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Old 02-15-2015, 02:10 AM   #869
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Andy--
Is there a place in Southern California that you recommend for wheel balancer installation?
Thanks.
Look at Wheel Balancer 200-221_Special from Centramatic - that's what I put on my AS. They are dynamic balancers, so you never need to spin-balance your wheels. I also put hem on my TV, and the ride is smooth.
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Old 02-15-2015, 04:13 AM   #870
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Sideways scuffing of trailer tires is probably not an issue. On my 41,000 lb Tiffin Allegro Bus with tag axle, there was no difference in tire wear between the duals or tag axle tires in the rear after 51,000 miles. Pressures were set in the tires at about 100 psi road side, 103 psi curb side. Tire size was 295/80R on 22.5 inch wheels. The weight on the six rear tires was about 27,000 lbs, the front or "steer axle" was about 14,000 lbs.

By far the front or "steer axle" tires showed more wear than the rear, but still had 10-20,000 miles remaining if the tread depth were measured.

Thus, my conclusion that the scuffing of trailer tires is inconsequential unless one is continuously driving around corners.


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Old 02-15-2015, 01:23 PM   #871
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Sideways scrubbing would be a little more of an issue with a 3 axle trailer, but still not enough to worry about or dissuade me from buying a 34' Airstream-
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Old 02-15-2015, 01:49 PM   #872
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We have a lot of tire scrub when backing our triple-axle boat trailer through a 90-degree turn into it's parking spot.

Tire scrub is easily reduced by just wetting the backing path with the garden hose or spreading a little dirt or sand. This allows the tires to slip a little and reduces the scrubbing.

In addition, this marked path can also help the driver in backing; because it provides a guide to follow when making wide sweeping turns.
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Old 02-15-2015, 03:06 PM   #873
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Just a bit of a side note: I don't agree that you will never have to balance the tire/wheel with Centramatics. ....Maybe not RE-balance. IIRC, Centramatics are capable of offsetting a 3.5oz imbalance. I have seen some WILDLY out of balance drums/hubs on trailers. It is possible to exceed the Centramatic capability if hub, drum, tire and wheel are mounted with additive (relative same point) heavy spot. I still balance the tire and wheel when new tires are installed. You at least take out much of the imbalance of tire and wheel that way, and shouldn't have to re-balance for rotations, etc.
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Old 02-21-2015, 02:15 PM   #874
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Just a bit of a side note: I don't agree that you will never have to balance the tire/wheel with Centramatics. ....Maybe not RE-balance. IIRC, Centramatics are capable of offsetting a 3.5oz imbalance. I have seen some WILDLY out of balance drums/hubs on trailers. It is possible to exceed the Centramatic capability if hub, drum, tire and wheel are mounted with additive (relative same point) heavy spot. I still balance the tire and wheel when new tires are installed. You at least take out much of the imbalance of tire and wheel that way, and shouldn't have to re-balance for rotations, etc.
Absolutely.

Trailer tires wear differently than truck or car tires. On those the drive tires wear faster than the steering tires, but on a trailer they wear the same. There's less reason to rotate trailer tires because of that, but I do rotate to get full use of the spare. We've had Centramatics on the trailer wheels for years and they have never worn unevenly.

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Old 02-26-2015, 03:47 PM   #875
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Wading into tire threads is never wise. However, regarding de-rating of tires for trailer use, this is what would appear to make sense to me (hopefully I'm not just repeating what others have said:

LTX tires (P metric): de-rate by 10% due to mis-application
LT tires: de-rate by 10% due to mis-application
ST tires: no need to de-rate (no mis-application)

In addition to the above, it would be great to leave an adequate safety margin of an additional 10-15% for perfect peace of mind.
Passenger tires must have their load capacity derated by dividing by 1.10 when being used in trailer application.
No such de-rating need be applied to LT tires.

Now a 15% reserve load i.e. the actual load is no more than 85% of the load capacity of the tire when inflated to a specified level.

I have posted the technical reasons for Running multi-axle trailer tires at the inflation on their sidewall.

Fictional example with made-up numbers

Measured loads on a trailer
RF 3200 LF 2700
RR 2900 LR 3100

1, Front axle use 3200# consult Load Inflation table and confirm the tire can carry at least 115% of 3200 or 3680 when inflated to the tire sidewall max
2. Rear axle use 3100# so can the tire carry 3565# ?
3. You confirm your 345/65R17 LR-E tires are rated for 3700# at 80 psi
4. You are good to go when you inflate all your tires to 80 psi.


BUT lets say your tires are 300/75R16 LR-D at 65 psi which are only rated for 3000#
If you were your brother in- law who refuses to learn the actual individual tire loading you might think all is OK as the CAT scale weight reading is 11,900 or 2975# per tire. He also doesn't think any reserve load is needed and he also doesn't like the rough ride he gets with 65 so reduces his inflation just a bit to 60 psi as that is "close enough".
Is it any surprise that late in the summer after never checking his tire pressure he has two tread separations? Of course the failures are the tire's fault.
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Old 02-27-2015, 04:25 AM   #876
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16" wheels/LT tires

11,900 lbs on four wheels suggests a trailer weight of over 13,000 lbs. What AS weighs this much?

My ST trailer tires are rated for 2640 lbs each or 10,560 lbs. De-rating by 10% gives 9,500 lbs capacity and as my AS crosses the scales about 7200 lbs loaded, it would seem the standard factory wheel/tire combination is entirely adequate.
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Old 02-27-2015, 05:09 AM   #877
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11,900 lbs on four wheels suggests a trailer weight of over 13,000 lbs. What AS weighs this much?

My ST trailer tires are rated for 2640 lbs each or 10,560 lbs. De-rating by 10% gives 9,500 lbs capacity and as my AS crosses the scales about 7200 lbs loaded, it would seem the standard factory wheel/tire combination is entirely adequate.

In principle, one will know adequacy once a TT has been weighed at each wheel position.

Not otherwise.
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Old 02-27-2015, 06:08 AM   #878
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11,900 lbs on four wheels suggests a trailer weight of over 13,000 lbs. What AS weighs this much?

My ST trailer tires are rated for 2640 lbs each or 10,560 lbs. De-rating by 10% gives 9,500 lbs capacity and as my AS crosses the scales about 7200 lbs loaded, it would seem the standard factory wheel/tire combination is entirely adequate.
On paper but on a camper I would De-rate a ST tire 20%.
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Old 02-27-2015, 06:10 AM   #879
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11,900 lbs on four wheels suggests a trailer weight of over 13,000 lbs. What AS weighs this much?

My ST trailer tires are rated for 2640 lbs each or 10,560 lbs. De-rating by 10% gives 9,500 lbs capacity and as my AS crosses the scales about 7200 lbs loaded, it would seem the standard factory wheel/tire combination is entirely adequate.
As pointed out, the problem is that the loading on each tire is different - that is, there is side to side and front to rear variation.

For trailers, I use a conservative 15% variation, so while you think 9500# is plenty of capacity for a 7200# trailer, the worst tire could be seeing 2070#, which is a lot closer to the derated 2376# than you think.

In other words, you have to be careful with the math.
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Old 02-27-2015, 06:58 AM   #880
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I suspect what I need to do is measure each wheel on some friends race car set up. I am somewhat mystified how the wheel loads could be so varied in view of their location and the type of suspension employed.

But, discussing the theoretical is good, I simply need to weigh each wheel individually. Gosh, this thread could get expensive....
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Old 02-27-2015, 07:52 AM   #881
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There is an implication in throughout this thread that there is the same testing in LT tires as in ST which I flatly reject. In fact despite years of research and some off the record conversations with tire engineers at Michelin, Goodyear and Pirelli, I am convinced that ST tires are cheap copies of LT tires with less of everything and the load ratings are inferred. Bottom line is the advice to be more conservative with ST is in my experience very sound; and the similar advice that a theoretical margin needs to be carried on the basis of the highest loaded tire is also sound. Also remember as the NFL discovered that pressure changes with temperature. All these recommendations are at a nominal STP which is 68 deg. So a correctly inflated tire will read about 1.5 psi less for every 10 degrees below 68. Similarly above. And comfort is not a factor that the tire construction can accommodate. So if you lower your pressure below the rated number as adjusted for temperature, you do so at your peril.

BTDT and I have actual scars to prove it. Left side front trailer tire delaminated because the load on that tire was above maximum; touched the rear one in the process of changing the front and it exploded. The Problem: Race car trailer with 3 N2 bottles lashed to the left side wall. Overall trailer was 10,100 lbs so divided by 4=2525 per wheel. Added a rough 10% and inflated LRE to maximum to accommodate roughly 2700 lbs. Actually front left was 3300 when I tested the same set up later.
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Old 02-27-2015, 08:58 AM   #882
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In August 2013, I acquired two sets of four individual wheel scales with each set having a digital display and print out of the results. The scales were rated to be accurate to the pound due to the lower weight capacity. The vendor was A & A Scales sales in Prospect Park, NJ and their part number was:

PWW-16K set of (4) 5,000 pound portable scales and AX-5 indicator with built in printer

There was a small discount for buying two seta at once.

The two sets weigh enough to be left at home when not in use as each wheel scale is close to 25 pounds.

PWW-13K

Thus one set is used for the four trailer tires and the second set gets the tongue jack or the tow vehicle.

I found that our 2013 25FB International Serenity curb side rear tire was carrying 200 pounds more than the other three tires. A friend with a 25FB noted he has replaced that specific tire nearly twice as often as the other three.

Here are the results on our 31' Classic at both the CAT scales and then my scales. It is interesting that the curbside rear tire has the heaviest load on a different model Airstream.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Airstream Classic scale results 29APR2014.pdf (32.8 KB, 43 views)
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