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Old 07-24-2006, 08:12 PM   #43
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1960 24' Tradewind
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Torque

I just had a 2006 34' 3 axle come in for work, I checked the torque on all six wheels, between 90 and 100 all the way around. This unit came from Ohio to Missouri and to SoCal, I did ask the driver if he checked the lug nuts during or at the start of the transport, his answer was no, he's just a transporter. This unit has Kodiak disc and Aluminum rims. This just a bit of documentation I thought some might find informational.

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Old 07-24-2006, 10:42 PM   #44
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Hello everyone,
I looked at the rotor in the blog and in the first rotor photo of the rear disc
being installed ,the pad friction part of the disc certainly looks dark ,and not
shiny ,and the second pic with the broken studs the hub looks silvercolored
but the friction pad area does not ,nor is it shiny .Now doubt about those studs being too hot ,its right there in the photo .I did a large boat trailer
brake and bearing service ,looking at the studs today and look just fine
no discoloration ,normal color , those studs just do not turn color ,and
it is not normal .Any of us here that have had our wheels off our coaches
that do our own service ,would surely notice if the wheel studs were
dicolored .Only high heat can turn metal bluish brown ,a loose wheel indeed
breaks the studs off ,but geez all of the studs on all the four wheels?
The blog reads about a steel wheel (spare) on the drivers side ,kind of
incomplete on that part ,Those broken studs need a structural analysis to
check the strength of the metal now ,as opposed to a new replacement .
and the hardness or lack of .I did email Rich and hope he can provide some
more info .

Scott
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Old 07-24-2006, 10:46 PM   #45
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Scott,

If you go back a few days on the Blog, you will understand the steel wheel. Rich picked up a drywall screw and has been running on the spare until he purchased a new tire. I think he has two new tires and is waiting for the new wheel to arrive at the VAC rally in Colorado. Are you going there?

Bill
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Old 07-24-2006, 11:20 PM   #46
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Thanks Bill for the info on that steel wheel ,I could be wrong then about all four wheels ? I hope so .On the colorado trip ,I had to cancel and believe me
I am really dissapointed ,you can't imagine ,but things happen ,so next year.
I love the colorado landscape ,old mining towns ,steam trains ,you name it .
You folks that will be there can get the info from Rich on his dillema and
anymore news and have a great time as well .

Scott
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Old 07-24-2006, 11:34 PM   #47
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Scott,

I think you have an email from Rich with some more detail. He believes that the problem is completely over torqued studs which stretched, weakened and then allowed them to snap.

Too bad about Colorado, I know that there are some folks from our unit going.

Bill
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Old 07-24-2006, 11:40 PM   #48
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I go check it out ,thanks bill.

Scott
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Old 07-24-2006, 11:56 PM   #49
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hello to everyone,
I just read an email from Rich on his troubles ,he says the studs look discolored on the photo only and look new in person ,kinda gold in color
and there is some grease on the studs ,says the photo fools you and he agreed that in the pic they look discolored ie bluish etc. He has went 300
miles and so far all is well ,had another shop check the brakes and such
all is ok .He figures overtorqed studs .I was glad to hear from him today.
I hope the saga is over for him and his family.The pic though looks pretty
compelling ,I can see the dark grease ,but that was not the area I was concerned about and it sure looks discolored ,BUT so far all is good for them
and on down the road .Between you all and me I feel uneasy about the
whole deal ,just never seen that happen before as it all did.All those studs just popping off ,wheels rolling down ravines ,whew .

Scott
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Old 07-25-2006, 12:48 AM   #50
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Hello all,
I went back to the blog to really look over the "last wheel lost "and read the blog concerning that wheel ,Richs blog says that "that one "had many thousands of miles and was last retorqed in may when the disc brakes were installed,as he thought it would have been the one he worked on the previouse week ,as in the rear wheel that came off ,so thats strange ,who then used an impact wrench on that wheel ,as that is not what he said,
also he found three of the wheels lug nuts were loose.more importantly is you Never Grease Studs ,the wheel lugs can come loose! Well ,still some mystery
to this scenario . hmmm.... the mindful thought continues.


Scott
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Old 07-25-2006, 10:37 AM   #51
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Not Limited to disk brakes

A friend with a 2-year-old 31 Classic Limited just had to replace most of his studs. He had taken the trailer to a local trailer place to have the tires rotated a few weeks earlier. They apparently used air wrenches to reinstall the wheels.

When the wheels were later removed to install Centramatics, it was discovered that many of the studs were visibly stretched. He had the local dealer replace all of the studs before using the trailer again. Note that these were Airstream original studs on drum brakes with many thousand miles on the trailer and only recently touched with an air wrench.

I had my disk brakes installed at the same place that Rich had his done and I watched every minute of the mounting and torqueing the wheels. The Tech, Dallas, did a meticulous job of torqueing the nuts. I have a few hundred miles on the new brakes and there have been no loose lug nuts. I sicerely doubt that any stretched studs were the result of the disk brake installation.

Since the affected wheels were adjacent, I think it is probable that whoever used the air wrench simply hit both wheels on that side.
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Old 07-25-2006, 11:30 AM   #52
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After reading all 50 post concerning lug nut torque I didn't see anywhere that the use of an antisieze compound on the studs mentioned. I have always used that on my traiiler lugs as well as other vehicles. Resistance to turning "torque" can be increased dramatically by even a small amount of rust or corrosion on the studs. Antiseize applyed to the stud before assemble helps insure the torque to the lug nut gives the correct clamp load to the wheel, which by the way is the purpose of the torque spec. in the first place.
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Old 07-25-2006, 02:38 PM   #53
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The use of anti-sieze compound will dramatically effect the amount of torque which is turned into axial load on the stud. Anti-sieze is not recommended by any manufacturer I know. If you do use it, you would have to conduct experiments to make sure you are not overloading the stud. This would involve measuring the axial stretching of the stud, something most people are not equipped to do.
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Old 07-25-2006, 03:11 PM   #54
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Anti-sieze on torque-sensitive connections???

As much as I hate a rusted bolt, lug nut or frozen sparkplug in an aluminum head, please consider the following when using anti-sieze on wheel lug nuts.

The percentage in parenthesis is the decrease in torque to attain the same clamping force as the No Lube torque. If you are torquing to 121 or thereabouts with lube, you're dangerously close to snapping studs.

For a 1/2-13 bolt (that's what mine are):

No lube 121 Ft-lbs
Plated and cleaned 90 (26%)
SAE 20 oil 87 (28%)
SAE 40 oil 83 (31%)
Plated & SAE 30 oil 79 (35%)
White Lithium 79 (35%)
Dry Moly film 66 (45%)
Graphite & oil 62 (49%)

Hope this helps.

Marc
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Old 07-26-2006, 01:44 AM   #55
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You guys are correct on the antisieze and the studs do not need to be lubricated .The no grease on studs goes back probably 50 years or more .
It is a known fact the lug nuts will come loose ,that being said however ,Im
quite certain not all wheels have come loose nor off ,but it is not needed
or recommended .I would put forth the following possible exception and that
would be antiseize for salt water boat trailers as the wheels and studs can be submerged in salt water and corode the nuts right to the stud.There again
in minimal coating of the stud.

To Mike Lewis ,the grease talked about was on the blog of Rich luhrs trip
that has a photo of the new studs and surprisingly a rusted one,the one that is broke off. There was some grease applied to the wheel studs ,and that
could be another reason the lugs came loose on all the wheels.

Pahaska , Rich's mention of the retorque when the discs were installed
seems to counter the impact wrench theory he has since you had yours done at the same place ,who I wonder used the impact wrench? I do agree as I
said NO to impact wrench on tightening lug nuts ,period thats it .You have had no trouble ,and he found 3 wheels loose ??? somthing doesn't add up .

Scott
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Old 07-26-2006, 08:04 AM   #56
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Anti-sieze is not recommened by most manufacs, nor should it be a practice that is done in nearly all cases to lug nuts. To use an anti-sieze solution on lug nuts will do everything everyone has said so far, none of which are good to a dry type situation as we are talking about here.

The simple solution is to properly torque your lug nuts per the manufac specifications without deviation from the specs and proceedures and I'm not simply talking RVs here. Cars, trucks, or any device that requires a specfically stated torque setting.

I read the one post where someone said, "I though the specs were a suggestion." The reason specs and proceedures are outlined from manufacs is that those solutions are what the engineers have outlined who designed these systems. To devate from these outlined practices, specifications and proceedures is really at your own risk and of those around you. Could you imagine a doctor doing surgery not following the specs of a proceedure because they thought the specs were a suggestion? Or how about the person that made your tires, built your engine or changed your oil. Specs called for 5 quarts, but to save money, use use 4 quarts or 3 quarts, because that too is only a suggestion.

I realize these are not really great comparisions, but the reality is that one wouldn't skimp on fluids (brake, motor, trans, etc), brake pads or tire pressures that we've all talked about and agreed upon here. Why do all that safety stuff and blow off the proper torque proceedures and have a simple $100 or less torque wrench?

Seems like a no brainer to me.

John and everyone to date is correct. Impact wrenches are a no-no and you have to be on top of it, cause shops use them regularly and most folks at these places are VERY LAZY and won't use the proper gear, though they clearly should.

If doing work yourself, as we say in technology, RTFM (read the friggen manual)...and follow it!
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