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08-18-2007, 10:11 PM
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#1
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a.k.a. Ambassador Tim
1960 28' Ambassador
Northern
, California
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,921
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Bellypan installation
Today I decided to tackle the last couple of feet of bellypan I had to remove when I got the frame and floor fixed.
When I cut the old pan off I left enough edge to rivet replacement skin back so I didn't have to mess with pulling to much apart.
It went back pretty well. I noticed that originally AS did not seem to drill into the main frame rails to rivet the pan on. They only riveted it to other belly skin and the cross members.
I have a couple of places that would be tightened up nicely if I drilled into the frame rail and put a rivet in it. I know these frames are made of some pretty thin metal. Is that why its not a good idea? Don't want to comprimse the frame any thats for sure.
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08-18-2007, 10:28 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1971 21' Globetrotter
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Arvada
, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,527
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My 71 has holes in the frame rails for the belly pan about a foot apart if I remember correctly and I plan on using them again
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08-19-2007, 06:20 AM
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#3
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Rivet Master
1967 28' Ambassador
1963 19' Globetrotter
1970 29' Ambassador
Waukesha
, Wisconsin
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,180
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Hi Tim,
I removed the entire belly pan on my '67 Ambassador in two pieces by drilling out all the rivets, and having my wife pull the pan out the front end while I was underneath guiding the pieces out. There were a number of rivets into the main frame rails. My problem was that many of the small rivet heads had worn through the soft aluminum belly pan material. I've bought a couple bags of the large head rivets from VTS for the reinstall.
To answer your question... I certainly don't think adding a few rivet holes through the bottom flange of the main frame rails will adversely affect it's strength. From what I've seen on my frame, these members are much more likely to yield in bending than in shear, so you may want to keep the holes at least 6" away from where the frame bears on the rear axle.
One other thing that comes to mind... drill carefully so that you don't catch any wiring running along the frame rails.
I wish I could say that I'm as far along as you are... but I'm happy that you've forged the way for many of the rest of us and have generously documented the process.
Good luck, on your last little bits.
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08-19-2007, 07:27 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Durango
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 3,491
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The early 60's use a "c" frame rather than a box frame - I would be reluctant to drill too many holes - can't you tighten it up by more rivets in the skin?
Ken
__________________
1956 Flying Cloud
Founder :
Four Corners Unit
Albuquerque National Balloon Fiesta
Rally
Vintage Trailer Academy - Formerly the original
restoration rally
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08-19-2007, 09:52 AM
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#5
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a.k.a. Ambassador Tim
1960 28' Ambassador
Northern
, California
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,921
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Thanks guys.
There just happens to be a couple of places were the pan puzzle peices :-) land at the frame rails. The peice that I used to cover the grey water tank is one. Poor planning. I could have easily cut it a little longer.
The other is the area that runs past the rear most cross member then up the back side a few inches. That is attached the cross member, but the 17" or so that runs along the frame rail sags a little and could use a rivet or two.
I've been using those large flange aluminum rivets as well. Real nice.
My '60 Ambassador has a boxed in frame on the main rails. I don't know if its just because of its lengh or what, but thats how it is.
Thanks for the input!
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08-19-2007, 11:02 AM
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#6
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Rivet Master
1979 23' Safari
1954 29' Liner
Orange
, California
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,849
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Aren't there many 1/4" holes in the top of the frame where the plywood floor is bolted to the frame. What harm would a few 1/8" holes in the bottom of the frame cause?
Bill
__________________
Bill Kerfoot, WBCCI/VAC/CAC/El Camino Real Unit #5223
Just my personal opinion
1973 Dodge W200 PowerWagon, 1977 Lincoln Continental, 2014 Dodge Durango
1979 23' Safari, and 1954 29' Double Door Liner Orange, CA
https://billbethsblog.blogspot.com/
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08-19-2007, 11:20 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Durango
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 3,491
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The floor is only bolted to cross members as well.
__________________
1956 Flying Cloud
Founder :
Four Corners Unit
Albuquerque National Balloon Fiesta
Rally
Vintage Trailer Academy - Formerly the original
restoration rally
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08-19-2007, 12:24 PM
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#8
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1 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Hudson
, Florida
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7
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I believe we are going to have the same problem but need to know if the underbelly panels can be replaced wihout removing all of the pieces. I have a 1956 Silver Streak and the only piece that need to be replaced is the middle, It is completely missing. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Also has anyone put the aluminum on an english wheel to get the curve?
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08-19-2007, 12:25 PM
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#9
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1 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Hudson
, Florida
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7
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opps forgot to sign, sorry...
Rosie The Riveter
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08-19-2007, 03:13 PM
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#10
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2 Rivet Member
2006 28' Safari SE
Halifax
, Nova Scotia, CANADA
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 87
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It seems to me that it would make more sense for Airstream to SCREW the belly pan on to allow for easier access-using rivets here seems to be madness.
__________________
John
If you need to turn on your air conditioner,you've gone too far south!
2006 Safari SE 28W/LS,
2006 Silverado 2500HD/LT EC SB 4x4 Duramax/Allison,
Hensley Arrow , Honda EU2000i (propane),
160W Solar, 400W sinewave inverter,
3-stage smart charger, Xantrex battery monitor,
Sirius satelite radio
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08-19-2007, 03:18 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Durango
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 3,491
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John - I've used both - rivets are easy to drill out if you need to - On the 59 that I had, I used self drilling screws with big washers.
Rosie - I'm not sure you need an english wheel for the belly curve - when you say you have to replace the belly - is it just the bell or the curved piece too - got pictures??
Ken
__________________
1956 Flying Cloud
Founder :
Four Corners Unit
Albuquerque National Balloon Fiesta
Rally
Vintage Trailer Academy - Formerly the original
restoration rally
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08-19-2007, 05:01 PM
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#12
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1 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Hudson
, Florida
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7
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underbelly
Mostly it is just the middle flat piece but on the SS the next rivets up are on the side so if we end up replacing the front or back end behind the wheel the aluminum will have to be cut away or replaced in that case it have to be formed. Any Suggestions? I do have pictures but I am just learning how to navigate and I am not to savvy on to incorperate the pictures yet.
Rosie the Riveter
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08-19-2007, 05:47 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Durango
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 3,491
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What I did - if my explaination can make sense - is cut the aluminum underneath the belly wrap and then rivet along there. If its the flat section, you should be able to splice it in.
Ken
__________________
1956 Flying Cloud
Founder :
Four Corners Unit
Albuquerque National Balloon Fiesta
Rally
Vintage Trailer Academy - Formerly the original
restoration rally
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08-19-2007, 06:45 PM
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#14
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1 Rivet Member
1967 26' Overlander
Joelton
, Tennessee
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7
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fred Lieb
In general on the edges where it is rivited sheet to sheet you can not
get back up washers so in these places use "Olympic" rivits avialable
from VTS. They are expensive but really hold. We reciently had a wheel come loose and did a bunch of damage but the Olympics held!!
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08-19-2007, 09:59 PM
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#15
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a.k.a. Ambassador Tim
1960 28' Ambassador
Northern
, California
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,921
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So whats the verdict?
Can we drill into the frame rails?
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08-20-2007, 06:20 AM
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#16
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Rivet Master
1962 22' Safari
1957 22' Custom
1963 16' Bambi
Vacationland
, Maine
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 956
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Belly pan
Hi Tim,
Nice work so far. I have a 62' Safari and it had a few drill holes in the cross channels which I reused replacing rivets in critical places which really helped tighten up the metal. The cross channel is relatively thin as you know and easy to drill a few more holes and use the large belly pan rivets.
So my opinion is yes, you can drill in the cross channel.
Gary
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08-20-2007, 07:34 AM
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#17
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Durango
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 3,491
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My vote is no on the Frame rails - more not necessary than anything else.
__________________
1956 Flying Cloud
Founder :
Four Corners Unit
Albuquerque National Balloon Fiesta
Rally
Vintage Trailer Academy - Formerly the original
restoration rally
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08-20-2007, 07:42 AM
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#18
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Rivet Master
1976 Argosy 24
now being enjoyed by Heath and Mary in
, Vermont
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,432
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Yes Vote
Safari:
We are using stainless steel screws all the way, cross members and frame rails.
Phil, who has worked at a leading truck body builder for over twenty years says that, in his experience, rivets “wear through”.
That was the case with my old belly pan.
I'd use short screws and be careful about wiring.
Sergei
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08-20-2007, 08:10 AM
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#19
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Rivet Master
1967 28' Ambassador
1963 19' Globetrotter
1970 29' Ambassador
Waukesha
, Wisconsin
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Safari Tim
So whats the verdict?
Can we drill into the frame rails?
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Based on my 20 years of detailing Structural & Misc Steel, I'd say you'll have no problems with drilling the few small holes you'll need to secure the belly pan to the frame.
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08-20-2007, 08:59 AM
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#20
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Rivet Master
1967 28' Ambassador
1963 19' Globetrotter
1970 29' Ambassador
Waukesha
, Wisconsin
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe
Phil, who has worked at a leading truck body builder for over twenty years says that, in his experience, rivets “wear through”.
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I concur based on what found under my 40 year old A/S.
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