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Old 10-01-2010, 10:37 AM   #1
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Types of Rivets

I know the Olympic rivets are preferred but I really need to do a patch this weekend - where I'm removing the antenna. I know I'm not going to get a shaver anyway.
I wanted to use a "closed end" rivet

or a "multi-grip"


as I've heard these are more weathertight, but I may have to use a standard pop-rivet because that's what is available around here.
Anyone see a problem with this? I'd seal em heavily and use a dab of parbond on top of the shank if that sounds ok.

I considered one big patch to cover the antenna hole and the little spot where cable went through, drilling new holes for all. Or would it be better to do two smaller patches and use the old holes that are there?
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Old 10-01-2010, 11:35 AM   #2
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A "Closed End" rivet will work, You should seal under the head when inserting, and once installed seal the shank opening so water doesn't collect in the cavity and create any freeze issues.



If you have a Fastenal location near by they may have what you need in stock.

Rivets | Fastenal


As for one patch, or two would work. I would typically use one as long as the holes are close together but its personal preference.

But who am I to say anything. I have a "For Rent" sign patch on the roof of the Avion that I put on over a year ago "Just to get us Home". Slapped it on with some vulkem and..... well let's just say that I haven't gotten around to....

Best of luck,

Kevin
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Old 10-01-2010, 11:39 AM   #3
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Wow thanks! Didn't know about Fastenal, they have 10 locations around me! I already have regular pop rivets, but I would love to use the closed end type.
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Old 10-01-2010, 02:12 PM   #4
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In a pinch, you can use what will hold. Some
caulk in the hole, under the rivet, and on top
of the rivet.

Rivet for holding...Caulk to stop water
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Old 03-19-2011, 03:25 AM   #5
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Rivets ????

Does anyone have some explanation for the difference between cherrymax rivets and other rivets. It would be nice to know. You have pop rivets, olympic rivets, blind fastener rivets, sealing rivets and closed end and bucked rivets etc etc. Ok so someone please make some sense out of all these options please so we can understand all the posibilities and uses..Thanks
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Old 03-19-2011, 06:44 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by filterman View Post
Does anyone have some explanation for the difference between cherrymax rivets and other rivets. It would be nice to know. You have pop rivets, olympic rivets, blind fastener rivets, sealing rivets and closed end and bucked rivets etc etc. Ok so someone please make some sense out of all these options please so we can understand all the posibilities and uses..Thanks
Hi filterman;
I am not aware that they are made with SS pull pin. I believe it is steel.
Other than that they have good seal. "Boatdoc"
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Old 03-19-2011, 09:22 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by filterman View Post
Does anyone have some explanation for the difference between cherrymax rivets and other rivets. It would be nice to know. You have pop rivets, olympic rivets, blind fastener rivets, sealing rivets and closed end and bucked rivets etc etc. Ok so someone please make some sense out of all these options please so we can understand all the posibilities and uses..Thanks
Go to this page...

Mc Master Carr ships anywhere and quickly too. The rivet in the first post might be only for demonstration purposes, but a structural rivet, as shown, actually breaks off right at the head not deep inside as shown. The head can actually be shaved like an olympic can, though not with same results. I have pretty much sworn off the use of olympic rivets at FTW due to the fact that they tend to leak rather easily. I cannot believe that some are still using them to replace panels. A closed end rivet looks just like a pop rivet but the mandrel is connected to the end and pulls it in. Mc Master Carr sells the closed end rivets also.
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Old 03-19-2011, 09:46 AM   #8
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Go to this page...

Mc Master Carr ships anywhere and quickly too. The rivet in the first post might be only for demonstration purposes, but a structural rivet, as shown, actually breaks off right at the head not deep inside as shown. The head can actually be shaved like an olympic can, though not with same results. I have pretty much sworn off the use of olympic rivets at FTW due to the fact that they tend to leak rather easily. I cannot believe that some are still using them to replace panels. A closed end rivet looks just like a pop rivet but the mandrel is connected to the end and pulls it in. Mc Master Carr sells the closed end rivets also.
& Olymics don't have anywhere near the shear strength or clamping force of the original solid (buck) rivets that hold the trailer together. I have seen the results of "panel movement" when scabbed on with olympics. They work, but not for structural applications.
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Old 03-20-2011, 02:35 PM   #9
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rivets

Ok so for the outter skins we would want to use bucked rivets only, is there no other option that is just as good, strenght wise and I see you can get titanium rivets on ebay would titanium be a better choice or an overkill? Ok so here is what I understand so far. Thanks everyone

Bucked rivets= outter skins and structural applications.
Multi grip or "closed end" or blind = inner panels and trim
Olympic = not the best choice
Titanium = ?

Closed end rivets seal.
POP and open end rivets are the weakest.
Multi grip rivest expand to hold in oversized or irregular holes.
Olypic or 'bulb type" are for brittle materials such as plastics and laminates.
Cherry max has steel pull pin?? Not shure but do we want steel , aluminum or Stainless pull pins. And what about the mandrels.
Is there a difference between Multi, closed and blind rivets?
Ok so what are the best rivets for interior? any recommendations for combinations or should they be all aluminum or aluminum rivet with ss pull pin??
If we are joining aluminum then we would want aluminum rivet with aluminum mandrel, correct. This would avoid galvanic corrosion but then what about the pull pin?
Structural or standard rivets?
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:20 PM   #10
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update to above post,ran out of time before.

rivets
Ok so for the outter skins we would want to use bucked rivets only, is there no other option that is just as good, strenght wise and I see you can get titanium rivets on ebay would titanium be a better choice or an overkill? Ok so here is what I understand so far. Thanks everyone

Bucked rivets= outter skins and structural applications.
Multi grip = inner panels and trim
Olympic = not the best choice
Titanium = ?

High strenght rivets are for structural.
Closed end rivets seal.
POP and open end rivets are the weakest.
Multi grip rivest expand to hold in oversized or irregular holes.
Olypic or 'bulb type" are for brittle materials such as plastics and laminates.
"Blind rivet" means you cant get to the backside.

Cherry max has steel pull pin?? Not shure but do we want steel , aluminum or Stainless pull pins. And what about the mandrels.

Ok so what are the best rivets for interior? any recommendations for combinations or should they be all aluminum or aluminum rivet with ss pull pin??
If we are joining aluminum then we would want aluminum rivet with aluminum mandrel, correct. This would avoid galvanic corrosion but then what about the pull pin?
Structural or standard rivets?
McMaster-Carr
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:31 PM   #11
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rivets
Ok so for the outter skins we would want to use bucked rivets only, is there no other option that is just as good, strenght wise and I see you can get titanium rivets on ebay would titanium be a better choice or an overkill? Ok so here is what I understand so far. Thanks everyone

Bucked rivets= outter skins and structural applications.
Multi grip = inner panels and trim
Olympic = not the best choice
Titanium = ?

High strenght rivets are for structural.
Closed end rivets seal.
POP and open end rivets are the weakest.
Multi grip rivest expand to hold in oversized or irregular holes.
Olypic or 'bulb type" are for brittle materials such as plastics and laminates.
"Blind rivet" means you cant get to the backside.

Cherry max has steel pull pin?? Not shure but do we want steel , aluminum or Stainless pull pins. And what about the mandrels.

Ok so what are the best rivets for interior? any recommendations for combinations or should they be all aluminum or aluminum rivet with ss pull pin??
If we are joining aluminum then we would want aluminum rivet with aluminum mandrel, correct. This would avoid galvanic corrosion but then what about the pull pin?
Structural or standard rivets?
McMaster-Carr
There are several "opinions" as to what rivet is best, for a typical application.

I would suggest that you call Airstream at 937-5966111 and ask them.

I think you will learn that they will tell you that "olympic" rivets are fine for the exterior, unless you gut the interior, and then you can use buck rivets, which of course are also cheaper.

Usually, people that have problems with the "olympics", don't really know how to properly install them as well as sealing them so they would never, "EVER" leak. Olympic rivets can be used to replace even an exterior roof panel, when used properly. We have done that for over 35 years, without a "SINGLE" leak.

Not big secrets, just proper workmanship, the right parts and tools.

Andy
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:42 PM   #12
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These trailers were put together with solid aluminum rivets on the outside for structural integrity & 1/8 aluminum pop rivets with aluminum mandrels for all of the interior skins. If a rivet has sheared off on the outside or you want to add a patch, use olympics with a dab of vulkem. No need to reinvent the wheel.
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Old 03-20-2011, 08:22 PM   #13
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rivet types

Thanks andy and colin I was wondering why not use high strength closed end rivets if they are stronger? Would you inpinge (dimple) the aluminum using them? Just wondering what would be the best to use as I dont mind spending a few extra dollars to have a better hold on the rivets. Thanks everyone.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:00 PM   #14
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Thanks andy and colin I was wondering why not use high strength closed end rivets if they are stronger? Would you inpinge (dimple) the aluminum using them? Just wondering what would be the best to use as I dont mind spending a few extra dollars to have a better hold on the rivets. Thanks everyone.
The regular soft buck rivets, are fine.

They have held the Airstream shells together for over 75 years.

Lack of proper running gear balance has been probably the great cause of sheared rivets on an Airstream.

For exterior replacement of sheet metal, the Olympics are perfectly fine. They were extremely tested in the early 70's by Caravanner Insurance Company, the old insurance division of Airstream, and found to more than adequately satisfactory to replace the buck rivets.

The soft buck rivets are used in production, since they are extremely cheap and do not need to be shaved, which saves a ton of labor. Shaving olympic rivets can take more time than installing them. The simple secret is to add a small bead of Vulkem sealer, underneath the rivet head, before it's inserted into the hole. Plus the cost of one Olympic rivet, would buy at least 100 buck rivets, if not more.

Some dealers, may down talk olympics so they can charge the owner and/or insurance company more money to gut part of the interior, so that they can install buck rivets.

If the Olympics did not do a good job, considering proper installation, Airstream would have outlawed them, back in 1971, when the Dupont explosive rivets went off the market.

Life being what it is, some folks have a problem using a rubber band.

Back then, Caravanner Insurance more than adequately proved the effectiveness of the Olympic rivets, since a few dealers insisted on using buck rivets, so that they could charge more money for the job, and would say that the Olympics were no good.

Almost sounds like that old myth has somewhat come back to the surface.

If the interior is going to be gutting anyway, then use the buck rivets. If not, use the Olympics, but with some Vulkem sealer behind the rivet heads.

Andy
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