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Old 07-23-2006, 01:20 PM   #15
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I don't know if I would trust a cheap torque wrench from Harbor Freight. I have a 1/2" Snap-On, over $200.00 and a 1/2" from Sears about $80.00 that I carry when I travel. Both good wrenches. I'm of the school that you get what you pay for and sometimes less, but cheap tools are cheap tools.
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Old 07-23-2006, 01:32 PM   #16
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I should also mention that when I changed the steel wheels on my 76 Sovereign for Alcoa wheels the factory recommended that the correct wheel "bolts" ,gave me the part number which I gave to my dealer and he placed the order. They were installed and torqued but when I moved the trailer from my brothers house to mine , I lost a wheel causing damage to the side of the trailer. All the wheel bolts were loose. So anyone who may be thinking of replacing your old steel wheels with newer aluminum rims be aware that you have to replace the wheel bolts with screw in studs and tapered acorn nuts. The factory made good somewhat by sending some sheet aluminum and wheel well trim but that runaway tire could have caused an oncomnig car and driver serious damage based on their faulty information.
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Old 07-23-2006, 02:23 PM   #17
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so i guess i should stop driving tent stakes with my torque wrench too

yes for the newer trailers that have alcoa wheels the recommendation is 85...too much tighter can damage the alum wheels...next would be the lug bolts like rich experienced...

sure it would be better to use a breaker bar, like the 'gorilla bar' for loosening. but again this depends on how tight they are to begin with...are you 'breaking' one loose or just untighening...here's a nifty gadget that might solve this issue for carol or theres with tight nuts...
http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/ezlugluwrwi3.html


the flexrod/strain gauge type t wrenches are single purpose tools. many dial-a-torque wrenches do operate both directions and internally ratchet 2 ways...some say not to use for loosening, mine doesn't make that distinction and has a lifetime warranty anyway...
frequent use of any torque wrench may affect accuracy....
did ya loose the gauge to zero between uses,
are the nuts rounding a little?
how clean/dirty/lubed are the threads?
and so on...

price does matter but lets not get too anal about this issue...
it's lug nuts folks, not carbon fiber....
get em close and check em regularly.
more often after any wheel removal...

the one i use has 2-4% error as i recall. so i'm going for 82-88 sort of...

perhaps someday the nuts will have built in torque sensors and limiters...or will be made from materials that constrict to the proper set via magnet or electric impulse?....that would be cool eh?

i wonder if rich's lug were tightened to 105-110? he's got the newer alloy non alcoa wheels, aren't are 85-90 too? perhaps several were over tightened which stressed the bolts and damaged the rim...

i don't read blogs usually but his reflection on what to do after disaster stikes is worth reading....not make things worse, step back and reevaluate, not respond to negative triggers...and so on...

and don't forget.....
all tools are hammers except chisels
which are screwdrivers.....

cheers all
2air'
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Old 07-23-2006, 03:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
yes for the newer trailers that have alcoa wheels the recommendation is 85...too much tighter can damage the alum wheels...next would be the lug bolts like rich experienced...
This thread got my attention for several reasons.... 1. My AS is still in the shop doing warranty work..and they'll be pulling all four off so it got me thinking I should know this info.... and 2. I have the exact same AS as Rich and his family. So I checked the ol' manual because I have conflicting feedback from several places as to how much is too much or to little torque? I've never been one to worry about nuts and how much too torque...

It says
WARNING it is also important to periodically check on the tightness of lug nuts. They should be tightened to a torque of 110-120 ft. pounds on forged aluminum wheels and 90-95 ft. lbs on steel wheels Care should be taken at all times when handling the forged aluminum wheel because of possible damage to its appearance.

Now I believe my wheels are aluminum. Is that what would come with the Safari LS package? It seems hard to believe that some of the Aluminum wheels on recent models would be 85lbs torque and yet others alum wheels 120lbs.. That’s a big difference and enough to get someone in trouble. I would almost guarantee most shops would not know whos got 85ers and whos got 120ers.. they just let the airgun rip..
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Old 07-23-2006, 03:55 PM   #19
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and don't forget.....
all tools are hammers except chisels
which are screwdrivers.....

You are too funny. Or is that the cab that makes me laugh so?

Thanks for for the fancy torque 32 to 1 wrench link, interesting. Perhaps I should do some trials. I used to change tires for practice at home, but those were the Towlight, Explorer days. Now I wonder if I could even have the heft to move the wheels. (WARNING!!!! NEVER ALLOW YOURSELF TO BECOME AN OLD WOMAN!!!)

John I have the 4 way wrench so that tip about the gold bar and untightening is perfect and appreciated.

I thank you all for your input and information.

Also we may just carry the good torque wrench that we kept at home and some extra parts. I also need to doublecheck what rating "we" were following...I know the one AS owners manual had a separate slip of paper that said disregard the books number and use this number instead. Hmmmm. Guess I will head out to have a look.

Next quest for knowledge...brake controllers and disc brakes.
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Old 07-23-2006, 04:01 PM   #20
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hello everyone,

I carefully read over the blog and the photos with scrutiny ,being an auto
repair /truck/trailer repairman I am really interested in this one .If you look at the photo in the blog of the wheel studs ,notice that they are blueish to brown at about the seated area of the wheel and lug nut,indicating high
heating of the stud ,as in extremely hot ,all of them show this.Also the stud
standing up shows the break area as having different coloring ,across the center is a thin strip ,sortof that is lighter and looks like a newer fracture
than the rest of the stud .The heat discoloration is definately troubling.
I deal with wheels,brakes ,studs all the time and never see wheel studs like
those .Over tightening with an impact wrench is as we know WRONG ,easily
done as alot of shops have 160 psi at the gun .I also must question 110 ft
lbs of torque ,I torque fasteners all the time and thats tight ! I see that
anothers coach had the wheels come off ,after installing aluminum wheels.
This needs to be checked out ,somthing is not right. I cannot tell by the blog
if any new studs that were installed broke off either ,its a little unclear ,It
sounds like they all were breaking off (old studs ?) I believe there is more
going on with this troubling scenerio .The last note is that it appears that
studs started breaking off after the disc brakes were installed as it reads.
Hense my wondering if any new studs have broke off .Well the only time I
see studs broken off is if the wheel is loose ,and as it flales around ,snaps the studs off .That type of break or fracture of that stud in the photo needs
further scrutiny .A bad bad situation ,hopefully some more info can be picked
up in this blog and posted here.

Scott
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Old 07-23-2006, 06:26 PM   #21
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hi carol, azstreamin, scottanlily and others.....

taken directly from the airstream owners manual...
page d5 for classics 2005

"warning: in is also important to periodically check on the tightness of lug nuts. aluminum and steel wheels should be torque to 95ft pounds. care should be taken at all times when handling an aluminum wheel because of the possible damage to its appearance."


later on the same page.......
"warning: when removing aluminum forged wheels from the spindle, it is very important to mark them to assure the wheel is placed in the same position on the drum when reinstalling. if the aluminum forged wheel is to be mounted on a different drum it is important to sand all loose corrosion fomr the mating surfaces."

the bold italics are mine edit....

i looked on line at the same manuals for 2003 and back....the wording then was '85lbs for aluminum wheels and 95lbs for steel wheels'
this info was basically the same in the classic, safari, bambi and int. manuals....

http://www.airstream.com/product_lin...intenance.html

why the change on the classics that all had alcoa wheels? who knows, prehaps different bolts or perhaps the disc brakes...or the bearing/grease recall?

carol if your trailer had the same wheels as mine i'd be fine with this info, but the 2007s have a different style alum wheel from a different vendor!

i don't have access to an 05 or later safari manual azstreamin but you should....

so carol and az' check your owners manual...section d, somewhere between page 4-11.

with so many cars, trucks, bikes and trailers...who can remember these numbers....
....so i looked in my 'flight plan book' and 95 is what i've got written down too...
not 85....95....95.....95....must remember this.....
good thing its written down....

doing a quick search there are many threads on lug nuts, torque-ing them and so on......
with numbers all over the place....

everyone needs to find there own wheel/bolt/hub specs........
don't rely on what is posted here!
with 50 years of wheels and lugs and bolts....
imagine how many combos we have!

this is the warning sticker on my unit....above the wheels...
i'm gonna write 95 on it tomorrow...

scottanlily...
interesting observation about the bolt color....
reading rich's blog not only did he recently add the disc brakes, but he writes about how well the trailer/nissan worked coming down that really steep grade in idaho...

you might want to fire him an email....with your thoughts...
and he might want to save the bolts and have them inspected.....
along with the running gear.....

save travels all......
2air'
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Old 07-23-2006, 06:49 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
~snip~ many dial-a-torque wrenches do operate both directions and internally ratchet 2 ways...some say not to use for loosening, mine doesn't make that distinction and has a lifetime warranty anyway...

2air'
2air' that is for those freakin' dodges that had the different thread lug nuts on the other side of the vehicle...I unfondly remember one too many rainy nights on the side of the road muttering "lefty loosey, righty tighty...but this is a D*mn Dodge"

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Old 07-23-2006, 07:22 PM   #23
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If you want to tighten your lugs with an air wrench, get a "torque stick" of the proper rating. You just put it on the standard air wrench and tighten away. Harbour Freight has a set of 10 for less than $100 (from China of course). The good ones (made in USA) cost me $35 each about 10 years ago. They look like a socket and one piece extension. The length and diameter limit the torque.

In my opinion, 85-95-105 lb ft doesn't really make any difference. What you want to avoid 25 on one and 300 on another, which I have seen from the gorillas at the average chain tire store.
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Old 07-23-2006, 08:13 PM   #24
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hmmm....#4 in 2air's attached pic is telling.
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Old 07-23-2006, 08:23 PM   #25
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Like John, I too carry a torque wrench. I test the lugs before every trip to and from home. It's cheap insurance IMHO.

I also check the truck as well FWIW.

Overkill? Maybe, but in 13 years of towing, I've not run into any problems similar to what Rich has seen....or at least so far.
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Old 07-23-2006, 08:55 PM   #26
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hi aaron, jim, chuck and 'twinkie......

that's funny aaron,
i didn't know the dodges were so close in design
to my bicycles, which still attach the pedals that way!

i defer to your years as a motorhead jim,
but always suspected this was true....especially with 6-8 nuts....
with only 4 it might matter more.

chuck that's why i posted the pic....
i'd forgotten #4 on the list, and since i'll be in the rockies soon,
i'll now remember this too...

hi silvertwinkie!
where've you been.....first post i've seen in a while?
i was thinking about you last week.
hope you've been away for fun not something else...

if in rich's situation
i'd likely be pulling all the wheels
and knocking out a few bolts for inspection...

cheers
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Old 07-23-2006, 11:38 PM   #27
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He has probably had the aluminum wheels since he started his trip almost a year ago. I'm sure he has is bearing packed a few times therefore had the wheels off and on.

Just last month he had his brakes upgraded to disc. Could the disc brake upgrade along with record heat across the country, cause the studs to become brittle from being overheated?

He did say one snapped just from torquing it down.
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Old 07-23-2006, 11:58 PM   #28
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Hello 2air,

I see on the 4th line of the chart it talks of rechecking torque after excessive
braking ,which is what was said was done ,I suspect excessive heating of the
rotor/hub itself ,one guy in the blog said "your rotors are red hot" he may
have been right .I will see if I can make a contact with Rich if possible .
those studs never should have that heated color ,and when bluish brown
like they are ,possible those disc brakes are working very hard ,someway
or another ,did not catch what type of nissan for tv either .we'll have to see
what happens on this one .I routinely service GM light trucks and most all
use the factory aluminum wheels of many years 96 to present ,the lug nuts
come up to torque value very quickly after hand snugging the nuts .So you
having a good torque wrench is a must.If you lean on the nut too much
it will break ,but right then , loose wheels do cause the studs to break off fast .Ive torqued many aluminum wheels all the time none have came off .
This subject here today needs some investigation for sure ,as wheels exiting
the trailer cannot be allowed to become a reality as it has.

Scott
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