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Old 08-19-2002, 05:25 PM   #15
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i guess i need too buy a flatbed tilt-back truck too transport my trailer from campsite/home . but , with my luck the rear wheels/drums on the truck would be out of balance and something would still fall apart on my trailer!!. all joking aside, i think aslong as the tires are comp. balanced that it will be fine , my 77 model is still holding together just fine and i'm sure it has had very little preventive maintance till i got it
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Old 08-20-2002, 12:02 AM   #16
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Hub balancing

Andy, my current trust for anything coming out of the factory is just about nil. They can't even get a manual or a bill of material to match the physical trailer.

After working for 35 years as an engineer, I understand all too well why something like "balance the hubs..." would come out of the factory when things start coming apart. It's one last shot in the dark that directs the blame right to the user and away from the designers and builders. Over the years, I have watched it happen over and over.

Without a recording accelerometer, no one except the driver knows what impacts a trailer has encountered and even he can't quantify the impacts or probably even remember the majority of them.
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Old 08-20-2002, 09:47 AM   #17
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John.
If you don't trust the factory then why did you buy an Airstream?

You forget that hub and drum technology back then was certainly far removed from today.

I have often wondered what would happen to the Airstream trailer if a rally of engineers only was held. I would hazard a guess that they would collectively decide that Airstream should be sued because they built a product that causes too many problems for the owners, especially most engineers, who always seem to ridicule what Airstream has done.

I have all the respect in the world for engineers. However that does not make them an expert in everything.

I think for the benefit of this site, I will pass the baton on to you, as it's obvious that my years of Airstream background don't begin to compare with your expertice. Additionally it appears that my inputs to this site have added to confusion, since they are different than yours.

I may or may not send private messages to those that I feel I can help.

At least in that way, even though it will deprive others from possibly benefitting from some of that information, I won't stir up the dander of any other engineers.


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Old 08-20-2002, 11:00 AM   #18
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Unhappy don't stop discussion

OK, guys. I'm learning alot from this discussion, so don't stop or get bent out of shape because you disagree with each other. I have a "new" '77 rear-bath Sovereign that I just took on a 5000 mile trip. I wondered about the capacity of the trailer to handle the heavy load behind the rear axle over the horrendous roads that now prevail through most of the U.S. (How come all those orange cones don't seem to make a difference? I guess it's the big trucks pounding the roads to smithereens.)

So, for me, this discussion is very helpful in thinking about how to deal with such things as water and effluent in the rear storage tanks. (Dump at every opportunity.) I also didn't know about balancing. My service manual gives directions, but they seem to require special tools, etc.

BTW, what is this kit for amending the rear-bath weight problem? More info, please.

Eugenie
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Old 08-20-2002, 12:41 PM   #19
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EAP-

Gussets to strengthen the rear of the frame rails.

Andy-

I don't think anyone is trying to chase you from the forums, I appreciate what you contribute. But you also need to give us credit for what we have done for 35 years. From reading the posts I would say we have some pretty intelligent people that have more than a basic understanding of stress and vibration.

You also need to understand you have told a bunch of engineers that these frame rails are designed to withstand the stresses imposed on them by the roads, but will bend when a 75 lb. wheel assembly 1 1/2 oz out of balance turnng at 480 rpm is attached. There is going to be a debate.

John
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Old 08-20-2002, 03:46 PM   #20
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74Argosy24MH John.
There will always be a debate, especially when things are taken out of context.
I NEVER said the frame will bend!!!
I DID say the frame, and shell can sustain fatigue cracks because of the vibration, along with rear end separation.
Certainly anyone should understand that vibration can destroy anything, like it or not.
The problem here is that I reported FACTS, not theory.
I simply don't have the time to debate with anyone who continues to ignore real facts as opposed to that individual theory.

It really doesn't matter to me how much someone may needlessly destroy their trailer. I can and have for many many years put them back togther again and again, and will continue to do so, since it seems that lack of proper running gear balance, according to some, couldn't possibly hurt a thing.

It's the self appointed experts that refuse to deal with facts, that can easily be duplicated, that cause confusion with the new comer.

I know some people that really don't think Airstream is here to stay, and they refuse to buy one, until Airstream gets it right.
Maybe next lifetime.

I really think this subject has consumed too much time.
I for one, am done with it.


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Old 08-20-2002, 05:49 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Inland RV Center, In

I have all the respect in the world for engineers. However that does not make them an expert in everything.



I worked for years with engineers and I must say that the only time I saw them really get mad is when they werenít allowed to blow the whistle.

When I purchased my new tires I had the wheels balanced not the drums. I would of had the drums done also but it is a long way to Andyís shop. The tire people asked why as you donít ride in the trailer what difference doses it make. I have seen what vibration will do to all types of mechanical equipment. I have seen very large air handlers torn apart by vibration. I have seen what a worn strut bearing dose to a sailboat reduction gear and it how much it cost to repair. Andy takes it to a art which most of us canít obtain but if I were near his shop he would do my balancing. I have read Andyís advice for almost a year now and I can say he has been right on. This is one case which disproves the old axiom free advice is worth what you pay for it.
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Old 08-20-2002, 09:03 PM   #22
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if there was somebody with that type of balancing equipment where i live, i would have it done. but for now i will just have to rely on computer balancing.
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Old 08-20-2002, 11:16 PM   #23
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Question rear bath fix kit

Hi Guys,

I have one of those 70 sovereign, rear bath airstreams. After enjoying the spirited debate over vibation, I have just one question. It is the question John raised;

"what is this kit for amending the rear-bath weight problem? More info, please. "
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Old 08-21-2002, 09:12 AM   #24
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Rear end seperation kit

The frame kit is welded or bolted to the frame within the wheel wells. They are not welded behind the wheels as I previously stated.

Not to throw more fuel on the fire but it just doesnt make sense to me why AS does not require balancing of the hub if it is such a problem.

John
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Old 08-21-2002, 09:54 AM   #25
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My thoughts exactly, 83Excella

Airstream shipped me a shiney new trailer with a two-year warrenty and without either the tires or the hubs balanced. The owner's manual lists 6 categories of "Tips on tire Care". Nowhere there or anywhere else in the manual is balancing even the tires, let alone the hubs, mentioned.

Obviously, Airstream is really paranoid about balance problems. Not!

I'll go back to my prediction that this all started as a last-ditch attempt to trouble-shoot a problem that was not related to hub balance.

In the engineering world, finding a hub out of balance on a trailer with rear-end separation is entirely meaningless. One would first have to show that trailers that did not fail didn't have hubs just as bad. But who is going to look at all those other trailers? And who is going to design the test so that the black tanks are equally full and thry all hit that same speed bump or chuck hole just a little too fast?
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Old 08-21-2002, 10:52 AM   #26
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theory vs. experience

Ok, I think this subject is getting long here, but the facts are that Andy has simply stated what it takes to avoid the problem, from his 30+ years experience with Airstream repairs and before that as a claims representative.
We need to make sure and separate Andy from the Airstream factory. Airstream might have screwed up a few things along the way, as we all know. Andy is trying to tell us how to avoid or even repair the problem.
Do all you guys out there have your engineering experience with Airstream?
Andy is talking from real life experience for over 30 years, not theory. If you guys could see his place, you would maybe understand a little better. He can point at things and show you what's up. ( Or down) I am not one to blindly believe what I'm being told, and some of the things coming from Airstream raise my eyebrows. ( Like 4 ea. 2600lb wheels for a 5000lb trailer) Some of the things Andy says do the same, but at this point I would rather believe him than someone with nothing but pure theory and NO experience. We all have one or two trailers, a motorhome etc. That's typically all we see. Andy has seen hundreds, maybe thousands of them, and got into every rivet, and not just once.
Another thing is, Andy goes to the safety extreme, because he has a business and all the associated liability issues. His posts reflect the very safest approach to trailering. He can not afford to give out the wrong advice.
(Hey Andy, you can send me that 100bucks now that you promised if i post this)
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Old 08-21-2002, 12:54 PM   #27
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More mud

Just to throw another twist in.

I would assume (not such a good word choice)Airstream engineering and Airstream marketing are at somewhat of opposite end of the spectrum. So when a unit is built and sold there is really one objective. Get the best unit in the hands of a consumer with a minimum of liability. And I would consider an Airstream to be near (if not at) the top of the line of travel trailers.

However, if there is a service concern after the sale, the only issue is to resolve it. So marketing takes a big back seat to the issue. As in, if you want it resolved, this is how to do it! Forget about the costs or the feasibility. And some customers will choose to repair some will not. Some customers will state that the concern is not an issue some will not. And with the type of use that some of these units get (ie sit for 11.5 months and get used for 2 weeks) it may not be an issue for them either.

So to state what is right and what is wrong, depends on one's perspective.

Usage from a parked trailer used as storage or a cabin to being pulled over the road full time can make big differences in what needs to be done.

And based on the input I have seen I am not sure Airstream has an official position other than they would like a happy customer.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
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Old 08-21-2002, 04:42 PM   #28
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Re: theory vs. experience

Quote:
Originally posted by uwe
.
(Hey Andy, you can send me that 100bucks now that you promised if i post this)
You got a hundred !!!!
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