The Centramatics Thread

[hickory]

Yes I have them on my tow vehicle. It makes the tires wear evenly, no cupping. I even have them on the steer tires of our farm semis. Also on my 1975 Dodge Bighorn antique truck.
I have drank the Koolaid and am most happy with the results. Money well spent.
Hickory
YMMV

[PKI]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

-- snip -- You're convinced that Thor takes the axles apart, matches them with the tires and rims, then balances everything as a unit? -- snip --

No, I think AS specifies individually balanced components and the linked information is out of date. But FYI, the process of balancing the rotating components as a set is not as you describe. Here are a couple of links that provide info.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...r-perfect.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UP97bO-MpU

What I am convinced of, is that whatever balance is done prior, degrades with use. That makes a real time balancing device worth considering. Pat

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by PKI

No, I think AS specifies individually balanced components and the linked information is out of date. But FYI, the process of balancing the rotating components as a set is not as you describe. Here are a couple of links that provide info.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...r-perfect.html

What I am convinced of, is that whatever balance is done prior, degrades with use. That makes a real time balancing device worth considering. Pat

I have never seen any evidence of any balancing on any dexter product. Could you provide pictures of drums or rotors with balance drilling or weights?

[PKI]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

-- snip -- Could you provide pictures of drums or rotors with balance drilling or weights?

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f465...-179353-2.html See post #28 Not my post, but it looks like what you want to see.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by PKI

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f465...-179353-2.html See post #28 Not my post, but it looks like what you want to see.

Sorry, that's not an AS nor a Dexter component...per the poster.

[PKI]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Sorry, that's not an AS nor a Dexter component...per the poster.

True, but the post also says the ones that came on his AS were factory balanced. Now my understanding of factory is the manufacturer. However, maybe the reference was to the AS factory and indicates a balance after assembly.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by PKI

True, but the post also says the ones that came on his AS were factory balanced. Now my understanding of factory is the manufacturer. However, maybe the reference was to the AS factory and indicates a balance after assembly.

Yeah, I know what he says, but (unless he has old Henschens...for which I have no experience) I have never seen a Dexter drum (dozens) in my hand which has had any attempt at balancing. I've only inspected four Dexter (mine) rotors. They have no attempt at balancing either.

[switz]

As mentioned earlier, I have the Centramatic wheel balancers on all four wheels on my 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins as well as my Airstreams. Anything tp remove out of balance vibration is good for all of the suspension components.

They have a website one can check to see if there is a compatible version for a specific tow vehicle.

http://www.centramatic.com

Many over the road trucks use them.

[switz]

Just FIW.

Our 2015 23D International Serenity came with insufficient grease in the four wheel bearings from Dexter. Evidently the Airstream factory does NOT check whether they are properly assembled before attaching the axles to the frame.

One set was completely scored. Since the trailer came to Colonial on a flat bed with another 23D, I put all the mileage on the trailer, about 2,000 miles, taking it from the dealer to Paradise, TX where the modifications were done. One of the first things we checked were the wheel bearings. We replaced all four sets with USA made Timken bearings:

Timken Set 4 ($7.70) and Set 17 ($8.80) wheel bearings
Timken 441151 ($2.98) bearing seal
ordered from Amazon for 10” brake drum and axles

We replaced the backing plates to have auto-adjust capability for the drum brakes. They were about a $15 higher price than the non-adjust backing plates. This $60 savings on an upper trim line model retailing for over $70,000.

[PKI]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

-- snip -- have no attempt at balancing -- snip --.

Were those drums out of balance?

[PKI]

Is it possible that this is how drums are produced within a balance tolerance and have no secondary balancing machining or welding? Given the high number of drums produced, an effective mold and machining process that does not require a secondary balancing operation seems a cost effective investment. Tight mold configuration control coupled with machining that eliminates imbalance while turning the brake shoe contact surface and aligning the mounting holes concentric with the contact surface would achieve that end.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US5138757A/en

Disclaimer - no knowledge of industry practice beyond a Google search. However, can not believe any engineer or quality manager would sign off on a rotating assembly that did not have and meet a balancing specification. Pat

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by PKI

Is it possible that this is how drums are produced within a balance tolerance and have no secondary balancing machining or welding? Given the high number of drums produced, an effective mold and machining process that does not require a secondary balancing operation seems a cost effective investment. Tight mold configuration control coupled with machining that eliminates imbalance while turning the brake shoe contact surface and aligning the mounting holes concentric with the contact surface would achieve that end.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US5138757A/en

Disclaimer - no knowledge of industry practice beyond a Google search. However, can not believe any engineer or quality manager would sign off on a rotating assembly that did not have and meet a balancing specification. Pat

Well, that would be nice, but trailer axle manufacturing isn't that tight, I'm afraid. There are old threads about this..like 7 or 8 years old. All I can say is even after tire and wheel balancing, there was still evidence of stuff moving around. A camera placed on the bed would vibrate around. After centramatics were installed, camera shake was gone and even towels stay in place.

[Action]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

I have never seen a Dexter drum (dozens) in my hand which has had any attempt at balancing. I've only inspected four Dexter (mine) rotors. They have no attempt at balancing either.

The need to balance a brake rotor is much less than a brake drum. Most rotors have less mass than a drum. And the mass of a rotor is closer to the rotating center than a drum. A drum has the braking surface spread over some inches over the center of the rotating mass. A rotor usually has most of it's mass in a band of an inch or so over the center of the rotating mass.

Nearly all of my experience is from car and light truck manufacturing. Where most drums were balanced with weights and zero rotors were balanced.

>>>>>>>Action

[dznf0g]

GM balances rotors. They are little rolls of steel forced into the ventilation slots. Don't think I've ever seen a non-ventilated rotor balanced.

[slowmover]

Tires aren’t perfectly round, though some a damned close.

Anyone remember a tire shaver? Use almost standard for delivery of luxury cars.

Point is that vibration reduction is worth pursuing. Too many of us can testify to Centramatic effectiveness.

I can walk thru any truckstop and find many of these installed. Vibration in big trucks induces fatigue more than “rough ride”.

Best shock absorbers and CM are a great combination.

[crispyboy]

Originally Posted by GMFL

Anybody running centramatics balancers on their TV?

Yes I have Centramatics on my tow vehicle, the Airstream and an older truck. They seem to work as advertised. The Firestone Transforce AT tires on my tow vehicle seem to be wearing very evenly. These tires were balanced at the tire shop but there isn't much weight attached to the rims so they must have been a decently made tire from the start.
A few years ago my truck developed a vibration/shake when it had Michelin tires. I finally tracked it down to the Centramics going bad. The balancing media quit moving around within the tube and stayed in one place creating a very bad imbalance situation. Centramatic did warranty the old ones and sent me some new ones. A nice side benefit of the Centramatic is that it keeps a little bit more of the brake dust off the rims.
Be certain to inspect the Centramatics anytime you have the wheel off the trailer or tow vehicle to make sure the media is still freely moving around.
If the truck didn't have the internal TPMS sensors I would probably have switched to balance beads. I do have the balance beads in some utility trailer tires that I mounted myself. I think the beads would do a better job at balancing being farther out from the hub.

[boondockdad]

Originally Posted by GMFL

My original QUESTION was Does anyone use Centramatics on their Tow Vehicle? I have them on my Airstream and they work great. I’ve all ready drank that Koolaid. I’m thinking about adding them to my TV ( 2016 GMC 2500 Duramax Denali) at my upcoming tire change.

The set they sent me for my 2003 Ford E-350 didn't fit. Returned 'em.

[PKI]

Seemed worth the time to contact Dexter.

Response from Dexter. Information <Information@dexteraxle.com>
- Dexter brake drums and trailer drums in general are not balanced. Tight tolerances in the drum machining keeps them true. - Jim Miller / Dexter Axle

Looks like you can take the info too ways. 1) RV tolerances are big enough that manufacturing process produces an acceptable part. 2) Balancing is not required, because the machining process eliminates the need for a separate balance operation.

Pat

[switz]

Notice that Dexter never said they balanced the drums, just machined them. There is a difference between the two activities.

We even installed Centramatic wheel balancers on the 2014 31' Classic that was converted to Disc brakes.

[PKI]

Switz - take note of post #111. Maybe, maybe not. Certainly should be. Pat