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Old 03-01-2012, 10:29 PM   #29
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Anyone want to cyclo-polish both sides of their outer shell skins in the name of science?

I wonder what the outside skin temperatures register at the time the internal readings are taken?

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My take is, that clean aluminum does not radiat heat very well. It does conduct heat just fine. Painted, it radiates much better than if bare.
Aluminum can not radiate but a tiny portion of infrared wavelengths that another material would from the physics of aluminums molecular structure & spacing. Any coating (even left-over factory glue) mildew or even surface oxidation will defeat that and allow the IR to beam straight through.

I bought an aluminum-flake, ceramic hollow-sphere insulating paint as the final outside shells 'interior' paint - to top whatever goes on inbetween the outer skin and shell air space - probably on the roofs curve alone, and that is likely to aide heating season more than cooling season.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:46 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Wabbiteer View Post
Anyone want to cyclo-polish both sides of their outer shell skins in the name of science?

I wonder what the outside skin temperatures register at the time the internal readings are taken?



Aluminum can not radiate but a tiny portion of infrared wavelengths that another material would from the physics of aluminums molecular structure & spacing. Any coating (even left-over factory glue) mildew or even surface oxidation will defeat that and allow the IR to beam straight through.

I bought an aluminum-flake, ceramic hollow-sphere insulating paint as the final outside shells 'interior' paint - to top whatever goes on inbetween the outer skin and shell air space - probably on the roofs curve alone, and that is likely to aide heating season more than cooling season.
If you want to send a small sample along, I will incorerate it into my test.

As you state, aluminum conducts just fine, so to me, the ribs are a major source of heat transfer. I have yet to find a suitable barrier.
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Old 03-02-2012, 04:14 PM   #31
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This aluminum-leaf style paint has no mineral spirits or flammable solvents so it can ship priority mail - acrylic polymer with 45% metal and ceramic solids. Needs the metal to be oil-free, they don't call for primers, etc.

Send me an address via private messages, I'm 3 miles from the airport post office. I will try not to send you this head cold I'm fighting

~~~

I've been musing this going onto three years now - this spring I will need to make a choice... a rib-liner gasket review:

The biggest hitch with a gasket between ribs and liner is 'Gap Fastening' losing the metal-to-metal clamp, or decreasing the stretch tension of the pop-rivet anchoring liner firmly against the rib.

Softer materials will also show hole-filling tendencies, material creeps to the drilled hole if it isn't an interference fit already. Liner dimples around EVERY rivet where the gasket compressed would be unsightly and invite motion when the gasket further compresses over time.

On their own, aluminum pop rivets can/will loosen and lose their grip clamping force from vibration, SO INJECTING ANY silly extra play will start shearing whichever rivet happens to bind first and make the dreaded black-ring we see with out-of-balance running gear happen much easier.
~~~~

Anyhow...

I bought a length of .062" silicone sheet with a composition like solid forklift tires to use as the rib gasket - and thought I could get away with doubling up the rivets or somesuch but I don't see it happening - the silicone is too slick, no glues will bind to it so I can't tack it to the ribs. I did use it between the floor plywood & steel frame (punched holes in it so it would get anchored by adhesive) and floor has no squeaks and is hushed when walking on it.

Maybe just red rosin paper, the flexible roofing felt, welded to the ribs with a spray adhesive then coat it with the HSC?
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:56 AM   #32
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ceramic insulating paint

I thought I ask here since it's easier & might help others. I saw a thread talking about insulating paint. I'm not sure this is the right thread or section of the forum but you're talking about Airstreams and I have an all steel trailer. I was thinking about insulation and what I can do to make my trailer well insulated. I thought about painting the inside with ceramic insulating paint, then adding insulation. I don't know the right terms but when the wood is redone & the windows are removed & it's down to bare metal & the sub floor is down, just shoot the whole inside with this ceramic paint. I saw the video I posted and they used it on the outside of the building. Do you think it would work on the inside? If I used it on the outside under the paint color, how do you think that would work? I think the inside would be best. I can call the company & ask if no one knows & I'll ask the dealer before I do it. If it works you could also use it on the inside of an Airstream if you're doing a complete renovation I think.

Ceramic Insulation Paint: Denver Test Project:
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Old 03-09-2012, 08:27 AM   #33
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Silverwoman,

I have 5 gallons of HSC (hot surface coating, a ceramic insulation paint) that I may be willing to part with at a discount, since it won't work on the polished bare aluminum of my airstream.
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:39 AM   #34
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Silverwoman,

I have 5 gallons of HSC (hot surface coating, a ceramic insulation paint) that I may be willing to part with at a discount, since it won't work on the polished bare aluminum of my airstream.
Thank you, I"m not sure about it yet. My son said using it on the interior won't work and I need to find out if it can be used under body paint and if it is effective that way. It would be a great way to insulate the trailer better. In the video it's painted on the outside. I think I'm going with Sherwin Williams industrial enamel I can get in a custom color and a top coat. It's less expensive and it looks good and my son said repainting every several years is easy to do. So it's not an expensive paint job. I need to call SW back and ask them. And I'll call the ceramic paint company too.

Right now, I'm looking for a place or space to start working on it so I'm not going to be ready for a while but I'm so anxious to get started.
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Old 03-29-2012, 08:55 PM   #35
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If you want to send a small sample along, I will incorerate it into my test.

As you state, aluminum conducts just fine, so to me, the ribs are a major source of heat transfer. I have yet to find a suitable barrier.

Any further updates to this?????


Is this the paint? Attic Radiant Barrier Paint, Wall Vapor Retarder Coating Looks interesting....
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:05 PM   #36
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Argh! I have two gallons of that; took one to store & had it shaken (3X to get the aluminum into suspension) then went looking for a sample sized container to send to another forum member to test it...

I plead cold & flu plus first warm weather as my distraction to cause such dereliction of Duty. Oops.

Got scaffolding up and am patching roof, when the vulkem is out I'll be slathering roof rivets and interior seams - then will break out the paint...

I have a non-contact thermometer to test interior surfaces in sunshine - bare aged aluminum, polished aluminum, one & two layers of Attic Radiant Barrier Paint...

Again - apologies.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:31 PM   #37
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No apologies necessary We all know that anything related to Airstreams takes at least three times as long to complete as you think it will!
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:31 PM   #38
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Okay, any updates on this thread? Anyone done further testing? Or discover the perfect thermal break for the ribs?
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:58 PM   #39
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I am hopefully going to be painting the HSC on the interior skins in a couple of weeks. I will let you know how it turns out!
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:11 PM   #40
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Painting the outside of the skin white will help ALOT. Painting the inside won't do much and it might even hurt. White paint and aluminum reflect about the same amount of light but white paint radiates absorbed heat much better than bare aluminum. The problem with white roof paint is keeping it white. Bare aluminum on the inside would be a good thing because aluminum does not radiate heat well. A radiation barrier and insulation will give you the best insulation. Painting the inside surface is going to help prevent leaks but thermally it does not make much sense. White cool seal is good, any other color won’t be so good. They have aluminized cool seal as well and it is not good. You want a low absorptivity to emissivity ratio. White paint is something like .3 and Aluminum is 3.

http://www.solarmirror.com/fom/fom-serve/cache/43.html

NASA uses this same concept to control the temperature of spacecraft in orbit. I use to test various coatings and materials for changes in the absorptivity to emissivity ratio or alpha over e. White is what is used on the sun facing side and black on the dark side. The problem is that stuff collects on the white paint surfaces and raises the alpha over e ratio. So a white paint that turns brown over time could be a real problem in space.

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Old 02-10-2013, 05:16 PM   #41
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anyone rino liner top of airstream any color waterproof and will not slip
when walking on it.
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:00 PM   #42
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The problem with Rino liner or similar products is that if you have to repair something it is a mess to remove. It is also rather heavy.

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