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08-31-2013, 08:16 AM
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#1
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Airstream Newbie
1978 31' Sovereign
Covington
, Louisiana
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 28
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Alternative to Centramatics
I have seen the Centramatics mentioned in this forum multiple times. I have not seen the less expensive but equally effective alternative mentioned which is balancing powder or balancing beads.
Works on the same principle as Centramatics, but only costs about $10-$15 per tire.
I have personally used Equal Balancing Powder(No not the sweetener) in 35" truck tires and the results are amazing. Another alternative is Dynabeads. There is lots of information on the internet on both products.
Make sure to reference the manufacturers application chart for either product to ensure that you install the correct amount in each tire.
Equal can be purchased at most truck parts suppliers. It comes in pre-sized packets that you just drop into a tire as the tire is being installed. Alternatively it can be blown in through the valve stem on an already mounted tire with a special installation tool.
It also eliminates a concern that I have about lug nuts loosening when installing anything such as a Centramatic, or a spacer between a hub and a wheel. It is one less thing to move and cause loosening.
Dennis
__________________
Dennis & Denise Thomas
1978 31' Sovereign
2006 Hummer H2
Hensley
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08-31-2013, 08:32 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2004 25' Classic
Prescott
, Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 623
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I have the Dyna Beads in ours. When I switched to the Vanco2 tires, I put them in. That was 4 yrs. ago. From what I can tell, the trailer rides very smooth, as there is nothing out of place inside.
__________________
Julia & Bob
W/ Deedee & Boo
AIR #30685
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08-31-2013, 09:08 AM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2014 31' Classic
2015 23' International
2013 25' FB International
Apache Junction
, Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,222
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Another alternative is the installation of disk brakes on the trailer......
__________________
WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC
TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell
2014 31' Classic w/ twin beds, 50 amp service, 1000 watt solar system, Centramatics, Tuson TPMS, 12" disc brakes, 16" tires & wheels
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08-31-2013, 09:44 AM
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#4
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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Granted the Centramatics balance the whole assembly.....installing disc brakes does nothing for an out of balance tire.
I think I'm not liking anything in my tires except the proper PSI.
Bob
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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08-31-2013, 09:45 AM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
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My concern with Centramatics is the advisory by the Never Lube bearing manufacturer to maintain zero offset in mounting the wheels, and the small offset Centramatics cause. This has been discussed many times, but I don't care to compromise running gear reliability.
So, are beads in the tires another way to fine-tune balance without another compromise? If so, which ones are most reliable, based on experience?
doug
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09-02-2013, 02:40 PM
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#6
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Airstream Newbie
1978 31' Sovereign
Covington
, Louisiana
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 28
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Equal Powder or Dynabeads will afford same benefits of Centramatics
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum
My concern with Centramatics is the advisory by the Never Lube bearing manufacturer to maintain zero offset in mounting the wheels, and the small offset Centramatics cause. This has been discussed many times, but I don't care to compromise running gear reliability.
So, are beads in the tires another way to fine-tune balance without another compromise? If so, which ones are most reliable, based on experience?
doug
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The benefits should be the same or better, mainly because the balancing material is at the outer diameter of the tire instead of closer to the hub as with the Centramatics. I have not had any issues, but I have read of one. With either the beads or the powder there is the possibility that dust from either could get caught in the schrader valve causing a leak. Equal makes a filtered schrader valve that will eliminate this possiblity.
__________________
Dennis & Denise Thomas
1978 31' Sovereign
2006 Hummer H2
Hensley
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09-02-2013, 03:04 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2013 30' Classic
Greenwood
, Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 12,111
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Are the wheels balanced at al from the factory? I don't see any weights.
I found a weight for a steel wheel rim lying beside my trailer.
I know it didn't come off one of my wheels because they are aluminum, but it did get my curiosity up.
The weights on the aluminum wheels on my pickup are on the inside only ( static balance?), but I can look through the openings in the wheels and see them.
I looked for something similar on my trailer wheels but saw nothing.
__________________
2013 Classic 30 Limited
2007 Silver Toyota Tundra Crew Max Limited 5.7 iForce
2006 Vivid Black Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
1999 Black Nissan Pathfinder LE
TAC #MS-10
WBCCI #1811, Region 6, Unit 56
Airforums #70955
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09-02-2013, 03:18 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
2009 27' FB Flying Cloud
1982 31' International
1991 35' Airstream 350
Jay
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,706
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Some tire manufacturers say not to place items inside the tire.
We have 50k on ours with Centramatics with no broken rivets, no loose lug nuts, or problems.
Drum brakes and ST tires, although not GYMs.
Regards,
JD
__________________
Jeff & Cindy
'09 27FB Flying Cloud;'82 31 International
'91 350 LE MH; '21 Interstate 24GT
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09-02-2013, 04:41 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master
1981 31' Excella II
New Market
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
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Not enough offset to matter there. If the tire was sticking out 3 or 4 inches then I would worry. Most rims have a larger tolerance on offset than the thickness of the balancer.
Perry
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum
My concern with Centramatics is the advisory by the Never Lube bearing manufacturer to maintain zero offset in mounting the wheels, and the small offset Centramatics cause. This has been discussed many times, but I don't care to compromise running gear reliability.
So, are beads in the tires another way to fine-tune balance without another compromise? If so, which ones are most reliable, based on experience?
doug
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09-02-2013, 04:44 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
1981 31' Excella II
New Market
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
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I am not for putting crap in the tire because patching it becomes a real PIA. Most likely tire plugs won't work because the beads will stick to them and not let them adhere to the tire. Also the slime stuff is a real PIA as well when you go to fix a flat. With tube type tires you just throw the tube away rather than try to patch it. With tubeless tires that can be costly. If I was a tire shop, I would not fix a tire with anything in it that would cause the patch not to stick or make it impossible to clean well enough for the patch to stick.
There are places that can balance your drums but it may cost a little. Hot rod shops balance stuff all the time. Drive shaft places can balance things as well. I like the disk brake idea. When my new tires wear out, I am seriously going to consider disk brakes and larger rims. My current rims won't allow disk brakes.
Perry
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09-03-2013, 07:46 AM
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#11
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Airstream Newbie
1978 31' Sovereign
Covington
, Louisiana
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perryg114
I am not for putting crap in the tire because patching it becomes a real PIA. Most likely tire plugs won't work because the beads will stick to them and not let them adhere to the tire. Also the slime stuff is a real PIA as well when you go to fix a flat. With tube type tires you just throw the tube away rather than try to patch it. With tubeless tires that can be costly. If I was a tire shop, I would not fix a tire with anything in it that would cause the patch not to stick or make it impossible to clean well enough for the patch to stick.
Perry
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Perry,
You are correct that Slime and Fix-a-Flat make patching a tire difficult. Because of that issue, I would not normally put them in my tires unless I was off-roading where puctures were common.
Beads or powder do not make repairs significantly more difficult. They fall to the bottom when the tire is not rotating. Plugs will not be impacted by either. To install a patch, the technician can either scoop the material out, or just rotate the tire so the hole is not on bottom. Beads are a little easier to remove than the powder. The powder is not very fine, and it doesn't stick to the tire. I have done both, it is not really an issue. If the patch is properly installed, which means normal buffing and cleaning of the rubber before the adhesive is applied, and then the patch is "stitched" (rolled) down so the edges are not lifting, then the powder or beads will have no impact on the patch.
Dennis
__________________
Dennis & Denise Thomas
1978 31' Sovereign
2006 Hummer H2
Hensley
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09-04-2013, 07:47 AM
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#12
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hang up and drive
2010 30' Classic
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv4007
Perry,
You are correct that Slime and Fix-a-Flat make patching a tire difficult. Because of that issue, I would not normally put them in my tires unless I was off-roading where puctures were common.
Beads or powder do not make repairs significantly more difficult. They fall to the bottom when the tire is not rotating. Plugs will not be impacted by either. To install a patch, the technician can either scoop the material out, or just rotate the tire so the hole is not on bottom. Beads are a little easier to remove than the powder. The powder is not very fine, and it doesn't stick to the tire. I have done both, it is not really an issue. If the patch is properly installed, which means normal buffing and cleaning of the rubber before the adhesive is applied, and then the patch is "stitched" (rolled) down so the edges are not lifting, then the powder or beads will have no impact on the patch.
Dennis
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I used the beads on my truck tires several years ago and it was a pain. In a perfect world, they worked as advertised, but our world isn't perfect. Tires pick up nails and all other sorts of road hazards and require patching. The problem lies in that the beads do not all fall to the bottom as there is an incredible amount of static cling built up inside the tire and the beads stick all over. Once the machine breaks the tire/rim bead, the "pop" causes those balancing beads GO EVERYWHERE. The tech was none too please to see the mess those things made. Then you have to go about picking them up (impossible), or have extra beads on-hand to replace what you lose.
IMHO, the only sure, reliable, and pain-free way of achieving at least tire/wheel balance (outside of Centramatics) is to have the set Road Force balanced by a Hunter Road Force Balancer (a Google search will help you find one). But this doesn't balance the brake drums.
YMMV.
__________________
Kyle
2023 Ford F350 Lariat 7.3/4.30 FX4 CCLB
2010 Classic Limited 30
ProPride P3-1400
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09-04-2013, 08:13 AM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1981 31' Excella II
New Market
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
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THere are places that would true a tire and balance it as well while on the vehicle. Personally, I am not in favor or throwing away tread to true a tire but balancing on the vehicle is a good thing. Tires are never perfectly round and they develope flat spots from sitting. I don't think there is anything wrong with centramatics and static balance is fine for trailers where you don't have side to side motion that can be felt through steering wheels. For some reason, front wheel drive cars are very sensitive to out of round and out of balance tires.
Perry
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09-04-2013, 11:43 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
2014 31' Classic
2015 23' International
2013 25' FB International
Apache Junction
, Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,222
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Since I have put the Centramatics on two Honda Gold Wing motorcycles, the current 25FB International and the Dodge truck, I am extremely pleased with the results. It was a no brainer on the bikes as no wheel weights are ever needed now after their installation, thus no weights to fall off going down the road to generate shimmy or wobble.
The Centrmatics have arrived for the new trailer to be built in January and will be installed when I switch that unit to the 16" tires and wheels.
__________________
WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC
TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell
2014 31' Classic w/ twin beds, 50 amp service, 1000 watt solar system, Centramatics, Tuson TPMS, 12" disc brakes, 16" tires & wheels
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09-05-2013, 01:08 AM
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#15
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum
My concern with Centramatics is the advisory by the Never Lube bearing manufacturer to maintain zero offset in mounting the wheels, and the small offset Centramatics cause. This has been discussed many times, but I don't care to compromise running gear reliability.
So, are beads in the tires another way to fine-tune balance without another compromise? If so, which ones are most reliable, based on experience?
doug
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Hi, if the Never Lube hubs can't handle about a .030" offset [sheet metal mounting plate] then they must be junk. What is the tolerance of a wheel, not to mention that of a tire? Remember when we were young and everyone put "Chromed Reversed Wheels" on their cars? I do, but I don't remember anyone having wheel bearing or axle problems because of it.
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
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09-05-2013, 01:14 AM
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#16
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switz
Another alternative is the installation of disk brakes on the trailer......
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Hi, it seems as though the original poster was looking for something cheaper/less expensive than Centramatics; Disc brakes goes the other way in cost. Note disc brake rotors need to be balanced too. I know that trailer drums aren't balanced, but not sure about trailer rotors.
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
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