16" wheels/LT tires

[Action]

Regarding lug nuts or bolts depending on the year .... besides dry, clean would be a desired feature of wheel fasteners. No lube, just clean and ry. Many get the dry part and miss the clean part.

>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[interstateflyer]

Originally Posted by Gene

The recommendation that you check lugnut torque at 25 and 50 miles is one of those recommendation that I doubt many people follow. How many really stop somewhere along the road after leaving home on a trip and check torque?

Recommendations that are realistic for the way people actually do things would be helpful.

I check torque when 2 things happen:
1. It is convenient, and
2. I remember.

The results are always the same—torque is correct and no loosening has occurred. I previously posted I use WD-40 to clean the threads and lubricate a bit, but I don't always remember to do that. Makes no difference, they never need tightening. Maybe it has to do with the altitude.

Gene

25, 50 and 100 are what Airstream recommends when the trailer is new or after a tire change for a flat etc.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by interstateflyer

25, 50 and 100 are what Airstream recommends when the trailer is new or after a tire change for a flat etc.

Yes, they do. I think few people actually do that. And when you have new tires put on your car or truck, do you check torque several times after you leave the tire store? Has anyone in a tire store suggested to you that you check it?

I just pulled a wheel and put it back (had to put on hubcap I forgot to do when I rotated wheels). In 2 days I go to a campground and 25 miles from home has nowhere to pull safely over nor does 50 miles nor does 100. Of course, you don't have to take a recommendation literally, but there aren't safe places to pull off the road that frequently. Checking torque 3 times seems excessive to me anyway. How many people carry a torque wrench with them anyway? It is a good idea to check it, but I would rather see recommendations based on facts and reasonable ones that people will actually follow.

Maybe this is another case of "conventional wisdom" that no one knows where it came from and no has ever proved it is wise. I can imagine a couple of guys sitting around asking "how often do you check torque?". They talk it over for a while and one comes up with the recommendation. It gets repeated over and over until the public believes it makes sense. Someone puts it in the owner's manual and then it must be true.

Gene

[SteveH]

Sort of reluctant to post this for all of the screams of incorrectness I will receive, but I typically take just the tires and wheels into the tire shop for tire work, and so I install them when I get home myself.

My procedure is I initially install them with an air impact wrench tying not to get them too tight. Then after all the wheels/tires are on the ground, I use a large cross lug wrench that I carry with me in the truck, and I tighten all the lug nuts until they squeak, and that's tight enough. I never torque them again.

Haven't had one come loose in 40+ years, but I have had to replace one stud and lug. It was on an Airstream I bought used, and I'm absolutely certain the previous owner damaged it.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, I used to torque wheels on my cars like Steve mentioned [but you have to have a feel for this] and never had any problems. As for now, on my tow vehicle and trailer, I check the torque on them before each trip and never again during this trip. If I totally remove a wheel/wheels, I will recheck it [them] at the first rest stop, camp ground or gas stop, then never again during the trip. I do carry a torque wrench with me and the proper sockets for all of my wheels and for my Equal-I-zer hitch head. On my last trip, from Lakewood to Port Angeles, My hitch was cleaned and greased at home, then re-cleaned and greased in Port Angeles. I torque my spring bar sockets at 80 lbs. The bolts were up graded to grade eight.

[Hummer]

When I got my new rims they recommended 25, 50 and 100. I pulled the rig just around the area for 25 and they needed it again. Then I pulled it to town and around town a bit and back which is about 50 miles and they had only backed off a couple pounds and when I put it on the road I did a stop about 50 and the next 50 and nothing had moved so I pretty well knew everything had mated up.

I went into a Harbor Freight and got 1/2" breaker bars (18" and 25") for like $10.00 and 12.00 respectively. For the cars I got 18" and for the primer mover 25". Also got individual deep impact sockets for a few bucks each to fit each. A couple take metric so I got sockets accordingly.

That way I know if I put them on they will come off and if some jerk with a air gun puts someone elses on I will be able to get theirs off as well. I have stopped to help several folks who the jerks had air gunned the lugs and their mfg supplied handles were bending. A piece of cake for a real tool. For those hard cases they have a 3/4" breaker bar and I may just get one with a reducer for the prime mover.

Thusly when I changed out the AS axles and went back with new lug nuts that came with the axles I started the sequence all over.

Looks like our playing is down before it got started for this summer at least. Got rear ended in Durango five weeks ago at over 30 MPH with no brakes applied before hitting me. Seat back failed in Durango and I got knocked cold. I never heard the wreck. When I came to I found the impact had me going back up seat and was heading out of the seat belts to the rear. Of course it took me several minutes to get back on the right frequency(mind was in USB and the world was on LSB for you Hams haha) as I was disoriented, confused or in one word FUBAR. Heading for third MRI this week, ears started ringing and having trouble staying awake as I no longer sleep well thusly I am not about to hook up the Sovereign and hit the road in the shape I am in.


Unless they pull the chip in the car that hit me I will never know the true speed I got tagged at but the posted limit was 35 and I have been clocking traffic on that road and heavy traffic the average speed is 38 and light traffic the average is 43. Sunday afternoon was light traffic.

Neurosurgeion says he figured what saved me was my build. I am a big kid with well developed shoulder/neck muscles from riding a mountain bike 15 miles three times a week which really keeps everything on the upper body well toned.

Another Doc put me on the bike ten years ago after third heel spur surgery from jogging. I would add that I had massive help from a Guardian Angel.

Wife has already had two spinal surgeries from getting rear ended by a F250 24 years ago. She was lucky she was not with me. I now have one of those shock absorbing receiver hitch bumpers (6"X16")from sparebumper.com which I wish I had already installed five weeks back ! ! ! ! I have a sheet of yellow/green 3M diamond reflective coming I am going to cover the 6x16 plate with as well and have decided I will never buy another vehicle without a factory installed 2" frame mounted receiver hitch.

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by SteveH

Sort of reluctant to post this for all of the screams of incorrectness I will receive, but I typically take just the tires and wheels into the tire shop for tire work, and so I install them when I get home myself.

My procedure is I initially install them with an air impact wrench tying not to get them too tight. Then after all the wheels/tires are on the ground, I use a large cross lug wrench that I carry with me in the truck, and I tighten all the lug nuts until they squeak, and that's tight enough. I never torque them again.

Haven't had one come loose in 40+ years, but I have had to replace one stud and lug. It was on an Airstream I bought used, and I'm absolutely certain the previous owner damaged it.

You're right - you're going to be taken to task.

If you have an impact wrench, it seems silly not to use a torque wrench to tighten the lug nuts. I can understand it if all you have is that X-type 4 way lug wrench, but a torque wrench is so much more precise. No more over-tightening, no more under-tightening.

I mean, come on!! A torque wrench only costs $50.

I ALWAYS check inflation pressures, and torques BEFORE I start any trip with the trailer.

[gmw photos]

I am actually a little surprised that here on this forum ( the owners of such a fancy trailer ) that more folks are not picky about getting lug nut torque correct. Yes, I am one of those that carries a torque wrench under the seat of the truck, along with a 2 foot breaker bar and all the appropriate 6 point sockets. It doesn't cost that many dollars, and it only takes a few minutes to get it all right.
As for lubing the wheel studs, just looked in my machinists guide, and I would say depending on the lube you might use, you have over torqued the fasteners by as much as double what they are spec'd for ( assuming you actually used a torque wrench ). If you just used the "farmer tight" method.....who knows how tight they are. They are most likely uneven around the pattern also, which can lead to warped brake drums or rotors. To each his own.

[switz]

The reason for using a torque wrench in a pattern and making several passes increasing the torque value slowly is to keep from warping the wheel or hub. I have seen kids at tire shops using air wrenches and fully seat each nut in one pass. Remember, it is not their vehicle!

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by CapriRacer

You're right - you're going to be taken to task.

If you have an impact wrench, it seems silly not to use a torque wrench to tighten the lug nuts. I can understand it if all you have is that X-type 4 way lug wrench, but a torque wrench is so much more precise. No more over-tightening, no more under-tightening.

I mean, come on!! A torque wrench only costs $50.

I ALWAYS check inflation pressures, and torques BEFORE I start any trip with the trailer.

Didn't say I don't have a torque wrench.....just said how I do it, and never expected any agreement either.

Like I said, I've never had one come loose that I tightened, but I have had one come loose that a "tire shop" put on with a torque wrench, but it was on a daily driver, not a trailer.

If it's of any comfort to you, I do torque all the bolts on the hitch, use lock washers, and Locktite on them too.

[jcanavera]

I've always used my own muscle with a cross wrench to tighten up the lugs prior to each trip. With the advent of new wheels and tires I borrowed my neighbors torque wrench to "do it right". As an experiment he had me torque the lugs on a wheel the way I feel is correct. We then went back with the torque wrench starting at 85 lbs and continued to move it up a pound at a time until we found where the wrench stopped clicking. To my surprise apparently my manual effort was pretty consistently applying 100 lbs of torque to the lugs, which for all intents was my goal.

Since we were headed out on a 700 mile trip, I took his wrench with me. After mounting the tires and wheels at the garage where I keep my trailer, I drove the trailer home which was about 30 miles. I checked the torque at that point and the lugs had lost about a lb. The next day we took off on our trip and I pulled over at a rest stop about 50 miles out of town. Everything was right on at 100 lbs. Checked again 100 miles further at the next rest stop and again everything was right on. Checked at 300 miles at our first overnight. Again no movement. Checked on our arrival to our final destination again no movement. I checked again this spring and found everything still where it should be. Probably will have to check at least one wheel tomorrow since the trailer is up at the local dealership to investigate a noisy wheel.

Even though my own effort is pretty good, I'm going to buy my own torque wrench to carry with me. It does give me some level of comfort, and as I get older, the body may start to weaken...


Jack

[Gene]

I pretty much do what Bob does—see post #545.

I didn't have a torque wrench until I bought the trailer. I looked around for one (often they cost more than $50), but found one on sale for about $30 at a hardware store and bought it. What I discovered was I was torquing the lugnuts far more than was recommended. It was nice to find out I was so strong, but not so nice I was overtorquing the lugnuts. The truck wheels require somewhat less torque than the trailer, so I may have been doubling the torque on them for years. With a 4 way it is easy to torque to over 150 lbs. Properly torqued lugnuts are a lot easier to get off too. Last year I watched a mechanic torque the lugnuts on the truck without a torque wrench. I told him the proper torque and he ignored me. I retorqued them when I got home. Thus, I learned always to check torque after anyone else works on the brakes or changes tires.

The shop where the mechanic overtorqued the truck wheels had changed rotors for me and then they slightly warped again, so I took it back and they solved the problem. It is possible they warped the new rotors the first time since their work practices were poor. They had them fixed at their expense. After I took the truck home and retorqued the wheels, there have been no problems. I watched the mechanic doing things so unsafe that I decided their work practices were so poor I never went back there.

I always carry a torque wrench, a complete rachet set and a box of tools sufficient to take a locomotive apart when we travel with the trailer. Fortunately no one has asked me to take a locomotive apart, but I'm ready in case they do.

Gene

[golfarch]

Andy:
Why would Jackson Center recommend 16" rims and E rated tires?

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by golfarch

Andy:
Why would Jackson Center recommend 16" rims and E rated tires?

I have no idea.

To me, "E" tires are for trucks, certainly not an Airstream trailer, THAT MUST have a soft ride.

Andy

[moosetags]

As I started this thread several years, I will now give my final report on the performance of the 16" Michelin LTs that I put on Lucy. This post will serve as a final report as we have committed to trade Lucy in on a hardly used 2012 Flying Cloud 23FB. We will make our final trip with Lucy over to Gulfport, Mississippi, in about two weeks.

That being said, this is our assessment of the tire situation for our well worn (1,380 nights/116,000 miles) 2005 Safari 25FB. We had horrible experience with Lucy's OEM 15" ST tires and the ST's that we replaced them with. Fed up with the junk trailer tire situation, we took Lucy to Jackson Center in November of 2010, and had them install a complete set of five 16" wheels and tires. We opted for the Michelin LTs.

We have now had the new 16" tires for three years. We have towed Lucy a little over 50,000 miles with the LTs. We have experienced absolutely no tire related problems. We have hardly ever had to add pressure. There is no discernible tread wear. Not a single rivet has been popped, and there is no interior damage.

Based upon my personal experience, I would highly recommend the 16" LT tire upgrade for a 25FB.

Brian

[dkottum]

This soft ride discussion poses a question.

Do the the 16" Michelin LT tires at 80 psi Airstream uses and recommends have a stiffer sidewall than my Airstream original 15" GYM ST tires at 65 psi?

I've used both on our trailer and see no evidence of damage from either. My understanding is ST tires have a very stiff sidewall, more so than LT tires, but looking for the truth, not opinions.

[polarlyse]

Thanks Brian for that fairly long term report on the LT tires. Do you keep them at the full 80psi or something less ???? Based on your experience, as well as quite a few others, I'm confident I made the right decision to go that route.

Thanks again. See ya on the road sometime.

[crispyboy]

From Brian's LT tire experience it looks as though the proof is in the pudding! It is really hard to argue with real world results of his LT tire experience.

So Brian, now you have our curiosity up - after 116,000 miles - how did your trailer hold up? Has anything worn out specifically or were you just ready for a change?
Are you going to switch to 16" LT tires, use the Michelin XL 15" tires or roll the dice on the ST tires for awhile?
Of course you must tell us more about the new trailer!

[tkowalyk]

We also have the 16"Michelin LT tires - originally bought them for our 2006 25' Safari a coupke of years ago.

When we bought our new 2013 27' Classic, we had the AS dealer transfer our old tire and rims to the new trailer.

Enough said - we have about 8,000 miles on the tires, with 3,000 miles being on the new trailer - putting another 2,500 miles in the next couple of weeks.

No problem, except the increased peace of mind.

Tom

[moosetags]

Originally Posted by polarlyse

Thanks Brian for that fairly long term report on the LT tires. Do you keep them at the full 80psi or something less ???? Based on your experience, as well as quite a few others, I'm confident I made the right decision to go that route.

Thanks again. See ya on the road sometime.

I have been running mine at 72 psi, based on Lucy's weight (7,400#).

Brian