Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-09-2004, 09:41 AM   #29
3 Rivet Member
 
dinoburb's Avatar
 
1982 34' Limited
Tidewater , Virginia
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 186
The alodine is a critical step in aluminum painting. Bare, dry, raw aluminum will immediatly begin to form a defensive barrier over itself when exposed to air (corrosion). Paint doesn't stick well to the corrosion coating and will peel in short order. Steel does a similar thing (rust) but that takes longer and can be painted without a chemical conversion coating. Alodine is a chemical designed to provide a paintable protective coating. It blocks aluminum's automatic proclivity to corrode for a short period of time.

Hope this helps,
__________________

__________________
Old trucks and old trailers . . . a comfortable combination!
AIR 1446
W5CDR
A-6E All Weather Attack Driver, BUFF
USN Aircraft Maintenance Officer, Ret.
'91 Suburban R-2500 w/BBC
'78 Honda GL-1000
'72 Triumph T-100R Daytona
dinoburb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2004, 10:44 AM   #30
Rivet Master
 
Bob Thompson's Avatar
 
Corpus Christi , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 936
Images: 67
Yes, it does help. We're on the same page! I pulled the plug on the relationship with Ted the PPG man. He was dropping the ball and I have a short patience level for people who don't give appropriate attention to the project at hand. In turn, I have contacted Sherwin Williams in San Antonio for a proposal to provide the Sherwin Williams Jetglo, compatible epoxy primer, Alodine 1001 (or equivalent), and the Alumiprep #33 (or equivalent) and I have talked to an auto collision repair company about shooting the paint. So far, lots of questions, not many answers. But, Paul at Sherwin Williams was going to get right on the paint proposal. And Monday, George from Collision Management will prepare an estimate for shooting the paint.
__________________

Bob Thompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2004, 11:14 AM   #31
4 Rivet Member
 
jaco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 279
Lightbulb

Bob I appreciated your post above regarding Alcoa and other sealants.
May I suggest that you duplicate it (pix and all) and post a dupe at the following thread.
http://www.airforums.com/forum...ead.php?t=7626
Caulking & Sealants (Vulkem & More) Thread # 7626

If you choose to do so could you give a more detailed description of what is on the Alcoa tube lable.i.e. stock # or sku codes etc.
I have hoped to find a spec sheet on the stuff. No luck.

Could you give me an idea of the viscosity say as compared to Elmers White Glue, or some well known liquid. i.e. thicker, thinner, about the same.

I have had no luck in finding the Alcoa product data on the web thru google etc.
There must be a source in Texas! Dallas Houston SanAntone or somewhere for the actual product..


Thanks
jaco



jaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2004, 08:38 PM   #32
3 Rivet Member
 
dinoburb's Avatar
 
1982 34' Limited
Tidewater , Virginia
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 186
Bob,

Just a note on 'Ted the PPG' man. Sorry it took so long to respond to his statement about 'oil' surfacing. 'Taint so. Aluminum when dry immediatly begins to corrode, which is a self-protection mode for the metal. It is the corrosion that causes failed paint work. The surface must be properly prep'd as you are planning to do. Additionally, never mix systems. If it's Alumigrip then it's alumagrip all the way. Every manufacturer has their own specific chemistry that has been tested and proven. Mixing chemistries is a sure fire way to failure.

PolyU paint is flexible and long lasting. However, it is also a very poisonous paint which requires a full paint suit with supplied air and a enclosed hangar (booth) to contain the overspray. EPA is not very happy with polyu. HVLP is the preferred method of delivery and a good HVLP turbine spray system is about $800 and up.

I would talk to the local business jet paint shop about what they use on the jet acft they paint and where they obtain it.

Again, sorry for the late reply, hope this helps,
__________________
Old trucks and old trailers . . . a comfortable combination!
AIR 1446
W5CDR
A-6E All Weather Attack Driver, BUFF
USN Aircraft Maintenance Officer, Ret.
'91 Suburban R-2500 w/BBC
'78 Honda GL-1000
'72 Triumph T-100R Daytona
dinoburb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2004, 07:55 PM   #33
Rivet Master
 
Bob Thompson's Avatar
 
Corpus Christi , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 936
Images: 67
One step forward, two steps back. I got 2 proposals to paint the trailer today. One from Collision Management for $2700. They didn't even take time to look at the trailer, to look at the sanding and prep work that has been done, or to look at how much area was to be painted. Seemed like they could have aleast driven over 10 blocks to look at it. The 2nd proposal came from Rodrigez Auto Body. They sent two people over. Proposal amount $5500. And they wouldn't be able to offer a warranty because I had sanded the aluminum down to bare metal. Ha Ha Ha Haaaaaaaa! Here we call that the suntan discount! Its kind of like the Baptist Discount which is 15% over retail, except it is double retail!!! And they didn't even see the Lexus coupe in the garage. I figured it would only cost me $4950 if I pulled the trailer 1463 miles to Andy and put myself up in a motel for a week while the work was being done. Tomorrow I should get a 3rd proposal, from a guy who paints 18 wheelers and hot rods? At least he knew about aluminum. He is proposing using Imron in two or 3 coats instead of all the rest. His reasoning, Imron is ultimately more durable, and by the time you get all the rest done, you've spent about the same amount of money.

I called Aero Performance in Fort Worth to see about Sherwin Williams Jetglo. Bad news, it is not available in metallics! If you want metallics, you would need to use S-W Acryglo an acrylic urethane paint. So.. if we're back to acrylic urethanes, I can get those here.

On a more positive note, I removed the twin beds and pulled up the carpet in the back. Parts of the floor were soppy wet.....but, the plywood is solid and intact. It shows some signs of mildew, but no outright wood rot. I'll be able to dry it out then flood it with wood preservative. This is good news!
Bob Thompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2004, 09:02 PM   #34
Rivet Master
 
Tarheel's Avatar
 
2001 34' Limited S/O
Moyock , North Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,010
Images: 21
Andy you ( Inland RV) and CANAM are the only ones that I have heard of that have a history of painting Airsteams. Both of you are a long ways from the North Carolina coast. Is there anyone on this side of the Mississippi that has a decent track record for painting Airstreams that you would recommend? I know the Ruth boys do a good job on clearcoat as well as Jackson center, but I am not aware of either of them using a painting process.
__________________
Keep the shiny side up.
WBCCI # 348
Past Region 3 President
Past President Tidewater Unit 111
Rick Bell in "Silverbell"
Tarheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2004, 09:30 AM   #35
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Bob Thompson.

One week allowance to do a complete metallc silver paint job, "properly," is enough time to remove the exterior components, strip the coach, and perhaps, be finished with the "correct" sanding.

We require a minimum of 4 to 6 weeks for a complete paint job.

You should revise your $4950.00 cost to bring the coach to us. Regular gasoline in California is now priced at $2.20 per gallon.

Electrical suppliers are not the only "BIG" corporations that gouge.

On the other hand, only California has a "free sign up" for workmans comp.
You can get many years of free money, because you injured your shoulders pushing a pencil on a single piece of paper. But, league bowling is not considered a violation of that compensation, or for that matter, moving a house full of furniture.



Tarheel.

Most professional spray painters do not want to take on a job of painting an Airstream trailer or motorhome. Their reason is usually they don't know how to deal with aluminum. A no gaurantee job, should be adequate warning.

I do not know of anyone that I could recommend to do a complete metallic silver, east of the Mississippi.

Should you find someone that feels they can do a good job, ask them to tell you step by step, how they will do it. That usually separates the bee's from the wanta bee's.

A basic price of $170.00 per foot is a fair price, for a complete color paint job, plus any graphics. Things like awning removal, fixing dings and dents, are all extra.

Andy

Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2004, 01:29 PM   #36
Rivet Master
 
Tarheel's Avatar
 
2001 34' Limited S/O
Moyock , North Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,010
Images: 21
Thanks Andy, I have only talked with a few outside the Airstream world and they pretty much agree with what you have said. Why isn't inland rv inland? That would make life easier for me. Rick
__________________
Keep the shiny side up.
WBCCI # 348
Past Region 3 President
Past President Tidewater Unit 111
Rick Bell in "Silverbell"
Tarheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2004, 09:37 PM   #37
Rivet Master
 
Bob Thompson's Avatar
 
Corpus Christi , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 936
Images: 67
Update: Tony the Hot Rod painter gave me a proposal of $2950. I asked him what made it so high and he said he bills himself at $48/hour even to sand the trailer. I guess he meant sanding the epoxy primer after it gases overnight. Must take about 3 days to sand it! I'm almost to the point where enough is enough. By that I mean, painting isn't rocket science! I've just about worked out enough of the bugs to say I'll paint it myself.

My biggest problem is having an enclosed area to do the work. I can purchase a fabric carport on Ebay and use it as a temporary enclosure while I do the painting. I could paint the trailer in 4 sections, each side, the front, and the rear. Then just dispose of the carport when I'm done or sell it for cheap at a flea market. I have a brand new DeVilbiss Finish Line paint gun I bought two years ago when I was building a new shower for my SOB trailer and needed to shoot some Imron.

If I do the painting, I'll likely go the acrylic urethane paint/clearcoat route in lieu of the Imron route. For Imron, I'd need an air fed full face respirator which I don't have. I called Aircraft Spruce today to chech on the Randolph airplane finishing system. Bad news, Randolph was recently sold and the new owners are relocating the plant. No Randolph components will be available for at least 2 months.

I'll decide one way or the other by Monday morning. The choice seems to be Collision Management at $2700 or doing it myself.
Bob Thompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2004, 11:44 AM   #38
Rivet Master
 
Bob Thompson's Avatar
 
Corpus Christi , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 936
Images: 67
Its been a busy few days since the last posting, so here goes. I've decided to paint the trailer myself. Since that decision, almost everything has been positive. The plan was to purchase a fabric carport to use as a mobile paintbooth to control overspray and contamination of the finished surface, then do the painting in 4 steps, each side and each end of the trailer being a single step. I purchased an 18 x 20 fabric canopy off ebay for $225 delivered. If it is not quite tall enough when it arrives, I will purchase longer pieces of steel conduit for legs from Home Depot to get the needed height. Then, I purchased (3)-10 x 20 tarps for side curtains at a total cost of about $65 shipped. So far, thats roughly $300 spent.

Next, I had to decide whether to use a single stage system like Imron, or use a 2 stage Base Coat/Clear Coat (bc/cc) until I came across this:
Single or 2 stage (Dick Gutman)
There are pros & cons to each system...
Two stage paint should be used when spraying metallic paint unless you're trying to make it match an original old type of look but, for even the best painters, it can be difficult to spray single stage metallic evenly.
When you spray paint on a car you are doing two things... 1. You're covering the car with color and 2. You are applying the paint so that it has a smooth gloss. When you use single stage you are doing both of these tasks with one type of material. When you do a paint job using two stage paint you are applying the covering color with the base coat and the smooth gloss with the clear coat. It can be easier for the novice to break the job into separate steps than to try to do everything with a single coating material but then again you are spraying longer and have more oppurtunity to make mistakes.

When repairs need to be made the two stage paint can be better because you can blend the base then clear the entire panel which usually results in a better repair. Blending single stage can be a real challenge and panel painting single stage can result in a mismatch.


Ok, it will be 2 stage!

Today, I went by the Auto Paint Co. and got a price of about $540 for: 1 gal ea. Dupont 225 Alum. Cleaner/226 Alum. Conditioner, 2 gal. kit of Epoxy Primer, 2 gal. kit of Chromabase silver paint with reducer, and 1 gal of Sherwin Williams clearcoat.

Similarly, I went by PPG and got a price of $380 for 1 gal Alumiprep 533, 1 gal Alodyne 501, 1 gal. Epoxy Base Primer with reducer and 2 qts. hardener, 2 gal. kit of silver acrylic urethane and reducer, and MC161 clearcoat and 2 qts Hardener.

So, if my math is somewhat correct, the portable paint booth and the paint materials come to roughly $850. Add another $150 for sand paper, masking materials, cleaning solvents, etc. and it comes to around $1000. If there isn't quite enough base coat, add in another say $180 and the total is around $1200. Works for me!

So far, my only concern is the epoxy primer. I think I read somewhere where it needs to be a chromate epoxy primer. I'll do a bit more research!
Bob Thompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2004, 04:13 AM   #39
nds
3 Rivet Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 240
This is a very interesting read and, with the cost (having it done) and time involved in polishing, a real serious alternative. It appears that it would be the cheaper route to go, overall, when considering the continuous polishing each or every other year to keep that high gloss look.

I'm assuming that after the initial cost of the paint job, that regular washing and waxing would keep the high gloss appearance without all the work, time, and expense involved in continuing to polish every year or every other year.
nds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2004, 09:03 AM   #40
Rivet Master
 
Astrodokk's Avatar
 
1992 30' Airstream 30
Santa Rosa , Northern California wine country
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 618
Images: 4
Bob,
Before you get the chromate, read my post above and then Andy's a few later. He mentioned that mine had been done with chromate and it was the wrong thing to do. I actually have no idea what was used, since I bought it that way, yet I know it didn't work.
Just a thought before you pay. Maybe my stuff was a different primer. Good luck. I think you must have large ball bearings to take this job on, albeit the price is right!
__________________
1992 Airstream 300LE, rear queen, Banks Power!
Astrodokk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2004, 10:08 AM   #41
Rivet Master
 
Bob Thompson's Avatar
 
Corpus Christi , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 936
Images: 67
The words of caution are well received. My understanding was your vehicle had received zinc chromate primer prior to any other primer and/or topcoat and the bond to the zinc chromate primer broke down. My concern had to do with the grey epoxy primer. It seemed I read somewhere that the most effective epoxy primer has a less toxic chromate mixed into the epoxy primer. It takes the place of the zinc chromate product.

Anyway, I called the PPG store today and discussed the primers. Yesterday, I was given a choice between the low end primer and the upper end primer and for budget reasons chose the low end. But when the total package price came in so low(actually $366 out the door), it occured to me to switch to the upper end primer, given the nature of what is being painted, and the expected lifespan of the trailer. The upper end primer adds about $80 to the total. So today, I switched to the upper end primer. And... I gave PPG the contract so they could order the Alumiprep and Alodyne. I will be using PPG products from start to finish. It wasn't price which made the decision; perhaps it was the perception of quality from the PPG package. I'm confident the Dupont products would have performed equally well, its just the PPG base coat advertising mentioned something about being especially easy to achieve great results for metalics (not that the Dupont wasn't).

In the next day or two, the materials will be in and maybe I can get started by the weekend. Its very warm here, temperature in low-mid 80's by afternoon, and humid, but it is going to get hotter soon so I would like to get the painting done before the real heat of summer sets in. I'm expecting it to take about 8 easy days to paint the trailer, figuring one day to mask and to prep and shoot primer, let gas overnight, sand and shoot topcoat and clearcoat the 2nd day for each of the 4 sections to be painted.

Update: the fabric carport which will be my mobile paint booth arrived today. I'll put it together tomorrow to check size. Now I'm waiting for the extra side curtain tarps to arrive.
Update 2: I put portions of the carport together today and discovered if I switch the rafters for the columns, it makes a carport that is nearly 14' wide and 11' tall in the center. Its ideal for painting the trailer in sections. Shifting the carport to one side, where all the work space is given to one side, it gives a work space of about 5.5 feet width. Its plenty for painting.
Bob Thompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2004, 09:41 PM   #42
Rivet Master
 
Bob Thompson's Avatar
 
Corpus Christi , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 936
Images: 67
Today was a day for gathering the needed materials for the project. First stop was PPG. There, I purchased: 1 gal. MC161 Clearcoat & 2 qts hardner, 1 gal. Omni AU Basecoat & reducer, 1 gal DP50LF epoxy primer & 1 gal catalyst & 1 qt. reducer, 1 gal. DX533 Aluminum cleaner, and 1 gal. DX503 Alodyne. The total came to $543. Then I purchased masking tape, paper mask materials, plastic sheet masking materials, mixing pitcher, wet/dry sandpaper, a tyvek paint suit, tack cloths, lacquer thinner for clean-up, and 1 qt. of denatured alcohol for a total of $64. So, to date, I've spent about $290 for the mobile paint booth and side curtains, and $607 for paint and masking materials for a total of $897.

It is likely I will need another gallon of Basecoat paint and reducer before it is all completed. That would add about $126 to the total, bringing it to $1022. Not bad! As for color, I wanted a light colored silver, so I went with a silver metallic #3822 GM used for wheels in the early 90's.

First order of business is to completely educate myself on the safe handling and cautionary use of all the mentioned materials. These materials must be treated with respect and be used in a safe and proper way. I've used a bit of Imron, Awlgrip, and Deltron, but this is new stuff so it's time to step up!

The weather is not good for painting, very humid, for the next couple days, so the time will be spent reading and re-reading the product literature.
__________________

Bob Thompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
25 ft, 'old width' Excella weight? Fogducker 1994 - 1996 Excella 10 03-09-2009 04:16 AM
wanted 1986 to 1999 25' or 27' Excella Ron Davis 1993 Excella 1000 3 10-18-2004 07:15 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.