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Old 05-27-2004, 03:17 PM   #15
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OK, so what is the sheets on the inside of the trailer on the walls. 2024?
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Old 05-27-2004, 05:04 PM   #16
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Read the link to aircraftspruce to see differences between materials. On my '61 all aluminum sheets are .032 2024-t3 Alclad.On newer trailers I believe all the sheet aluminum is 5052.
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Old 05-27-2004, 10:50 PM   #17
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I believe the 2024-X is strong and doesn't fatique and with the alclad is polishes up nice. 6060-x is weldable and heat treatable but I don't believe it would polish that well. I plan to use the annealed 6061-0 softer version because it would be easier to work with and as it ages it becomes "stiffer". I toured a plant today where they take scap aluminum and melt it and turn it into 6061-T6 for windows. To take it from 6061-0 to 6061-T6 they heat it for about 6hours at 400 degrees. That drives the oxygen out.
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Old 05-28-2004, 08:56 AM   #18
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Deep Sheet :If it were simple it wouldn't be so hard

decimal .025 and .032 sheeting
Which I call "two and a half one hundreths" and "three point two one hundreths" instead of "twenty five one thousanths" and " thirty two one thousanths" thick. Just to better visualize it in my feeble mind.

Now how many mil are those two?
That's a conversion I never wanted to think of again . So I didn't... til now.

And what happened to gauge? Isn't sheet metal (steel) referred to in gauge?
I used to think gauge had only to do with diameter as in wire or shot, but come to think of it I believe it refers to thickness of sheet as well.

Ain't nothin like a little confusion intrusion ...eh! ??
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Old 05-28-2004, 09:32 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaco

And what happened to gauge? Isn't sheet metal (steel) referred to in gauge?
I used to think gauge had only to do with diameter as in wire or shot, but come to think of it I believe it refers to thickness of sheet as well.

Ain't nothin like a little confusion intrusion ...eh! ??
Jaco,
I work in the architectural metals industry; sheet steel is always refered to in gauges 20 ga, 24 ga, aluminum in thickness .024, .050 etc. and just to cloud the issue copper sheet is in ounces, 16 oz, 20 oz.

Somwhere I have a link to a PDF that carries a conversion table and description as well as the various alloys. When I find it I will post it.

Aaron
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Old 05-28-2004, 09:43 AM   #20
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Info from aircraftspruce

1100 This grade is commercially pure aluminum. It is soft and ductile and has excellent workability. It is ideal for applications involving intricate forming because it work hardens more slowly than other alloys. It is the most weldable of aluminum alloys, by any method. It is non heat-treatable. It has excellent resistance to corrosion and is widely used in the chemical and food processing industries. It responds well to decorative finishes which make it suitable for giftware.

2011 This is the most free-machining of the common aluminum alloys. It also has excellent mechanical properties. Thus, it is widely used for automatic screw machine products in parts requiring extensive machining.

2014 & 2017 The 2017 alloy combines excellent machinability and high strength with the result that it is one of the most widely used alloys for automatic screw machine work. It is a tough, ductile alloy suitable for heavy-duty structural parts. Its strength is slightly less than that of 2014.

2024 This is one of the best known of the high strength aluminum alloys. With its high strength and excellent fatigue resistance, it is used to advantage on structures and parts where good strength-to-weight ratio is desired. It is readily machined to a high finish. It is readily formed in the annealed condition and may be subsequently heat treated. Arc or gas welding is generally not recommended, although this alloy may be spot, seam or flash welded. Since corrosion resistance is relatively low, 2024 is commonly used with an anodized finish or in clad form (“Alclad”) with a thin surface layer of high purity aluminum. Applications: aircraft structural components, aircraft fittings, hardware, truck wheels and parts for the transportation industry.

3003 This is the most widely used of all aluminum alloys. It is essentially commercially pure aluminum with the addition of manganese which increases the strength some 20% over the 1100 grade. Thus, it has all the excellent characteristics of 1100 with higher strength. It has excellent corrosion resistance. It has excellent workability and it may be deep drawn or spun, welded or brazed. It is non heat treatable. Applications: cooking utensils, decorative trim, awnings, siding, storage tanks, chemical equipment.

5005 This alloy is generally considered to be an improved version of 3003. It has the same general mechanical properties as 3003 but appears to stand up better in actual service. It is readily workable. It can be deep drawn or spun, welded or brazed. It has excellent corrosion resistance. It is non heat-treatable. It is well suited for anodizing and has less tendency to streak or discolor. Applications same as 3003.

5052 This is the highest strength alloy of the more common non heat-treatable grades. Fatigue strength is higher than most aluminum alloys.In addition this grade has particularly good resistance to marine atmosphere and salt water corrosion. It has excellent workability. It may be drawn or formed into intricate shapes and its slightly greater strength in the annealed condition minimizes tearing that occurs in 1100 and 3003. Applications: Used in a wide variety of applications from aircraft components to home appliances, marine and transportation industry parts, heavy duty cooking utensils and equipment for bulk processing of food.

5083 & 5086 For many years there has been a need for aluminum sheet and plate alloys that would offer, for high strength welded applications, several distinct benefits over such alloys as 5052 and 6061. Some of the benefits fabricators have been seeking are greater design efficiency, better welding characteristics, good forming properties, excellent resistance to corrosion and the same economy as in other non heat-treatable alloys. Metallurgical research has developed 5083 and 5086 as superior weldable alloys which fill these needs. Both alloys have virtually the same characteristics with 5083 having slightly higher mechanical properties due to the increased manganese content over 5086. Applications: unfired pressure vessels, missile containers, heavy-duty truck and trailer assemblies, boat hulls and superstructures.

6061 This is the least expensive and most versatile of the heat-treatable aluminum alloys. It has most of the good qualities of aluminum. It offers a range of good mechanical properties and good corrosion resistance. It can be fabricated by most of the commonly used techniques. In the annealed condition it has good workability. In the T4 condition fairly severe forming operations may be accomplished. The full T6 properties may be obtained by artificial aging. It is welded by all methods and can be furnace brazed. It is available in the clad form (“Alclad”) with a thin surface layer of high purity aluminum to improve both appearance and corrosion resistance. Applications: This grade is used for a wide variety of products and applications from truck bodies and frames to screw machine parts and structural components. 6061 is used where appearance and better corrosion resistance with good strength are required.

6063 This grade is commonly referred to as the architectural alloy. It was developed as an extrusion alloy with relatively high tensile properties, excellent finishing characteristics and a high degree of resistance to corrosion. This alloy is most often found in various interior and exterior architectural applications, such as windows, doors, store fronts and assorted trim items. It is the alloy best suited for anodizing applications - either plain or in a variety of colors.

7075 This is one of the highest strength aluminum alloys available. Its strength-to weight ratio is excellent and it is ideally used for highly stressed parts. It may be formed in the annealed condition and subsequently heat treated. Spot or flash welding can be used, although arc and gas welding are not recommended. It is available in the clad (“Alclad”) form to improve the corrosion resistance with the over-all high strength being only moderately affected. Applications: Used where highest strength is needed.

ALUMINUM ALLOY DESIGNATIONS

The aluminum industry uses a four-digit index system for the designation of its wrought aluminum alloys.



As outlined below, the first digit indicates the alloy group according to the major alloying elements.



1xxx Series



In this group. minimum aluminum content is 99%. and there is no major alloying element.



The second digit indicates modifications in impurity limits. If the second digit is zero, there is no special control on individual impurities. Digits 1 through 9, which are assigned consecutively as needed, indicate special control of one or more individual impurities.



The last two digits indicate specific minimum aluminum content. Although the absolute minimum aluminum content in this group is 99% the minimum for certain grades is higher than 99%, and the last two digits represent the hundredths of a per cent over 99.



Thus, 1030 would indicate 99.30% minimum aluminum. without special control on individual impurities. The designations 1130, 1230, 1330, etc.. indicate the same purity with special control on one or more impurities. Likewise. 1100 indicates minimum aluminum content of 99.00% with individual impurity control.



2xxx through 9xxx Series



The major alloying elements are indicated by the first digit, as follows:



2xxx Copper

3xxx Manganese

4xxx Silicon

5xxx Magnesium

6xxx Magnesium and silicon

7xxx Zinc

8xxx Other element

9xxx Unused series



The second digit indicates alloy modification. If the second digit is zero. it indicates the original alloy: digits 1 through 9, which are assigned consecutively, indicate alloy modifications. The last two digits have no special significance, serving only to identify the different alloys in the group.



Experimental Alloys



Experimental alloys are designated according to the four digit system, but they are prefixed by the letter X. The prefix is dropped when the alloy becomes standard. During development, and before they are designated as experimental, new alloys are identified by serial numbers assigned by their originators. Use of the serial number is discontinued when the X number is assigned.

ALUMINUM TEMPER DESIGNATIONS

Temper designations of wrought aluminum alloys consist of suffixes to the numeric alloy designations. For example, in 3003-H14, 3003 denotes the alloy and “H14” denotes the temper, or degree of hardness. The temper designation also reveals the method by which the hardness was obtained. Temper designations differ between non heat-treatable alloys and heat-treatable alloys. and their meanings are given below:

Non Heat-Treatable Alloys

The letter “H” is always followed by 2 or 3 digits. The first digit indicates the particular method used to obtain the temper. as follows:

— Hl means strain hardened only.

— H2 means strain hardened, then partially annealed.

— H3 means strain hardened, then stabilized.

The temper is indicated by the second digit as follows:

2 1/4 hard

4 I/2 hard

6 3/4 hard

8 full hard

9 extra hard

Added digits indicate modification of standard practice.

Heat-Treatable Alloys

-F As fabricated

-O Annealed

-T Heat treated

The letter “T” is always followed by one or more digits. These digits indicate the method used to produce the stable tempers, as follows:

-T3 Solution heat treated, then cold worked.

-T351 Solution heat treated, stress-relieved stretched, then cold worked.

-T36 Solution heat treated, then cold worked (controlled).

-T4 Solution heat treated, then naturally aged.

-T451 Solution heat treated, then stress relieved stretched.

-T5 Artificially aged only.

-T6 Solution heat treated, then artificially aged.

-T61 Solution heat treated (boiling water quench), then artificially aged.

-T651 Solution heat treated, stress-relieved stretched, then artificially aged (precipitation heat treatment).

-T652 Solution heat treated, stress relieved by compression. then artificially aged.

-T7 Solution heat treated, then stabilized.

-T8 Solution heat treated, cold worked, then artificially aged.


-T81 Solution heat treated, cold worked (controlled), then artificially aged.

-T851 Solution heat treated, cold worked, stress-relieved stretched, then artificially aged.

-T9 Solution heat treated, artificially aged, then cold worked.

-T10 Artificially aged, then cold worked.

Added digits indicate modification of standard practice.

COMPARISON OF MODERN & OLD SYSTEMS OF ALUMINUM ALLOY DESIGNATION

Although the old system of aluminum identification has been obsolete for many years, stock with the old markings is still occasionally found. The following comparison is presented as an aid in identifying such materials in terms of the modern system.

In the old system, alloy composition was indicated by a one- or two-digit number followed by the letter “S” to indicate that it was a wrought alloy, i.e., an alloy that could be shaped by rolling, drawing or forging. Any variation in the basic composition was indicated by a letter preceding the numerical alloy designation. For example, A17S was a modification of the basic alloy 17S. In modern terminology these two alloys are designated 2117S and 2017S, respectively. Temper was designated by a second letter: “O” for soft (annealed), “H”for strain hardness of non heat-treatable alloys, and “T”for hardness of heat-treatable alloys. Degree of hardness of non heat-treatable alloys was indicated by a fraction preceding the letter “H”. For example, 3S1/4H would be quarter-hard 3S alloy.

The following Table gives examples of the old and modern designations of some common aluminum alloys.



Modern System

1100

3003

3003-0

2014

2017

2117

2018

2218

2024T

5052

7075T6

Old System

2S

3S

3SO

14S

17S

A17S

18S

B18S

24ST

52S

75ST6


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Old 05-28-2004, 09:49 AM   #21
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wow - what a great post - think I understand it all now......

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Old 05-28-2004, 06:00 PM   #22
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WOW. Thank you for the info. We are getting ready to buy the stuff. If I line the middle "bed room" in copper, will that react to the aluminum?? Especially if I get really thin copper and apply it directly to the alum. walls and ceiling? Also I am looking for powder coated aluminum panels in an almond color. I know they were available years ago in the dallas area. But no more. Any ideas? silver suz
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Old 05-28-2004, 07:40 PM   #23
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I don't think I would apply copper directly to aluminum, especially in the salt air environment you are going to. The copper will look good, the aluminum underneath will corrode. I would probably be ok if you painted the aluminum. I don't think it will cause a failure, but the aluminum will decay into a powdery material that MAY compromise the bond between the aluminum and copper.
Doesn't matter how thin the copper is. Even copper foil will cause a galvanic corrosion couple.
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Old 05-28-2004, 08:14 PM   #24
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Thanks for the head's up. I wont do copper. I'm so sick now I dont think I could tolerate paint. The powder coated aluminum panels seem to be okay to others like me. But the only source I know is in New Hampshire.
It's crazy ,but I don't think I would be comfortable with the bed room being all aluminum. Bath ok, living area ok, but not the beds .Weird, I know. thanks again, suz
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Old 06-08-2004, 01:49 PM   #25
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Question Where to get 60.5" wide aluminum?

I took a look at the Airparts and Aircraft Spruce web sites. It looked to me like 48" wide was the widest that they sell. My 1973 belly pan is 60.5" wide. Does anyone know where to get aluminum that wide? Or are people replaceing with two strips?

Thanks,

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Old 06-29-2004, 04:04 PM   #26
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Need help in understanding this complex bit of info. We will be replacing/repairing a section of our underbelly after a Thetford valve replacement. I have called an Airplane rebuilder who indicated they carry the 6160 you talk about above, but thickness is more around the .040 area. They said the .025 would be "very thin". If .040 is all I can find, should I go w/that, or ???
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Old 06-29-2004, 04:37 PM   #27
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I think it depends on how the section is shaped. If it includes any bends it may be too thick to shape without heating. If it's a flat panel there won't be any problem. This material work hardens quickly and may crack if you try to bend it too often ot too much.
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Old 06-29-2004, 09:07 PM   #28
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Aluminum

Take apiece of what you cut off to some one that sells aluminum and ask them what thickness it is. I think .040 will be too thick and hard to work with, but not impossible. It will also cost more. .025 is in plentiful supply just do a search for it. Aircraft Spruce and Spec has it. It is thin, but all is does is cover up the bottom of the trailer.
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