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Old 07-19-2013, 01:45 PM   #533
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The SenDel recommendation for torque on their wheels is 100 foot pounds.

I just checked the Airstream Parts manual for the 2013 Internationals which includes the Eddie Bauer models. Both the standard 15" Airstream wheel and the 16" SenDel wheel use the same lug nuts (part number 400923) and stainless steel center cap (part number 400844-01). See page I-73 in the manual.
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:00 AM   #534
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The SenDel recommendation for torque on their wheels is 100 foot pounds.
Makes sense to me. I started on this trip at 90 fp and needed to tighten up again after the usual check at about 25 and 50 miles. I tried 95 with the same results. I went to 100 fp and they are still tight after 600 miles. 100 will be my setting from now on.
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Old 07-20-2013, 06:52 AM   #535
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Just an FYI on lug nut torque.

First, the torque required is a "moving" torque - that is the sliding friction component, so the torque wrench has to be turning the nut when being tighten to get the proper value.

Second, if you check already tightened lugnuts, be aware that slightly undertorqued nuts can still give good values.

Third, lubricating the studs and the lugnuts makes them slide easier and increases the stretch (and the stress) on the stud for a given torque. You should use less torque if you lube them - and the amount less varies on what lube you use.

Fourth, if you consistently get lugnuts that need tightening, use a higher initial torque. I've added torque in 10 foot-pound increments until they no longer loosened up.

And lastly, I recommend that before EVERY major tow, the inflation pressure and the torque on the lugnuts be checked - tow vehicle and trailer (including spares!) I'd also make it a habit of running your hand around the circumference of every tire, checking for bulges in the tread. (Wear gloves!!) If you find a bulge, replace the tire immediately.
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:15 AM   #536
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Tire pressure

I check my tire pressure before starting every tow. I have PressurePro sensors and I have found them right on with my expensive brass gauge. The sensors have saved me damage several times, either from tire failure or foreign object damage.

I also have a pump that automatically shuts off within 1/2 psi of a selected pressure which is handy since I can start the pump and go do other things while it runs.

I check the PressurePro underway at red lights or on straight stretches of road for roughly equal pressure increase. Shady side usually a pound less pressure, especially in hot weather, because of sun heating.

My new Michelin tires have the least pressure rise when running of any of the tires I have had on the trailer over the last 8 years.
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:40 PM   #537
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I had one E-range Carlisle on an alloy wheel that has never been on the ground. I'm using that for a spare. If I need it, I'll just keep my speed down. That is the advantage of independent suspension, each axle adapts to the tire diameter.
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Old 07-21-2013, 11:38 AM   #538
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The recommendation that you check lugnut torque at 25 and 50 miles is one of those recommendation that I doubt many people follow. How many really stop somewhere along the road after leaving home on a trip and check torque?

Recommendations that are realistic for the way people actually do things would be helpful.

I check torque when 2 things happen:
1. It is convenient, and
2. I remember.

The results are always the same—torque is correct and no loosening has occurred. I previously posted I use WD-40 to clean the threads and lubricate a bit, but I don't always remember to do that. Makes no difference, they never need tightening. Maybe it has to do with the altitude.

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Old 07-21-2013, 02:23 PM   #539
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The recommendation that you check lugnut torque at 25 and 50 miles is one of those recommendation that I doubt many people follow. How many really stop somewhere along the road after leaving home on a trip and check torque?

Recommendations that are realistic for the way people actually do things would be helpful.

I check torque when 2 things happen:
1. It is convenient, and
2. I remember.

The results are always the same—torque is correct and no loosening has occurred. I previously posted I use WD-40 to clean the threads and lubricate a bit, but I don't always remember to do that. Makes no difference, they never need tightening. Maybe it has to do with the altitude.

Gene
It may also have to do with the fact that WD40 is a relative poor lubricant... while most people use it for that, it's more water displacement/penetrant and tends to clean off lubricant that may already be there...
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Old 07-21-2013, 09:50 PM   #540
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This has been the subject of many threads on the Racing sites over the years. Torque specs are given "dry" where the inherent tension between the threads are the means by which the wheel is held against the hub. the moment you release that tension with a lubricant you change the value of the torque. In any load stressed environment that is deemed by the knowledgeable to render a significant decrease in safety. Generally the conclusion is that regular cleaning of the threads inside and out is sufficient to prevent this damage. Which as you can appreciate on a race car we are significantly more prone to such damage. Over 20 years of track experience I have only had one damaged stud on a race car (my fault) and one on the trailer in the circumstances described. I solved the car issue with an easily replaced stud but on the trailer I had to use a tap to repair it.

I've done some research on using anti-seize compound on the lug nuts and I was wrong in my recommendation. Vlamgat, you are completely right and I appreciate your setting me straight. I still like anti-seize for the other things that I suggested, but not for lug nuts or bolts.

Thanks,

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Old 07-21-2013, 10:40 PM   #541
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Regarding lug nuts or bolts depending on the year .... besides dry, clean would be a desired feature of wheel fasteners. No lube, just clean and ry. Many get the dry part and miss the clean part.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:24 PM   #542
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Originally Posted by Gene View Post
The recommendation that you check lugnut torque at 25 and 50 miles is one of those recommendation that I doubt many people follow. How many really stop somewhere along the road after leaving home on a trip and check torque?

Recommendations that are realistic for the way people actually do things would be helpful.

I check torque when 2 things happen:
1. It is convenient, and
2. I remember.

The results are always the same—torque is correct and no loosening has occurred. I previously posted I use WD-40 to clean the threads and lubricate a bit, but I don't always remember to do that. Makes no difference, they never need tightening. Maybe it has to do with the altitude.

Gene
25, 50 and 100 are what Airstream recommends when the trailer is new or after a tire change for a flat etc.
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Old 07-22-2013, 08:41 AM   #543
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25, 50 and 100 are what Airstream recommends when the trailer is new or after a tire change for a flat etc.
Yes, they do. I think few people actually do that. And when you have new tires put on your car or truck, do you check torque several times after you leave the tire store? Has anyone in a tire store suggested to you that you check it?

I just pulled a wheel and put it back (had to put on hubcap I forgot to do when I rotated wheels). In 2 days I go to a campground and 25 miles from home has nowhere to pull safely over nor does 50 miles nor does 100. Of course, you don't have to take a recommendation literally, but there aren't safe places to pull off the road that frequently. Checking torque 3 times seems excessive to me anyway. How many people carry a torque wrench with them anyway? It is a good idea to check it, but I would rather see recommendations based on facts and reasonable ones that people will actually follow.

Maybe this is another case of "conventional wisdom" that no one knows where it came from and no has ever proved it is wise. I can imagine a couple of guys sitting around asking "how often do you check torque?". They talk it over for a while and one comes up with the recommendation. It gets repeated over and over until the public believes it makes sense. Someone puts it in the owner's manual and then it must be true.

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Old 07-22-2013, 09:05 AM   #544
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Sort of reluctant to post this for all of the screams of incorrectness I will receive, but I typically take just the tires and wheels into the tire shop for tire work, and so I install them when I get home myself.

My procedure is I initially install them with an air impact wrench tying not to get them too tight. Then after all the wheels/tires are on the ground, I use a large cross lug wrench that I carry with me in the truck, and I tighten all the lug nuts until they squeak, and that's tight enough. I never torque them again.

Haven't had one come loose in 40+ years, but I have had to replace one stud and lug. It was on an Airstream I bought used, and I'm absolutely certain the previous owner damaged it.
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Old 07-22-2013, 12:40 PM   #545
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Hi, I used to torque wheels on my cars like Steve mentioned [but you have to have a feel for this] and never had any problems. As for now, on my tow vehicle and trailer, I check the torque on them before each trip and never again during this trip. If I totally remove a wheel/wheels, I will recheck it [them] at the first rest stop, camp ground or gas stop, then never again during the trip. I do carry a torque wrench with me and the proper sockets for all of my wheels and for my Equal-I-zer hitch head. On my last trip, from Lakewood to Port Angeles, My hitch was cleaned and greased at home, then re-cleaned and greased in Port Angeles. I torque my spring bar sockets at 80 lbs. The bolts were up graded to grade eight.
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:00 AM   #546
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When I got my new rims they recommended 25, 50 and 100. I pulled the rig just around the area for 25 and they needed it again. Then I pulled it to town and around town a bit and back which is about 50 miles and they had only backed off a couple pounds and when I put it on the road I did a stop about 50 and the next 50 and nothing had moved so I pretty well knew everything had mated up.

I went into a Harbor Freight and got 1/2" breaker bars (18" and 25") for like $10.00 and 12.00 respectively. For the cars I got 18" and for the primer mover 25". Also got individual deep impact sockets for a few bucks each to fit each. A couple take metric so I got sockets accordingly.

That way I know if I put them on they will come off and if some jerk with a air gun puts someone elses on I will be able to get theirs off as well. I have stopped to help several folks who the jerks had air gunned the lugs and their mfg supplied handles were bending. A piece of cake for a real tool. For those hard cases they have a 3/4" breaker bar and I may just get one with a reducer for the prime mover.

Thusly when I changed out the AS axles and went back with new lug nuts that came with the axles I started the sequence all over.

Looks like our playing is down before it got started for this summer at least. Got rear ended in Durango five weeks ago at over 30 MPH with no brakes applied before hitting me. Seat back failed in Durango and I got knocked cold. I never heard the wreck. When I came to I found the impact had me going back up seat and was heading out of the seat belts to the rear. Of course it took me several minutes to get back on the right frequency(mind was in USB and the world was on LSB for you Hams haha) as I was disoriented, confused or in one word FUBAR. Heading for third MRI this week, ears started ringing and having trouble staying awake as I no longer sleep well thusly I am not about to hook up the Sovereign and hit the road in the shape I am in.


Unless they pull the chip in the car that hit me I will never know the true speed I got tagged at but the posted limit was 35 and I have been clocking traffic on that road and heavy traffic the average speed is 38 and light traffic the average is 43. Sunday afternoon was light traffic.

Neurosurgeion says he figured what saved me was my build. I am a big kid with well developed shoulder/neck muscles from riding a mountain bike 15 miles three times a week which really keeps everything on the upper body well toned.

Another Doc put me on the bike ten years ago after third heel spur surgery from jogging. I would add that I had massive help from a Guardian Angel.

Wife has already had two spinal surgeries from getting rear ended by a F250 24 years ago. She was lucky she was not with me. I now have one of those shock absorbing receiver hitch bumpers (6"X16")from sparebumper.com which I wish I had already installed five weeks back ! ! ! ! I have a sheet of yellow/green 3M diamond reflective coming I am going to cover the 6x16 plate with as well and have decided I will never buy another vehicle without a factory installed 2" frame mounted receiver hitch.
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