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06-01-2006, 10:45 AM
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#1
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1 Rivet Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 16
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Bellypan re-attaching
Good day all!
Can anyone point me to some threads on reattaching bellypans?
I'm not too sure how to proceed.
Should i use self tapping screws or what? It,s a bit of a blind process.
P.S.
How does one go about searching for whole phrases on the forums.
Thanks.
Eric...
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06-01-2006, 11:58 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1967 24' Tradewind
Alameda
, California
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,570
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Hello,
I'm going to reattach myself, eventually. I have a '67, too. I think they go on with rivets. I'm not quite there yet, but I'll be watching this post. Definitely do a belly pan search!
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06-01-2006, 12:42 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
1966 22' Safari
1979 30' Argosy
Armada
, Michigan
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 950
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Mine's all attached with rivets, the regular pop type. Are you putting NEW piece of metal on or just the old one? You could use a couple of sheet metal screws to hold it on at first while your getting the pop rivets in, but I would use them exclusively.
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06-01-2006, 01:36 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1959 26' Overlander
Putnam
, Connecticut
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,064
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I think you need to provide more information. Pictures help also. The edge goes under the shell edge and you use olympic rivets. Of course how you took it off may influence the size, ect. If it is just underneath then use rivets to attach it to the frame members and over lap seams and do a line of rivets on the overlap. Exactly what are you doing.
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06-01-2006, 04:17 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,280
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Hi Eric -- Bellypan aluminum is 0.025" and subject to either damage or corrosion. You might find the original is in rough shape in a few areas. I reattached some areas by cutting out little squares of 0.032" and using like a washer over the original bellypan and banana wrap. The only screws you'll be finding down there is if you have B.A.L stabilizers. Everything else is pop rivets -- not Olympics. Use 'Search' if you have any questions -- we rehashed pop rivets as recently as last weekend.
Removal of the old rivets may leave you with a hole a bit large for 1/8" pop rivets, so you'll want an assortment of 1/8" and 5/32" rivets in medium and long lengths. The frame may show rust problems. I'd recommend treating and coating accessible areas with Por-15 if you are doing a major belly-off or back on.
Ditto on requests for more info. Does the bellypan already off involve areas where propane piping penetrates the pan?
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06-01-2006, 11:33 PM
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#6
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1 Rivet Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 16
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Ok. Specifically; I want to know if there is a way to find the old rivet holes where the old bellypan was attached to the underside of the cross members.
I,m going to put the new marine grade plywood floor on and then attach foam insulation to the bottom of the floor between the cross members and then the new bellypan will go on. How do i find the old rivet holes to attach new ones through the new bellypan, or should i use self tapping stainless screws of some sort. I,m using stainless fasteners throught. Help!!
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06-02-2006, 08:55 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master
1979 30' Argosy
Havelock
, where we park it
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,652
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Eric, Don't worry about finding the old holes, just drill new ones. I used rivits with the large heads on them. Marvin
__________________
Marvin & Annie
Niki (fur baby)
1979 Argosy 30 (Costalotta)
WBCCI 10103
"Happiness is a warm Puppy" Charles Schulz
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06-02-2006, 09:56 AM
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#8
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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go to thread "new axis axle" posts 11 and 41-49 for belly pan info. Use the large head rivets from Vintage Trailer Supply to reattach the belly skin. You can see the "hole finders" I used to locate the holes along the perimeter.
For interior support between the frame, I installed treated 2x6 lumber so I could use screws there. I posted a note on the member who had the idea originally. I just didn't want to drill more holes in the already compromised frame cross members.
You can see in the above posts that since the frame is wider than 48", you'll have to piece the skin together from two pieces (or you can use a roofing roll--it's plenty wide, but 0.050 thick [I think]--find a salvage place that has partial rolls).
You don't have to seal the joints--unless you are replacing the skin under the tanks--the area is designed to breathe.
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06-02-2006, 10:39 AM
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#9
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Reinstall the underbelly aluminum with "Large head" 3/16" all aluminum pop rivets.
Then balance the running gear.
Andy
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06-02-2006, 02:32 PM
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#10
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1 Rivet Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 16
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Thanks for the replies!
The people on this forum are a true wealth of information!!
Eric...
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06-02-2006, 07:52 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happycampers
Don't worry about finding the old holes, just drill new ones.
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Can't say I agree with this. Why put more holes into your frame -- starting points for rust y'know, especially when it is a good idea to Por-15 the frame when you have bellypan off. Except in mid-sheet, it is very easy to drill holes in new sheet to match the previous frame hole exactly. Take a look at source info for the "12-inch clearance strap duplicator" in this thread. It is easier to explain visually, so the forums text falls short in that department. Let me just say that if you get one and need more help, then post back here and we'll help you out further. You just have to decide whether to buy the size for the #21 or the #30 twist drill (see thread link above). I really like Inland RV's short twist drills -- you can use them to drill out outer shell rivets without denting the inner skin.
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06-02-2006, 08:21 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
1967 24' Tradewind
Alameda
, California
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,570
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Oh thanks for that link, I've subscribed to that one now for sure, when belly pan time comes.
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06-02-2006, 10:43 PM
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#13
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2 Rivet Member
1969 27' Overlander
Colorado Springs
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 26
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What is a roofing roll? Where do you buy this?
Thanks
I trashed and discarded my 1969 ol Land yachct belly pan!
Dean
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06-03-2006, 06:20 AM
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#14
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Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,280
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I've read it in the Forums and can't speak with direct knowledge, but it's always been said that hardware store flashing (or roofing roll) is not a very high grade of aluminum and quite subject to corrosion. I do know that the frame spacing under the trailer works best with 4' wide sheet (even though the original bellypan was one piece). 5052-H32 is a grade commonly recommended -- though looking at the description on my grade link I don't know that you'd go wrong with 3003.
My first link is to Metal Supermarkets -- accessible to many throughout the country, though probably not great on prices. Talk to metal fabricators and other metal sources in your area to compare if you wish. I do know that the proper 0.025" thickness for bellypan is not commonly kept in stock and most of us won't use enough to make it worth their trouble. Therefore Metal Supermarkets becomes a better choice for many -- though even they may not stock 0.025". Phone ahead and have them get it in for you.
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06-03-2006, 10:30 AM
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#15
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Rivet Master
1973 23' Safari
1977 23' Safari
2018 25' Flying Cloud
Palmer Lake
, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,092
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I know the belly pan was 0.025, but what's wrong with using something thicker, particularly if it is available or priced right? It would weigh more and therefor put more stress on the area around the rivets, but it would be stronger. I wonder what the trade-off is? Under static conditions, no problem, but under vibration the added weight could make a bigger difference.
Roofing Roll is aluminium for making metal roofs. Don't know the width, but it's quite wide, maybe 80" (I wound up using two sheets of 4'x8' 5053--2024 is hard to come by unless you're near an airplane factory). The yard I went to is a combination "new" and "scrap" place--they told me about the roofing roll. I'm curious why it would be more susceptible to corrosion, seeing what it's intended use is.
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06-03-2006, 02:53 PM
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#16
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Rivet Master
1979 30' Argosy
Havelock
, where we park it
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,652
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Canoe stream, Good luck in finding all the holes in the frame through the aluminum, there isn't anything wrong with putting por 15 over them and drilling new ones. I don't know what this thing is with the thickness of the aluminum for the belly pan, it is just a cover. 1/64th + or - isn't going to matter. Some of you guys carry things to the extreme. It is just a trailer. Marvin
__________________
Marvin & Annie
Niki (fur baby)
1979 Argosy 30 (Costalotta)
WBCCI 10103
"Happiness is a warm Puppy" Charles Schulz
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06-03-2006, 04:32 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
I know the belly pan was 0.025, but what's wrong with using something thicker, particularly if it is available or priced right?
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Roger,
The only problem I've had is getting the initial bend in the belly wrap when using .032", 5052-H32.
I ended up using a piece of sewer tube to make a bending form. It makes a very nice, hard, bulletproof belly pan, but it is a LOT of work!
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06-03-2006, 04:45 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
1963 16' Bambi
1955 22' Flying Cloud
Yreka
, California
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markdoane
Roger,
The only problem I've had is getting the initial bend in the belly wrap when using .032", 5052-H32.
I ended up using a piece of sewer tube to make a bending form. It makes a very nice, hard, bulletproof belly pan, but it is a LOT of work!
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markdoane, thanks I'll add your idea to my list of construction techniques.
Don
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06-03-2006, 05:45 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happycampers
Canoe stream, Good luck in finding all the holes in the frame through the aluminum....
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Notta so bad when it is drop-dead simple to reuse the exact same holes (at sheet edges at least). I did develop a tedious method to reuse holes in mid-sheet, but imagine the flak I'd get... . Drilling a new hole dead onto a cross member mid-sheet is meticulous any-who. Potay-toes, Potah-toes. Readers will choose ... No polls please!
Quote:
Originally Posted by markdoane
The only problem I've had is getting the initial bend in the belly wrap when using .032", 5052-H32.
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I must give full credit to markdoane for sending me down the path of righteousness and informing the Forums of the strap duplicator. Marvin, it's okay if we leave this back at the Potay-toes, Potah-toes juncture...
Don (markdoane) does point out the difficulty of .032". That is what I did buy, rather than the .025". I agree with Zeppelinium that the weight penalty is negligible for using this as bellypan. I had to recreate side belly wrap but not the corner bananawrap like Don appears to have done. And yes, .032" is a pain in the a** to develop smooth bends and it looks like we used similar techniques. Hmm... Don and I live an hour apart, didn't communicate on technique, and yet evolutionary convergence did occur... Intelligent design anyone?
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06-03-2006, 07:03 PM
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#20
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Rivet Master
1979 30' Argosy
Havelock
, where we park it
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,652
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Hey Bob, Not a problem. I don't care if you want to do it the hard way. I was just telling the guy the easy way to do it. Go camping and have some fun. Marvin
__________________
Marvin & Annie
Niki (fur baby)
1979 Argosy 30 (Costalotta)
WBCCI 10103
"Happiness is a warm Puppy" Charles Schulz
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