Regreasing wheel bearings on a new Airstream

[nangoff]

I know this subject has been chewed on, but I'm sorry I can't find earlier threads.

I bought new a CCD 28 in 2004. The first thing I did was take it to Alaska on an Airstream caravan. On returning I received a letter from Airstream saying the bearings needed to be packed with grease because very little was put in at the factory. Upon repacking the bearings we found no more than a tablespoon or two of grease in each bearing.

I do not understand why the wheel bearings need to be periodically repacked on this trailer. I have put 30,000 miles on it since the repacking, and a total of 50,000. I use an infrared temperature gun and measure the bearing temps periodically while on the road. I'm told by bearing engineers that the reason bearings fail is through contamination.

Bearings will show their discomfort by abnormally heating up so watching them with a temperature gun will give fair warning that the bearings need replaced. I have not seen any significant tempearture rise in any of the bearings.

Grease contains lubricants which on warming up provide "oil" to the bearing. After usage the bearing cools down and the "oil" congeals again ready for use the next time. Nothing goes away, modern lubricants can go through this process indefinitely.

Bearings are hardly ever repacked on automobiles, or anything else made within the recent past.

So why is it that bearings need to be repacked "every year". With todays good lip seals that protect the bearings from contaminates they should never require lubrication. Thanks, Gerry

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by nangoff

... sorry I can't find earlier threads....

read/search ONLY in the axle subforum...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f437/

where there is a thread or 2 on this topic.

the 04s? had the bearing recall issue,

that must have been the purpose of the letter.

your observations have been made be 4 and are valid...

just read a while and all the greasy views will become clear, or not.

cheers
2air'

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by nangoff

I know this subject has been chewed on, but I'm sorry I can't find earlier threads.

I bought new a CCD 28 in 2004. The first thing I did was take it to Alaska on an Airstream caravan. On returning I received a letter from Airstream saying the bearings needed to be packed with grease because very little was put in at the factory. Upon repacking the bearings we found no more than a tablespoon or two of grease in each bearing.

I do not understand why the wheel bearings need to be periodically repacked on this trailer. I have put 30,000 miles on it since the repacking, and a total of 50,000. I use an infrared temperature gun and measure the bearing temps periodically while on the road. I'm told by bearing engineers that the reason bearings fail is through contamination.

Bearings will show their discomfort by abnormally heating up so watching them with a temperature gun will give fair warning that the bearings need replaced. I have not seen any significant tempearture rise in any of the bearings.

Grease contains lubricants which on warming up provide "oil" to the bearing. After usage the bearing cools down and the "oil" congeals again ready for use the next time. Nothing goes away, modern lubricants can go through this process indefinitely.

Bearings are hardly ever repacked on automobiles, or anything else made within the recent past.

So why is it that bearings need to be repacked "every year". With todays good lip seals that protect the bearings from contaminates they should never require lubrication. Thanks, Gerry

The larger part of the reason to repack bearings every 10,000 miles, is to inspect and repair the electric brakes, and to replace the grease seals.

Cars and trucks are used frequently. Travel trailer use is a fraction of automotive use.

Electric brake magnets last about 20,000 miles, shoes last about 50,000 miles, normally.

But, adjuster springs break all too many times. Brake dust accumulates. The shoes wear out of adjustment.

Ignoring the bearing pack, ignores the brakes as well.

And then there is the rule of thumb that the running gear should be rebalanced every 10,000 miles as well.

Ignoring the bearings, brakes and balancing for more then 10,000 miles, is asking for problems, that quickly become expensive.

Having serviced Airstreams for almost 42 years, has more than demonstrated the need for proper and timely servicing of the running gear and it's components.

Andy

[Action]

Debris can get into the wheel bearing area because the cap seal isn't liquid tight. As mentioned above the usage typically is such that condensation can build up causing rust from the non-use. And the grease can break down from heat generated. The weight handled by these trailers is much greater than cars of today with sealed wheel bearings.

It's a PM deal also. As Andy stated above gives the operator opportunity to look over other areas too.

On the car I drive (a 12 year old Lincoln with 155,000 miles) it has never had front wheel bearings repacked.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[Minnie's Mate]

And then there is the rule of thumb that the running gear should be rebalanced every 10,000 miles as well.

I'm going to show a little ignorance here: What exactly is meant by "running gear" besides the brakes and bearings? I'm coming up on 10K and will have the bearings packed for the second time within the next 2-4 weeks so I guess I need to have the other stuff balanced, too.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

I'm going to show a little ignorance here: What exactly is meant by "running gear" besides the brakes and bearings? I'm coming up on 10K and will have the bearings packed for the second time within the next 2-4 weeks so I guess I need to have the other stuff balanced, too.

Running gear, is the tire, wheel, hub and drum assembly.

Namely, everything that turns when the trailer is in motion.

Since an Airstream is designed to be flexible, if the running gear is not reasonably balanced, then the shell will shake and twist, when in motion, resulting in many types of damages, that could have been avoided.

Shearing rivets, fatigue cracking the frame and/or shell, breaking wires, water leaks, LPG leaks, appliance damage, furniture damage, ruining tires, are just some of the things that happen, when the running gear balancing is ignored.

Service departments stay very busy, putting Airstreams back together again, that have shaken apart.

Other brands of trailers have the same type problems as well.

Andy
Andy

[davidz71]

It is my understanding that bearings on automobiles are heated up daily and the lube gets to all surfaces. On a trailer, it might sit for months on end, condensation may set in and rust develop. Once this happens and you take the trailer out again, the rust contaminates the grease and you start having addition friction until the bearing fails.

[nangoff]

I'd like to know, hear, from folks who have never had their bearings repacked. Not withstanding the comments above, if you repack the bearings every 10,000 miles you'll never know if a bearing will last longer than that. I seem to recall that Airstream or somebody is putting in sealed bearings now designed to last the life of the trailer. Is the bearing itself is the same. only the seals different? Also, seems to me that a car bearing would be more prone to failing when it daily went through heat/cold cycles bringng in water (condensation) each time.

Again, I'd like to hear from those who never have greased their bearings, what their history has been, preferrably on newer trailers. Thanks, Gerry

[Action]

Originally Posted by nangoff

Also, seems to me that a car bearing would be more prone to failing when it daily went through heat/cold cycles bringng in water (condensation) each time. Thanks, Gerry

Non-permantly sealed car and truck wheel bearings (like the style for Air Stream trailer) used in a daily or at least very frequently will heat up the grease and vaporize the condensation. Air can move in and out because the seal at the cap is not air tight. In addtion the the grease is continously being moved in and around the bearings.

When bearings are not used, say for 6 months to years, like a travel trailer te air in the bearing cavity may contain moisture. That moisture may condense on the bare metal parts. The metal parts may be bare because when the bearings were not used the grease may slide or settle over a long period of time, exposing bare metal. It isn't a huge issue. And regular PM as noted above is the fix.

In a sealed bearing situation like most automobiles for the last 10 to 15 years, keeps the air out of the bearing area. No moisture to be an issue. Also the usage is such that the grease is moved around on a very regular basis. Lastly the load on a car even a big luxury car is far less than the load of a travel trailer wheel bearing or some larger trucks like a F250 or larger.

I am not aware of sealed wheel bearing system that contains grease for trailers of any type. Not that they do not exist, it is just I am not aware of any.

>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by nangoff

I'd like to know, hear, from folks who have never had their bearings repacked. Not withstanding the comments above, if you repack the bearings every 10,000 miles you'll never know if a bearing will last longer than that. I seem to recall that Airstream or somebody is putting in sealed bearings now designed to last the life of the trailer. Is the bearing itself is the same. only the seals different? Also, seems to me that a car bearing would be more prone to failing when it daily went through heat/cold cycles bringng in water (condensation) each time.

Again, I'd like to hear from those who never have greased their bearings, what their history has been, preferrably on newer trailers. Thanks, Gerry

We sell many axles, that are replacements for those that were damaged because of improper bearing maintenance, even for trailers built since 2000.

Lives depend on proper running gear.

Assuming the running gear is indefinitely ok, is a huge safety risk.

Axles equipped with "never lube bearings" also have electric or disc brakes.

To assume that they last as long as the bearings, is a myth.

Hubs or rotors should be inspected every 10,000 miles, regardless, and more often if the trailer is seldom used, since water does collect in the hubs.

If not, then safety issues are being ignored.

Why most owners will spend upwards of $100,000, or more for an Airstream trailer and a good tow vehicle, and then question the normal running gear inspections that are suggested at every 10,000 miles, or once a year, is a mystery repair shops will never understand, but stand by to profit from it, everyday.

Shops love it.

Andy

[nangoff]

So, if bearings are sealed and disk brakes are being used, what then? Gerry

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by nangoff

So, if bearings are sealed and disk brakes are being used, what then? Gerry

Disc brakes, electric brakes, don't matter.

Every 10,000 miles or once a year, which ever is first.

Andy

[Minnie's Mate]

Thanks for the info Andy. I learn from this forum every day on how to better take care of my beloved Airstream. I knew from this forum to have the bearings repacked every year and have the brakes inspected while the drums were off. I took the AS by my local tire dealer and had the tread inspected at the beginning of last season, but I didn't know about the balancing of the wheels, drums, etc. at 10K intervals. I will probably have between 9K and 10K when I have the bearings repacked before the camping season begins this year (it starts early here in the south) so I will have the shop add these maintenance items to the list.

[nangoff]

Andy, am curious, how much do you charge for servicing a set of wheels? And what do you do for this? In my case 4 wheels on a CCD 28. Thanks, Gerry

[overlander63]

In answer to an earlier question, Dexter offers sealed bearings that do not need service. The common misunderstanding is that they are good for the life of the trailer, and they are not. Dexter recommends replacing them at 100,000 mile intervals. While most of our trailers will not see that much mileage during their lives, the bearings are not "lifetime".
Also, disc brakes need to be inspected for wear at the same interval as drum brakes, as Andy noted above. When one of our forum members arrived at my shop for a new pair of tires, we discovered the pads were almost completely worn out after about 12,000 miles.
Brake pads and shoes are inexpensive, especially compared to the cost of just one drum or rotor, not to mention downtime, especially during a vacation. Who wants to spend 2 days of their vacation in Grand Geegaw Junction waiting for a drum or rotor because they didn't check their brakes?

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by nangoff

Andy, am curious, how much do you charge for servicing a set of wheels? And what do you do for this? In my case 4 wheels on a CCD 28. Thanks, Gerry

We do what is called a "major brake."

We jack up the trailer and remove all 4 tires and wheels.

We inspect the tires for any problems.

We check the tires for proper inflation and correct the pressure if necessary.

We inspect the shocks for leaks and/or old age. (More than 10 years)

We remove the bearings and clean them in a solvent.

We inspect the bearings for any problems.

We pressure pack the bearings.

We degrease the hubs.

At this point we balance the running gear if requested.

We clean all the dust and dirt from the brake system.

We test the breakaway switch and the magnets.

We replace the brake shoes and/or magnets if necessary. (Electric brakes)

We replace the adjuster springs if they are more than 10 years old. (Electric brakes)

We deglaze the brake shoes and magnets. (Electric brakes)

We deglaze the hub and drum. (Electric brakes)

We check the fluid level in the master cylinder. (Disc brakes)

We test the breakaway switch. (Disc brakes)

We replace the rotors and/or pads if necessary. (Disc brakes)

We deglaze the pads. (Disc brakes)

We deglaze the rotors. (Disc brakes)

We add some grease to the hubs or rotors.

We reinstall the bearings.

We replace the grease seals.

We reassemble the running gear.

We adjust the brakes. (Electric brakes)

We remove the trailer from the jack stands.

Labor charge is 2.5 hours for the major brake, for a tandem axle.

Labor charge for the shock replacement is .3 hours each.

Labor charge for the running gear balance depends on the wheels, steel or aluminum.

Andy

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by nangoff

Andy, am curious, how much do you charge for servicing a set of wheels? And what do you do for this? In my case 4 wheels on a CCD 28. Thanks, Gerry

Just an FYI, the forums doesn't allow vendors to quote prices, the posts can be read many months or years after the price is quoted, and could result in hard feelings if the dealer can no longer honor the quote. It also keeps "price wars" down to a minimum. We did this proactively, remembering the gas price wars in the 60's...
You can give Andy a call, and he can give you his price based on current rates and prices.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by nangoff

...charge for servicing a set of wheels?..In my case 4 wheels on a CCD 28.

the factory service center charges about 300$ to repack a triple axle unit.

so 4 your double i'd estimate 200$ +/-

the dexter bearings will not work on your henschens axles...

dexter warrants the nev-r-lube 'seal bearings' for UP TO 5 years OR 100,000 miles.

but dexter STILL recommends that the hub/sealed bearing pack be inspected yearly or at 12,000 mile intervals...

Originally Posted by nangoff

So, if bearings are sealed and disk brakes are being used, what then? Gerry

with the 6 disc brake setup (kodiak) the bearings have been repacked twice in 50,000+ miles of towing.

first time the grease still looked fresh and red (about 20k)

2nd time the grease was dark, but still grease (about 30k)...

so my plan is to repack about every 25,000 miles, that is about a 12-15 month interval...

but with frequent and regular travel and no wheel submersion 40-50K miles might be adequate (every 2 years)...

disc brakes can be inspected WITHOUT opening the hub which is nice.

wheels get balanced when new tires are mounted ONLY or when a flat is repaired...

centramatics 4 balance of any 'running gear' issues...

i also have 50,000+ miles on the oem brake pads, while many report they are only GOOD or 10-15k miles...

so keep in mind some vendor advice is self serving, revenue driven and may be excessive...

and some owners cry when equipment fails, regardless of the abuse or lack of maintenance...

cheers
2air'

[nangoff]

Originally Posted by overlander63

Just an FYI, the forums doesn't allow vendors to quote prices, the posts can be read many months or years after the price is quoted, and could result in hard feelings if the dealer can no longer honor the quote. It also keeps "price wars" down to a minimum. We did this proactively, remembering the gas price wars in the 60's...
You can give Andy a call, and he can give you his price based on current rates and prices.

I have no idea what a running gear 10,000 mile checkput costs nor what the process entails. I do know that for xxx,xxx trailers on the road with annual checkouts based on 10k or 1 year, servicing is a lot of money for the shops that do this.

Many thanks to all of your inputs.... I have spent 35 years in the business of applying naked, shielded, double shielded, sealed, sleeve, roller, spherical, tapered, etc, and pillow block bearings in the industrial world in every conceiveable atmosphere and application. True bearing health rests solely on how much heat the bearing is generating under load. As I have said earlier I check my wheels / bearings with a Cen-tech, #91778, non-contact laser thermometer. This is an extremely important, inexpensive product that any RVer should have on his person when traveling, regardless of when you had your bearings redone. Bearings do not fail catastrophically, if they do I've never heard of it, at least not on the industrial application world; however they will they let you know they are in trouble, they make a lot of noise and run hot.

Modern lubricants last a long, long time and sometimes the act of servicing the bearings the lubricant is in leads the bearings to a premature failure.

I won't go so far as saying some of the information I have received is self serving, but I do invite Andy to give me a private e-mail of the cost of his services and the nice description he gave of his process. Thanks to all, Gerry

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by nangoff

I won't go so far as saying some of the information I have received is self serving, but I do invite Andy to give me a private e-mail of the cost of his services and the nice description he gave of his process. Thanks to all, Gerry

Owners can do as they wish, with their equipment. If they wish to ignore others experiences, so be it.

After almost 42 years with the Airstream products, I still on almost a monthly, if not more often basis say, "I told you so."

My post # 16 spells out exactly what we do, and the times.

To find out the cost, simply multiply any shops labor rate by those hours.

There is nothing more I can contribute to the reasons listed above, than I already have, either publicly or privately.

If anyone wishes to ignore almost lifetime experience with a given situation, then that certainly is their choice.

Repair shops make huge money, not from routine repairs, but from customers mistakes.

Many that post here will gladly confirm that.

Andy