Rear Belly Pan Removed

[monocoque]

Here's today's photos from removing the rear belly pan on my 1975 Ambassador. The stabilizer jack assemblies which were bolted to the frame and second cross-member were removed first. Note the section of rusted frame still bolted to the stabilizer. Also note the deteriorated places on the pan where the pan was in contact with the frame and/or crossmembers.

[uwe]

wow...
I am workong on a 1968 Ambassador, and the bellypan and frame came apart like new. Very little to no corrosion, and rust in only one place worth pursuing.
However, I have seen trailers newer than yours with worse corrosion.

[monocoque]

Here's a close up of where the second to last rearward crossmember and frame contacts the belly pan. Also check out the rear most crossmember. Completely rusted through. Today I removed the forward banana wraps and inspected the frame. It's not a pretty site up there either. It's beginning to convince me to replace the frame.

[uwe]

Take a close look at the main frame rails. Crossmembers and outriggers are easy to weld in, so long that the main frame is sound, or at least acceptable.
You can use 3inx5in rectangular tubing with 3/16 wall thickness for crossmembers. Nice and strong, perfect for making tank cavities, too.

[monocoque]

Uwe,

Would you call this frame acceptable? I would prefer that it be but the reality may be less than my liking! What do you think?

Todd

[drag'nwagon]

Originally Posted by monocoque

Uwe,

Would you call this frame acceptable? I would prefer that it be but the reality may be less than my liking! What do you think?

Todd

Todd,

In a word, NO! That frame is not acceptable. Keep moving forward and see how things are around the axles and toward the front. You have a great floor plan and a good size trailer, that is worth some work, but the pictures that you have posted look like you need to build a new frame. It looks like the salt air in Corpis has done a number on that trailer frame. The metal that is still there is most likely to thin to weld much to.

[monocoque]

Dave,

Thanks for your advise.

You might check out the http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...rot-39673.html thread where I posted a more photos and more detail about the condition around the axles.

But I'm beginning to reluctantly agree with you.

If I choose not do replace the frame...what do I do with the trailer would you think? Sell for scrap/parts? Send it back to it's former scuba diving life?

Todd

[Foiled Again]

Originally Posted by monocoque

Dave,

Thanks for your advise.

You might check out the http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...rot-39673.html thread where I posted a more photos and more detail about the condition around the axles.

But I'm beginning to reluctantly agree with you.

If I choose not do replace the frame...what do I do with the trailer would you think? Sell for scrap/parts? Send it back to it's former scuba diving life?

Todd

...says she, chiming in from a safe distance in the bleachers....
Go for it and do the "Full Monte". One I remember particularly had the frame built, a black and white checkered vinyl floor put on top of the new plywood, then the new frame was backed gently under the braced body, and it was fastened back together. I think that several people have been able to have welders make the frame for $1200 to $2000 - that and new axles - and structurally you've got a NEW Airstream. Of course I'm ignoring the plumbing and wiring, but many here can advise and help you with those. Come on, even if you put $15K into redoing this vintage unit it will still be a helluva lot cheaper than new (as I DO know from experience!).

Good luck whatever you decide - oh and if the body is in good shape, it's not a "parter" even if the frame is done for. (If you do sell it, advise the buyer to have it flatbedded out unless they are very near. The frame IS done.)

Paula

[monocoque]

Originally Posted by Foiled Again

...says she, chiming in from a safe distance in the bleachers....
Go for it and do the "Full Monte". One I remember particularly had the frame built, a black and white checkered vinyl floor put on top of the new plywood, then the new frame was backed gently under the braced body, and it was fastened back together. I think that several people have been able to have welders make the frame for $1200 to $2000 - that and new axles - and structurally you've got a NEW Airstream. Of course I'm ignoring the plumbing and wiring, but many here can advise and help you with those. Come on, even if you put $15K into redoing this vintage unit it will still be a helluva lot cheaper than new (as I DO know from experience!).

Good luck whatever you decide - oh and if the body is in good shape, it's not a "parter" even if the frame is done for. (If you do sell it, advise the buyer to have it flatbedded out unless they are very near. The frame IS done.)

Paula

Paula,

Thanks for the cheers from the bleachers!

Ahh and this is the first I've heard about the possible price tag on a new frame.

I'm seriously considering the "Full Monte" but still gathering data. I wonder about how to build a frame to support the shell? So I can drive the frame out.

Next step is to get a welder out to survey and make a bid.

Todd

[LI Pets]

Before you go off the deep end, consider using a sister piece(s) where the rot is.

I used 3/16" alum bent into a C channel to slip into the existing frame.

Used SS bolts, looks great and stronger than new without added weight.

[uwe]

The section of frame that I can see is completely defective, and needs to be replaced.
Best to drag out teh frame and build a new one on top of it.
I thelps if you level and brace the old frame, so it is perfectly straight before welding on the new metal on top of it.
When the new skeleton is finished, just set it aside and mount the axles etc. The old frame can then go to the scrap yard.
It helps if you can turn the frame over for welding, so that you don't have to weld upside down.

[monocoque]

Originally Posted by uwe

The section of frame that I can see is completely defective, and needs to be replaced.
Best to drag out teh frame and build a new one on top of it.
I thelps if you level and brace the old frame, so it is perfectly straight before welding on the new metal on top of it.
When the new skeleton is finished, just set it aside and mount the axles etc. The old frame can then go to the scrap yard.
It helps if you can turn the frame over for welding, so that you don't have to weld upside down.

Uwe,

Thanks. This gives me some idea of how to measure a new frame. How would you lift the shell?

Todd

[monocoque]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

Before you go off the deep end, consider using a sister piece(s) where the rot is.

I used 3/16" alum bent into a C channel to slip into the existing frame.

Used SS bolts, looks great and stronger than new without added weight.

Bob,

What is a "sister piece?" Do you mean bolting something like a "splint" or a sandwich around the damaged area? Any photos of what you did?

Todd

[uwe]

Originally Posted by monocoque

Uwe,

Thanks. This gives me some idea of how to measure a new frame. How would you lift the shell?

Todd

Yeah, there's that little issue...
Best to brace it internally to keep from twisting excessively, and then either put it on sawhorses, or hang it through windows, whichever works best and is safe for those working on, under, or near it. Youwill need 3-4 poins across the width of the shell to properly support it. It is about 25ft long, after all.

[LI Pets]

Not a sandwich just sistered next to the bad part, note the end flange bolting the the cross frames. It will hold an 800lb gorillia

[monocoque]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

Not a sandwich just sistered next to the bad part, note the end flange bolting the the cross frames. It will hold an 800lb gorillia

Bob,

Very nice. Both legs of the "C" channel are on either side of the old frame? Difficult to see from the photos. Looks more like an "L". I'm just trying to get an idea of how this works. Looks very neat.

Todd

[LI Pets]

It's a C channel length wise about 40 inches the tabs are welded on each end to the C channel shown on one end above the red jack stand.

So it is then thru bolted along the 40 inch length thru the old steel frame and again thru the end tabs into the steel cross frames.

Also the old steel was wire brushed and painted with POR-15 before hand.

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Now he says from under the bleachers...

Where do you folks live that a welder will build a new frame for $2000? I think that estimate is about half what it would be here. I needed some aluminum welded to repair a window frame that had a cracked miter. I was astounded at the hourly rates welders get. The cheapest guy I found here in central Maryland wanted $125 per hour plus materials. Even if you could handle heavy metal, cut it to the exact size, and weld perfect welds, do you think a new frame could be built in 16 hours. I realize the costs in Texas are lower than here, but even if a welder was half the cost as here, well, could it be done in 32 hours? I seriously doubt it. Sorry to pee on the campfire...
From what I see in those photos, your frame is shot. If the rear third is eaten up like that, there is no way the rest could be much better. That kind of rust does not come from a leaking skylight or window, that kind of rust comes from the salt ladened air it has spent it's life around. To fix her, you will need to do as Uwe has said and lift the shell off and roll that thing out. I saw a thread where someone down your way built an entirely new frame for the same reason as you. He built the new one on top of the original so he could copy it exactly. I do not think it would be in your best interest to sister, splice, or spline onto what you have now. I think a new frame can be done, but if money is an issue, do not even begin.
As a self preservation act, I do not retain and receipts from my project. My local RV center knows me well enough now that they do not even tell me the total. Ruby just smiles and asks for my card. She smiles and tells me, "I'll put the receipt in your folder honey, incase you need to make a return or exchange". Ignorance is bliss when it comes to how much I spend.