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02-14-2011, 06:46 PM
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#1
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Restorations done right
Commercial Member
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
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Even a Pro needs advice
here is my issue.
Two of the studs on this "Sovereign" have broken off. Any suggestions on how to go about repairing this? I thought about cutting a thin rod and epoxying it on. Not too sure about the strength though. Any thoughts?
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02-14-2011, 06:51 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
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Frank,
If welding new studs is out of the question, I have seen the body shop next door use a 2-part adhesive from a dual tube gun, run thru a mixing nozzle that has awesome bonding capabilities. They use it to actually bond car roofs to the frame instead of welding.
I know 3M makes this type of adhesives. They are $$$$ but well worth it.
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
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02-14-2011, 06:54 PM
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#3
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Site Team
1974 31' Sovereign
Ottawa
, ON
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 11,219
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Frank,
Any idea what it's made of? Not pot metal, is it?
How about a nice, strong two-part epoxy to fasten a replacement stud on with? It's not going to bear any real weight, so that might do it, wouldn't you agree?
[Edit] Lewster beat me to the draw
__________________
“Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.” ...John Wayne...........................
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02-14-2011, 07:22 PM
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#4
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on the hunt
Currently Looking...
riverton
, Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 373
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agree with lewster some of the Adhesives they use now of days are just as strong as wielding
I know a guy that owns a body shop if i can get by there I will ask him what he would suggest useing
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02-14-2011, 07:35 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,669
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I've had good luck with JB Weld on a variety of castings with good long term success like cracked cooling jackets on engine blocks. I even used it on a casting flaw on a carburetor bowl. Never leaked again. Works well on non-high stress metal applications. May not be a forever fix, but I'd bet it'll last several years.
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02-14-2011, 07:37 PM
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#6
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Moderator
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground
, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,255
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I vote for JB Weld also, particularly since it's a part that isn't going to get all that much stress on it once it's mounted.
__________________
Stephanie
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02-14-2011, 08:46 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,280
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I see the two broken off areas. How do the studs engage when attached through the skin? Can you increase the diameter a bit? Do you have access to the inside of the outer skin?
'Tooth' (roughening) on the surface to be bonded will be important with epoxy. Don't try to dovetail -- that would weaken the lettering and not be very effective IMO. Carbide square-edged straight-handpiece dental burs should work in a Dremel -- I'd think 1557 or 1558 would be good (or 35 or 37) -- really scar it up! (prolly available if you could talk a local dental lab out of one... Can you tell my "pro" background?) The key word is straight handpiece. Newer Dremels changed the chuck so you'd have to buy larger diameter shaft tools from Dremel. Older Dremels can take dental straight handpiece shafts.
[OTOH -- the 110 cutter here looks a lot like a dental 35/37 bur and would be ideal.]
As a function of force per unit area, you could increase bond strength by broadening the attachment surface -- glass or use some such matrix. Mats I've seen for boatbuilding are a bit coarse for this application -- but I think that's the right direction. Not all fiberglass is compatible with epoxy. I'd really wonder if you could get enough area to re-use the original shaft.
For the shaft I'd wonder about using a material that is naturally compatible with epoxy -- a flyrod solid, resin-bonded, male component for an internal ferrule? [the dense gray rod between the two white dots in the second image here]
Not all epoxies are waterproof. I keep some boatbuilding epoxy around. Guess I could figure out a couple small container -- cuz you only need a little bit.
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02-14-2011, 08:56 PM
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#8
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3 Rivet Member
1965 17' Caravel
Birmingham
, Alabama
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 180
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Frank,
If you really want to fix this so you can depend on it, take it to a machine shop. Drill and countersink the break site for a #4 or smaller flat head screw. Drill and tap the post then assemble.
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02-14-2011, 09:06 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
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Frank,
Another light just went on.
3M VHB tape! I use it to mount brackets for solar panels to the smooth metal or fiberglass roofs of motor homes and Airstreams and they travel down the road and we have not lost one yet!
You can remove the remaining posts, smooth the back of the emblem with grinding, then sanding, clean very well with alcohol and apply the VHB tape, rolling over it to activate the adhesive. Then cut to shape with a new Xacto blade and you are ready to re-apply to the trailer.
Again, clean and prep the surface with alcohol and then apply the emblem. Be sure you have it where you want it as this stuff does not come off easily! Press to activate the adhesive and surface tape it in place for 24 hours. Once the adhesive in the VHB tape has cured, you will have one difficult time to try to remove it!
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
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02-14-2011, 09:12 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewster
Frank,
Another light just went on.
3M VHB tape! I use it to mount brackets for solar panels to the smooth metal or fiberglass roofs of motor homes and Airstreams and they travel down the road and we have not lost one yet!
You can remove the remaining posts, smooth the back of the emblem with grinding, then sanding, clean very well with alcohol and apply the VHB tape, rolling over it to activate the adhesive. Then cut to shape with a new Xacto blade and you are ready to re-apply to the trailer.
Again, clean and prep the surface with alcohol and then apply the emblem. Be sure you have it where you want it as this stuff does not come off easily! Press to activate the adhesive and surface tape it in place for 24 hours. Once the adhesive in the VHB tape has cured, you will have one difficult time to try to remove it!
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Ah, that's it. I think those emblems are pot metal...other than roughening it up and epoxying, much more "machining", I'm afraid wouldn't work. I like the adhesive tape idea!
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02-15-2011, 12:27 AM
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#11
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Rivet Master
1978 31' Excella 500
Genoa
, Nevada
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,554
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Two original posts and glue, what more could you ask for other than a new?
__________________
I admit to being powerless over housecleaning and social niceities
Airforums 22655 and now, WBCCI 22655
NevadaGeo
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02-15-2011, 02:56 AM
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#12
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Restorations done right
Commercial Member
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
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I am often humbled by the vast amounts of help I find on this forum. Thank you everyone.
Lewster, Where can I find this tape?
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02-15-2011, 04:38 AM
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#13
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4 Rivet Member
Waters
, Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 321
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3m also makes a two way tape that body shops use to stick on weatherstrips,and emblems.. call your local body shop supply house
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02-15-2011, 04:45 AM
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#14
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3 Rivet Member
1966 26' Overlander
1963 24' Tradewind
1990 34' Limited
Cape Coral
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 227
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I had the same issue with the Tradewind emblem on my trailer. I would also suggest the 3M sticky tape as described above. Mine has been on for two years and there is no indication that it wants to let loose. It can be found at any auto parts store and at the big box stores. It has a red plastic release tape on it so it does stand out on the display shelf. This picture shows how it looks.
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02-15-2011, 04:51 AM
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#15
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 62overlander
I am often humbled by the vast amounts of help I find on this forum. Thank you everyone.
Lewster, Where can I find this tape?
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Last roll I bought was very expensive at about $75, but it is a very large roll. Probably way more than you will ever need.
PM me your address and I'll send you a couple of feet.
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
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02-15-2011, 05:18 AM
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#16
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Rivet Master
1958 26' Overlander
Mesa
, Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,742
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I vote for the VHB tape, too. At Lewster's recommendation I ordered some for my Solar Panel installation and was amazed at how strong it is.
However, I wouldn't bother repairing the broken posts. I would simply use the tape to attach it to the skin. I'm going to use the VHB tape to attach my new emblems to my '58. Not going to bother with riveting them on.
__________________
1958 Overlander
2011 Wolf Creek 850N TC
2011 Ford F-250 Crewcab (6.2L), 3.73RE
WBCCI #5661/AIR #5661/TAC # AZ-6
4CU 1st VP
My '58 Overlander Restoration and Travel Blog:
https://mellomikesairstreams.blogspot.com/
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02-15-2011, 06:06 AM
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#17
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Retired.
Currently Looking...
.
, At Large
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,276
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I use the VHB tape to stick emblems back on trailers. One word of caution: Make sure the emblem is where you want it before pressing it into place. Once it's on, it'll never come off in one piece.
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02-15-2011, 06:29 AM
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#18
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2 Rivet Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 77
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Before you give up on the welding idea, you may want to consider something like this There are a couple of brand variations of this but it may work for what you're trying to do.
Another thought is to use good old rivets! May not be 100% authentic, but certainly in keeping with the theme.
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02-15-2011, 08:05 AM
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#19
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3 Rivet Member
1972 27' Overlander
Venice
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 180
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Considering how many cars today are "glued" together, I would trust a modern glue more than I would trust trying to weld the studs on. You still have 2 good studs for alignment so you are good to go.
Doug
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02-15-2011, 08:30 AM
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#20
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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tape
Trimmed, double sided tape, is cheap, available in small quantities, easy to use, and lasts a long time.
Glue should not be used, because if you ever wanted to remove the name plate again, it would more than likely break up into several pieces.
Andy
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