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08-10-2013, 07:40 AM
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#21
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CapriRacer
I'm in the
, US
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 989
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Just fuel for the fire:
I note with great interest that this video is supposed to show how effective the product is.
If you look at the 25 to 30 second mark, the tire and wheel assembly is spun and the amount of vibration of the un-corrected assembly can be noted. Pay particular attention to the little red bar with the nut on it the appears below the tire.
Then look at the 2:25 to 2:30 time mark where the assembly has been purposely made off balance and the Centramatics installed. Please note that same red bar with the nut on it vibrating - and much worse than at the 30 second mark. So in spite of the voice over saying it is in perfect balance, it's actually worse than the undisturbed condition.
Word to the wise: Be very careful about accepting these claims at face value.
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08-10-2013, 08:17 AM
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#22
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,655
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Capri,
While I definitely see what you see, it totally bamboozles me why they would use a tire and wheel manufactured for walking speed with virtually zero of the manufacturing tolerances of a road tire/wheel AND an apparently home made stand with who knows what kind of motor AND a mock up product with plastic tubing. It seems to me, they should use an actual quality, full size tire and wheel manufactured and engineered for passenger road use and mount it on a precision balancing machine and use an actual production Centramatic product.
I can tell you it was the only thing, after EXTENSIVE diagnosis and repair attempts that eliminated a vibration on a van I had back in the early 90s.
Related....My scooter used to literally almost jump off the floor while on the center stand, until I put Dynabeads in the tires. Smooth as silk now when running the throttle up while on the center stand.
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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08-10-2013, 09:02 AM
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#23
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4 Rivet Member
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Victoria
, BC
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS
"OK, perhaps I am over-thinking all this... I'm upgrading my tires & wheels to 16 inch Sendels with Michelin LTX M/S2 tires 225/75-16E's. I've ordered the Dill TPMS system from Tirerack.com."
And the objective evidence for the above upgrades was.....?
The objective reality....the product works.
Bob
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Hi Bob,
Yes, I have spent a lot of money now based on what amounts to mostly anecdotal (but quite alarming) reports of ST tire failures on Airstream trailers. I would have simply replaced my 15 inch tires with an equivalent load Michelin LT tire but they don't make them in 15 inch. (XL P tires are not rated for a high enough load IMHO.) So, to preserve some load capacity in what should be a more robust LT tire I have had to move up to a 16 inch rim & LTE tire. I do not have good statistics to support this decision as the helpful, but not truly definitive, tire survey by Phoenix does not include a denominator in the failure column. (It can't). We have no way to know whether the lack of reports of Michelin LT tire failures is simply due to the relatively lower usage of these tires on Airstreams...
Nevertheless, there are enough reports of catastrophic LT tire blowouts on this forum alone that I am pretty sure that I will have a more reliable setup by going with the 16 inch LT Michelins.
I have ordered a TPMS system so that I can hopefully catch a leaking tire or overheating wheel before it fails. That can't hurt either - I don't think.
As for the Centramatic question though... I am aware that some folks feel that the contents of their A/S trailer are less disturbed and tire wear is less noticeable since putting on Centramatics; but, to date, I have not seen any sort of objective comparative to show that the Centramatics provide any meaningful benefit to the ride or wear of the A/S or its components.
BTW: The only objective test I could find online was a test using truck tires on a commercial Highway Rig in 110F heat with ~15% reduction in steer tire temperature using Centramatics vs the standard balanced tires. They probably do work but do they provide meaningful improvement for the Airstream trailer setup?
I started this thread in the hope that maybe someone, somewhere may have attempted to measure vibration, shake etc. before and after a Centramatics installation on an Airstream. So far, it doesn't look like it.
(The Dynabeads option is intriguing but even if they do work on a wider tire (i.e. non-motorcycle tire) I don't know that they would be compatible with the in-tire TPMS hardware.)
Interesting discussion though.
I appreciate the wisdom & experience of the collected voices on this forum.
cheers...
-evan
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08-10-2013, 09:39 AM
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#24
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 19,977
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Golf balls...
Lets find this guy and see how this worked out for him.....
__________________
"You don't know where you've been until you leave, enjoy life" RLC
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08-10-2013, 09:49 AM
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#25
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Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,655
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Go to Dynabead's website. They address all your questions.
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
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08-10-2013, 12:11 PM
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#26
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4 Rivet Member
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Victoria
, BC
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g
Go to Dynabead's website. They address all your questions.
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Thanks.
Good info there. It would be nice if there were some sort of controlled objective tests by neutral 3rd parties to corroborate the Dynabead/Centramatic claims.
-evan
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08-10-2013, 01:17 PM
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#27
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hang up and drive
2010 30' Classic
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 238
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I ran the beads in some 315-70-17 BFGs for a while. They seemed to balance OK, but were a mess when you picked up a nail and needed a flat fixed. You always lost some when the tire was broken down, so you had better have some reserve beads. The tire tech was none too pleased having to deal with that mess either.
__________________
Kyle
2023 Ford F350 Lariat 7.3/4.30 FX4 CCLB
2010 Classic Limited 30
ProPride P3-1400
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08-10-2013, 03:49 PM
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#28
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Rivet Master
2002 19' Bambi
Lafayette
, California
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eheffa
It would be nice if there were some sort of controlled objective tests by neutral 3rd parties to corroborate the Dynabead/Centramatic claims.
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Nice, yes. Probable? No, unless somebody provides the money.
Tim
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08-10-2013, 06:12 PM
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#29
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Rivet Master
1981 31' Excella II
New Market
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
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Consider all claims as snake oil unless you have good test data to back up their claims. Don't get me started on K&N air cleaners.
Perry
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08-10-2013, 07:11 PM
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#30
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 19,977
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Just spend the bucks and buy the damn things....be be objectively obtuse, your an Airstream owner after all.
What happened Perry...too much oil?
Bob
__________________
"You don't know where you've been until you leave, enjoy life" RLC
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08-10-2013, 08:06 PM
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#31
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Rivet Master
1981 31' Excella II
New Market
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
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I am an engineer and usually don't buy something just on claims. The Centramatics probably do what they are supposed to do but do I need them? The trailer has suffered some out of balance damage in the past but seems to be doing fine now with car tires that are balanced. If I end up changing rims I might upgrade to disk brakes and Centramatics both of which have clearance problems with my rims.
Remember Slick 50 and the false claims they made. The stuff was so bad it clogged oil pump intake screens. My point is, do the research before buying anything.
I did not go to synthetic oil till we tested it at NASA on the sly. Mobil 1 is good stuff.
Perry
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08-10-2013, 08:25 PM
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#32
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Rivet Master
2002 30' Classic S/O
Garden Valley
, Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,631
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But Delo 400 is better. If you really want to know about oil go to www.bobistheoilguy.com and learn all there is to know. Then go buy some Delo.
__________________
2008 F-250 4X4 Lariat V-10
2002 Airstream Classic 30' w/SO #2074
2007 Kubota 900 RTV
1996 Ford Bronco
2007 Lincoln LT
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08-11-2013, 08:33 AM
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#33
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Rivet Master
2014 31' Classic
2015 23' International
2013 25' FB International
Apache Junction
, Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,214
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Just installed the Centramatics on my 2012 Dodge 2500HD 4x4 which had factory balanced Michelin tires installed. There is a perceptible improvement as far as smoothness. The cross country today on both interstate and secondary highways will tell the tale. You get a 30 day trial anyway.
__________________
WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC
TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell
2014 31' Classic w/ twin beds, 50 amp service, 1000 watt solar system, Centramatics, Tuson TPMS, 12" disc brakes, 16" tires & wheels
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08-11-2013, 04:12 PM
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#34
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Rivet Master
1977 Argosy 24
Currently Looking...
Milltown
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,087
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(The Dynabeads option is intriguing but even if they do work on a wider tire (i.e. non-motorcycle tire) I don't know that they would be compatible with the in-tire TPMS hardware.)
The beads will be in the bottom of the tire at a stop and get thrown to the outside when the tire is spinning. The TPMS is mounted in the valve stem which is to the inside/center of the wheel. I doubt they would ever come into contact with the balancing beads.
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08-11-2013, 04:47 PM
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#35
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Rivet Master
1981 31' Excella II
New Market
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
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Not sure where you got that from. M1 is one of the best oils out there for gas engines and yes I spend time on bobistheoilguy. It is a good sight. There is no perfect oil. Let's not highjack this thread and get back to Centramatics.
Perry
Quote:
Originally Posted by pappy19
But Delo 400 is better. If you really want to know about oil go to www.bobistheoilguy.com and learn all there is to know. Then go buy some Delo.
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08-11-2013, 06:09 PM
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#36
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Site Team
1963 26' Overlander
Hollis
, New Hampshire
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,647
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I've posted this before, anyway here's an article on centramatics that I found interesting. It claims that the "special" centramics that are sold for Airstreams (at least the ones with 15 inch wheels) are in fact smaller diameter centramics that are far less effective.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~tomorkim/Centramatics.htm
__________________
Shelly : TAC NH-6 | AIR 41359
Visit my blog!
Parts needed : Braund Antenna front tube fold down model!
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08-11-2013, 06:14 PM
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#37
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Rivet Master
1981 31' Excella II
New Market
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
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Yes they would be less effective since the diameter is smaller to accommodate the 15 inch rims. This is another reason why I am not using them.
Perry
Quote:
Originally Posted by reinergirl
I've posted this before, anyway here's an article on centramatics that I found interesting. It claims that the "special" centramics that are sold for Airstreams (at least the ones with 15 inch wheels) are in fact smaller diameter centramics that are far less effective.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~tomorkim/Centramatics.htm
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08-11-2013, 08:38 PM
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#38
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Rivet Master
2012 28' International
Olympia
, Washington
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reinergirl
I've posted this before, anyway here's an article on centramatics that I found interesting. It claims that the "special" centramics that are sold for Airstreams (at least the ones with 15 inch wheels) are in fact smaller diameter centramics that are far less effective.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~tomorkim/Centramatics.htm
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Interesting,
the author states that the AS Centramatic can ONLY offset 214 gms of imbalance. That's almost half a pound!!! That's way out of balance. I would hope to never have to deal with that much.
__________________
Dave
2014 Ram 2500 CTD
Pro Pride
Centramatics
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08-12-2013, 04:35 AM
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#39
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 19,977
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But Dave...it's a blog on the interweb, it must be accurate.
Bob
__________________
"You don't know where you've been until you leave, enjoy life" RLC
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08-12-2013, 05:17 AM
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#40
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,694
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I'd like to have the sort of information Evan wants about lots of things Airstream, but no one does that sort of testing. The RV market is too small to spend the kind of money necessary to do good testing.
So, like many decisions, it is a guesstimate and I hope my $200 was well spent.
What I really need is Centramatics for the brain so I won't be unbalanced anymore.
Evan, when you get the new Michelins, the trailer should ride smoother than with the Marathons, so if you add Centramatics at the same time, you won't be able to tell what is responsible for the improvement.
Gene
__________________
Gene
The Airstream is sold; a 2016 Nash 24M replaced it.
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