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Old 04-30-2016, 09:21 AM   #15
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Thanks for the link. It explained it much better than I did. I will report back when I get the rings. I had wondered why AS recommends the multi step lug nut torquing routine. With most vehicles, you check them once after the initial torque. AS recommends a multistep process. I have 2 boats and both trailers have hub centric wheels. All my Chevy trucks have been hub centric. My Ford truck was hub centric. How much trouble could it be for AS to do it as well?
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Old 04-30-2016, 09:37 AM   #16
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My dad used to own a very old utility trailer, probably from the late 40s or early 50s. And it used wheels and hubs that needed to be aligned very, very carefully. The lug nuts were very simple ones, not much more than regular hardware store nuts, and there was no hub to align anything. It was trying to get them on just right.

Those were the old days. Some somewhat more modern hubs have a very tight fit inside the wheel center, but the real difference is in the lug nuts. Today's are called "cone seat" nuts -- and I mean "today" to mean at least back to 60's. They are conically shaped on the wheel side so that, when tight (and tightened carefully), they lock the wheel into the center. The effect is that a tight fit between hub and wheel is rendered unnecessary.





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Old 04-30-2016, 10:05 AM   #17
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Lugs do a poor job of resisting sheer forces. Read the link posted on previous page for a clear explanation.
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Old 04-30-2016, 10:25 AM   #18
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That may be so, but it hasn't stopped manufacturers from employing them, including Dexter and the other axle makers.

Indeed, the MG factory went whole hog on it. Rather than designing the hub and wheel to fit together, they used these lugs and redesigned the wheel for aesthetics (and strength). There's a good inch of space between hub and edge of the hole in the wheel. And a very small hole in the wheel with a teeny-tiny hubcap! And still holding strong and without slippage after all these years.


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Lugs do a poor job of resisting sheer forces. Read the link posted on previous page for a clear explanation.
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Old 04-30-2016, 06:29 PM   #19
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If you are referring to the infamous MG from England, this is the first time I have heard anyone using them as an example of how things should be done!
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Old 04-30-2016, 08:08 PM   #20
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Yep, the infamous MG of England! Known for fun electrics (a Lucas kit is available to refill the wires with OEM smoke) and the special anti-rust system (sometimes called "oil leaks" by those not in the know).

But NOT known for balance issues!

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If you are referring to the infamous MG from England, this is the first time I have heard anyone using them as an example of how things should be done!
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Old 04-30-2016, 08:10 PM   #21
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The strength of a 1/2" SAE grade 5 bolt in shear is at least 10000 lbs. There are six of them holding each wheel on. So long as the wheel and lug nuts are compatible, there is nothing wrong with either hub or lug centric setups

Note that the side loads due to cornering actually place more strain on the
lugs than the vertical weight of the trailer, since the latter is shared among all the lugs while during cornering the top or bottom lugs handle much more of the load.

Anyone using a spin balancer needs to understand which type they're dealing with so that the wheel gets balanced about the same center as it will have on the vehicle.

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Old 04-30-2016, 08:38 PM   #22
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That being the case, maybe the MG is a very good case in point. Four lugs per wheel -- and i drive, ah, well, double the recommended speed or higher through the many curves in the mountains between here and Taos.
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...
Note that the side loads due to cornering actually place more strain on the
lugs than the vertical weight of the trailer, since the latter is shared among all the lugs while during cornering the top or bottom lugs handle much more of the load.
...

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Old 05-01-2016, 01:31 AM   #23
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Lucas was also known as the "Prince of Darkness"... Using the positive as ground was certainly an interesting experiment over the years.
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Old 05-01-2016, 10:29 AM   #24
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To tell the truth, I don't see a whole lot of difference between vintage MG maintenance and vintage Airstream maintenance. They're simple machines with simple designs that can be fixed at home. Things break, and those things can be replaced or repaired at home. Parts are readily available in both cases, including lug nuts!! Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. (Wish I could say the same for our car and truck! The Honda, for instance, has a dead computer for airbags, remotes, etc. No replacement available. The only maintenance I do at home on either of them any more is oil changes. Duh.)

Oh, and that positive ground experiment? An easy conversion that many owners do themselves. For the last 12 years of production, MGs were all negative ground anyway.


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Lucas was also known as the "Prince of Darkness"... Using the positive as ground was certainly an interesting experiment over the years.
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Old 05-02-2016, 04:12 PM   #25
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Some of the things done in the RV industry are done because that's the way they have always been done. Other times it's just the industry builds in lower volume and there isn't much consumer demand for running gear upgrades.

Airstream builds a high end product. However that product takes axles and wheels from outside vendors. (Not like the OEM automotive industry that builds they own axles and wheels) Since the RV axle vendor makes axles for travel trailers, horse trailers, hay wagons, farm equipment the usage is extremely diverse. And a farmer doesn't care much if the axle can sustain highway speeds so many times it comes down to cost.

And the RV buyer just wants to go camping. They don't care that much for the ride, heck they are even in the ride! So building a least expensive part that does the job and has low warranty claims is the goal.

Heck disc brakes (on all 4 wheels now) as mentioned above has been an automotive industry standard on nearly all vehicles in the US for decades. And the US was slow to adopt disc brakes. RVs have disc brakes as an exception. The RV industry is very slow to adopt to new technology mostly because of demand (or lack there of) and economics. Since I don't work for Airstream, it is my opinion as to why this is done ....... to answer your question.


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Old 05-03-2016, 04:15 AM   #26
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Some RV manufacturers are making disc brakes an option and one can even get the Tuson ABS disc brake system for a trailer.
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Old 05-03-2016, 09:25 AM   #27
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Lucas was also known as the "Prince of Darkness"... Using the positive as ground was certainly an interesting experiment over the years.

It has been stated that positive ground is superior against corrosion, and there was a time when many makes were positive ground, but GM being the major player in America and elsewhere was dedicated to negative ground...

I cant say if the positive ground is actually better against corrosion, but it has been said....


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Old 05-03-2016, 09:35 AM   #28
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The Honda, for instance, has a dead computer for airbags, remotes, etc. No replacement available. The only maintenance I do at home on either of them any more is oil changes. Duh.)

In twenty years there will be very very few thirty year old vehicles. The lifespan of modern vehicles will coincide with the lifespan of the wire insulation (which is not what it used to be) and availability of assorted electronic components.


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