Rally Etiquette

InsideOut · 08-06-2006, 09:11 PM

Okay, so I need some advice here. I know, I know, nobody likes rules...but, sometimes you gotta have some.

What would Wally (or you) do?

Here's the scenario - You have planned a rally and it is 'sold out' at a limited number of campsites which was published from the get-go. This is primarily because that's all the number of sites the campground would allow you to have for the group. The campground wants the remaining sites for other non-rally travelers, which is totally understood...it's their business, to give us more they would risk turning business away. After the rally "sold out" a waiting list was started, of which 7-8 additional trailers have been added to the rally as people dropped out...which always happens, even up to the last day. Everybody on the waiting list has been allowed to attend due to cancellations.

The rally fee (in addition to the 2-night minimum campsite fee) is $22 per person. This covers: 2 Dinners (including some adult beverages - oh my!!!

), 2 Breakfasts, 1 lunch, decorations and a rally goodie bag which has rally nametags, a customized Open House Sign, a rally magnet, a rally plaque and other goodies and door prizes. Quite the bargin for a 6 day/5 night rally. Oh yeah and kids under 9 are free.

So here's the dilemma...you KNOW there are a couple of people planning on crashing the rally...there always is. They have made their own reservations with the campground directly. The planning committee has always welcomed the public and other campers to the Open House & no cost presentations, and plans on doing the same at this rally.

Now, we all like to think of ourselves as a "the more the merrier" kinda folks...and the committee is made up of very normal, nice, non-rules oriented folks...typical VAC'rs not traditional old-time WBCCI'rs. But if "some" are allowed to attend at no-rally-fee-cost, what would make anybody want to sign up for a rally that has orgainizational and catering expenses per person? What would make anybody want to host a rally if they had to come out of pocket for everything on top of their time to accomodate these rally-crashers??? We all know how much time & effort goes into planning something a large rally. Even the Planning Committee pays for their entire rally fee, "no perks and no profit"...why should a rally-crasher get the rally for free? When a paid rally member shows up for dinner and a party-crasher has basically eaten their meal because there isn't enough to go around, it gets ugly! (This has happened before) And it's usually those involved in the planning that go without.

So, any advice???

Shari

68 Overlander · 08-06-2006, 09:28 PM

There is nothing you can do unless you want to be confrontational. We did that totally unintentionally years ago and when we realized we were amonst a rally, we joined the WBCCI and their chapter on the spot and donated money just to prove we were not crashing but I know what you mean. This was long before we knew about the VAC and remember thinking, mayonnaise a lot of Airstreams here this weekend.

InsideOut · 08-06-2006, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 68 Overlander

We did that totally unintentionally years ago and when we realized we were amonst a rally, we joined the WBCCI and their chapter on the spot and donated money just to prove we were not crashing but I know what you mean.

I understand if it's by happenstance...what I'm talking about is the intentional crasher. The person who says, I don't want to play by the rules, the rules don't apply to me...or the habitual rally hopper.

I have observed one rally-hopper in particular repeatedly show up to club rallies, ALWAYS un-registered, not a club member, always really, really hungry when it comes to potlucks and meals (to a point of taking filled plates back to their trailer for tomorrow), and yet never seems to contribute anything. They know exactly what they are doing.

How would you handle that?

Shari

GT1963 · 08-07-2006, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InsideOut

I have observed one rally-hopper in particular repeatedly show up to club rallies, ALWAYS un-registered, not a club member, always really, really hungry when it comes to potlucks and meals (to a point of taking filled plates back to their trailer for tomorrow), and yet never seems to contribute anything. They know exactly what they are doing.

How would you handle that?

Shari

Chop them off at their knees.

As many agree - there are those who are happening by - and most can tell those type of sincere and honest people!!!!

And then there are those - who are the "users" in all walks of life. See a good thing and have no concience and go about their whole lives like that!

If you were abrupt with them or said get lost - it would not phase them as they take their chance at each opportunity.

It does not just happen at Rallys either. I remember being at a check in desk - and happened to overhear a conversation - "no we don't want to pay $19.00 for full hook ups - we are just stopping in to park and leave first thing in the morning. They were given a number - the next site to ours. They paid nadda - and what was the first thing they did - hook up to water and then hook up their sewer hose. The sad thing about this situation - is that I never said anything to them or to the owners!!! That is what is sad about our society - we the rule goers just will not rock the boat - and yet if we ever find ourselves in a situation - I bet their would be people out their that "do the barking" pretty quick.....The other sad thing - we were embarrased to see that it was a fellow "Countryman"!!!

Another known fact is if these type of people are confronted - they usually back down pretty quick - and if they don't you know that as soon as one person confronts them the rest of your group will be with you in a flash.

It is not fair that one or two should ruin it for many.

So the big answer to your question Shari - is we either live with it - or we do something about it - there is no in between.

Always keeping in mind - the inocent as they truly will be very apologetic and offer up the funds or bring their own meal or wait for the tour to be over so they can join in the socializing....

I still voted D - as the fees should be paid like all others - if they don't then they are not in for the long ride. In cases where pre-head count determined the catered dinner then explain this to the person to bring their own food (or have a back up to run out and pick up the main course) or refund the protion of the Rally fee that relates to the pre-catered portion. Same with the tours if there are not enough tickets or spots then explain that the rally is a first come first serve - or pre-registered.

But for those who are just pulling the chains to begin with sell them a one way ticket back to their trailer.

Foiled Again · 08-07-2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT6921

Chop them off at their knees.

The wonderful thing about good rally organizers is that they are ORGANIZED. Some people just aren't - or just don't know any better. And then there are the people whose arms shrink up to their pits whenever the check is presented. They go through life with the attitude that "if you really didn't want me here, you'd tell me."

Of course THEY never learned a sense of good manners or shame in their own homes, and take advantage of yours.

Reaction? You'll be burned up about it for weeks before and weeks after if you say nothing. So SAY SOMETHING. Something like, "We would certainly welcome you NEXT TIME IF YOU REGISTER AND PAY IN ADVANCE."

I'm personally a "last minute Louise" type BUT I expect to pay a premium for being a disorganized type. I got my new A/S less than a week before the Cherry Blossom Rally, and because I had no time to cook, I brought a CASE of Champagne.

Participants - welcome them.
Chronic Moochers - Convince them to find a cold welcome ELSEWHERE.

Paula Ford

**Action** · 08-07-2006, 04:23 PM

I am going to agree with Paula and repeat myself. Either way would be acceptable. Show up late (or with out RSVPing) and pay the freight. (Or throw your own party/dinner/slide show. Or send in the RSVP and do it straight up.

As Paula points out the sense of good manners or shame would drive me and I know others it has no bearing.

As to the purpose of the thread Shari, since it will be one or two people that end up being the cop or "bad guy" or the bank. May be put it up to the organizing committee. Such that, do you want a cop or do you want to pay? Have that Q answered in consenses by the committe. Some how the 2nd choice of redistributing the wealth is not my gig. The surcharge route would be totally acceptable in my opinion no matter which side of the reservation I choose to be on.

The rest of the association needs to understand that if they aren't bank rolling someone's meals for a week that someone needs to be the bad guy. And no one likes that guy. However the association needs to back up that guy, cause no one wants to do that job.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

2airishuman · 08-07-2006, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InsideOut

I understand if it's by happenstance...what I'm talking about is the intentional crasher.

The person who says, I don't want to play by the rules, the rules don't apply to me...or the habitual rally hopper.

I have observed one rally-hopper in particular repeatedly show up to club rallies, ALWAYS un-registered, not a club member, always really, really hungry when it comes to potlucks and meals (to a point of taking filled plates back to their trailer for tomorrow), and yet never seems to contribute anything. They know exactly what they are doing.

How would you handle that?

Shari

ok now you're calling 'em hoppers.....i take that personally!

what i find interesting is your keen sense of observation...

how does one start out with the intent to watch who is eating and how much?

interesting really......

2air'

Pahaska · 08-07-2006, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

how does one start out with the intent to watch who is eating and how much?

interesting really......

2air'

Believe me, if you are responsible for feeding a group, whether it be a potluck, a host-prepared meal, or a catered meal, you notice. Lots of other folks will notice as well.

Personally, I like the idea of bracelets, just like a music festival. Pre-registered attendees get non-removable bracelets. If food supplies warrent, non-pre-registered guests can pay for a bracelet on the spot. If food supplies are limited, late comers are simply out of luck.

I am going to suggest the bracelet idea for the 2007 Texas Vintage Rally. With an expected 100 rigs and at lest one catered meal, we will have to set up some controls. We certainly will not recognize everyone by sight. I fully expect that some non-pre-registered folks will appear.

2airishuman · 08-07-2006, 11:03 PM

i'm still laughing at the poll options...
seems you need a 'rally sheriff-bad guy'

hey instead of the meal fee,
how about just hire me,
i saw great examples

so i'm trained now...
2 be a great bad guy...
it's easy with the wbcci training program
offered at this years international !
treating people badly was an art form.
and i'm a quick learner.

cheers
2air'

TwinkytheKid · 08-06-2006, 09:32 PM

I might want to come to the campground during your rally (with trailer, of course). Since I have delicate stomache, and since I haven't registered, would you mind if I brought my own supper? If I did you wouldn't have to pay more for food, and I could still join you.
If that won't work, how about making a donation to cover the cost of the food, so you don't get stuck paying for my meal?
I just thought of something else. You know who is coming. Why not have assigned seats with place cards? No name card, no food?

InsideOut · 08-06-2006, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinkytheKid

I might want to come to the campground during your rally (with trailer, of course). Since I have delicate stomache, and since I haven't registered, would you mind if I brought my own supper? If I did you wouldn't have to pay more for food, and I could still join you.
If that won't work, how about making a donation to cover the cost of the food, so you don't get stuck paying for my meal?
I just thought of something else. You know who is coming. Why not have assigned seats with place cards? No name card, no food?

Of course we always try to be accomodating to special needs. As a courtesy, I would hope someone in that circumstance would let the planners know ahead of time so they would know what to expect and plan accordingly.

Shari

2airishuman · 08-07-2006, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InsideOut

I would hope someone in that circumstance would let the planners know ahead of time so they would know what to expect and plan accordingly.

This is NOT a Denver Unit issue, it's any rally...WBCCI, VAC, Forum, ???

Shari

well shari i did let the planners know i had a reservation....
BECAUSE i wanted them to know i would be in the park...
not to mooch food.

any time some one declares.......
"this is not a (insert chapter) issue".....

it is exactly a "insert chapter" issue......

come on, you brought it up, it's your unit, so just own up to the issue.
that's not a bad thing really...and it's honest.
you folks aren't stupid...
did you really need a poll?
if so, the unit leadership is in trouble...

now looking at it from another POSITIVE perspective.....

if ya know people are coming who aren't 'official' why not...
-contact them and offer the rally package
-contact them and encourage vac affiliate membership
-contact them and explain the rally cost issues
-contact them and explain what they can or cannot attend?
-contact them period!

i completely understand the limited number of sites given to VAC,

so why not ENCOURAGE folks who are on the waiting list to get their own spots and EXPAND the rally? wouldn't that mean more total airstreamers?

well.....here's why.

the dcvac is on the hook for slots,
they know cancellations will happen,
they want a waiting list to fill the cancellations
so they aren't on the hook for slots anymore...

so who are the REAL DEADBEATS?
the >10% who cancelled?
or the folks who want to come so much, they secure their own site?

now that i think of it,
why isn't your poll about what to do with the "PEOPLE WHO CANCEL"

perhaps they should STILL pay the rally fee...22$ ???
i'll bet it is much easier to spot someone who "cancels" habitually...

i can assure you that had ANYONE with dcvac contacted me and asked...

would you like the 'rally package'....meals, drinks, prizes...for XXamount.

i would have paid for it gladly just to support the local unit...

and i don't even WANT your catered food!

cheers
2air'

Janis Timlick · 08-06-2006, 09:36 PM

Welcome the rally-crashers and sell them tickets without the camping fee (since they paid on their own). NO surcharge. Everyone should be willing to pay for food. Do people actually go without food? I always seem to attend things that have way too much food. Someone must be forgetting to throw one in the pot for that unexpected guest.

InsideOut · 08-06-2006, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janis Timlick

Welcome the rally-crashers and sell them tickets without the camping fee (since they paid on their own). NO surcharge.

Of course, we wouldn't double charge on the camping fee. But, why not add a surcharge, the planning committee is inconvienenced, why shouldn't the drop-in be? A lot of "events" are say $20 pre-registered/$25 at the door? How is this any different? What incentive would there be to signing up ahead of time? They obviously knew they were coming ahead of time...the campground sells out regularly, so if you don't have a reservation ahead of time, you don't get a site.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janis Timlick

Everyone should be willing to pay for food. Do people actually go without food? I always seem to attend things that have way too much food. Someone must be forgetting to throw one in the pot for that unexpected guest.

We have actually run out of food at caterered meals...the caterer was serving so it was portion controlled and we had padded the headcount by 10%. No, we didn't forget to through one in for the pot...we threw 10 in! There were several known rally-crashers in attendance, and a couple of planning people went without, as we always eat last.

How much "overhead" is enough to accomodate drop-ins? How much would you be willing to pay? Why penalize the rally attendees by charging extra to cover the extra meals...for the non-planners? At $10 pp for a dinner, we're talking about $120 to cover an extra 10% headcount. So every registered person should have to pay and extra dollar per meal??? I don't think so...

I'm not picking on you Janis, I'm just trying to understand the points you brought up and I've been struggling with for some time now.

Shari