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Old 07-12-2013, 12:23 AM   #519
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Has anybody used Les Schwab tires? In a LT 16?
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Old 07-12-2013, 07:28 AM   #520
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Originally Posted by switz View Post
I installed Centramatics and the 15" Michelins on the 25FB International after getting it home. That trailer has a GVW of 7,300 pounds and a tongue weight loaded of 1,175 pounds. That means the trailer axles are supporting about 6,125 pounds. The 10% derated capacity of the four 15" Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires at 50psi is 7,932 pounds which is a substantial safety margin exceeding 25%.

We have now ordered a 2014 27FB Classic which has a GVW of 9,000 pounds and perhaps will have a 1,100 pound tongue weight. For conversation purposes, the axles would be supporting about 7,900 pounds. Thus the 15" Michelins would have no safety margin if the trailer were fully loaded.

That means that I will order five Michelin LT 225/75R16RE M/S2 tires with SenDel T03-66655T wheels just like Airstream will install on the Eddie Bauer models or install on a trailer at the factory. The four 16" Michelin tires have a load capacity of 10,720 pounds at 80psi. That means we have a load safety factor exceeding 35%.

I selected the M/S2 over the XPS Rib for the wet braking characteristics and the Green X rating on the tire.
I just want to point out that there is side to side and front to rear variation in the loads on tires. It's the worst case that is important.

Caution, your safety factor might not be as large as you think.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:00 AM   #521
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While the safety factor might not be 35%, the Michelin 16" tires are rated at a heavier load capacity (2,680 pounds) than the standard GYM ST 15"tires (2,540 pounds). Therefore, there is a greater safety margin with the Michelins than the GYM tires in terms of load capacity.

Michelin tires have not been exhibiting failures like the GYM ST tires have on this forum and other trailer related forums. I had a spare GYM ST tire that had never been on the ground (inflated to recommended pressure) delaminate on my motorcycle trailer. The tread just came off in my hand.

I am considering getting a set of eight wheel weight scales that would allow me to verify both left and right as well as fore and aft loads on the the tires when the trailer and truck are loaded for the road. While these scales are not cheap, neither is the damage caused by a bad tire failure due to overloading. This system would also allow for more precise placement of "stuff" in both vehicles to keep left and right balance on the axles of both vehicles for better handling.

I could also compensate for the fact there is more of me than there is of my wife.
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:22 AM   #522
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John,
I always like to take an acid brush and brush some graphite-based anti-seize compound on lug nuts. As a matter of fact, I use the stuff on any engine or drive train assembly unless it is something that should have thread locking compound or a Teflon sealant (like engine head). Anything related to a marine engine (outboard or inboard) should have the anti-seize too.

You don't have to put it on the lug nuts every time, but every third time, wouldn't hurt. This will eliminate galling, rusting, seizing, etc. It will also ensure a more correct torque value.

Steve
This has been the subject of many threads on the Racing sites over the years. Torque specs are given "dry" where the inherent tension between the threads are the means by which the wheel is held against the hub. the moment you release that tension with a lubricant you change the value of the torque. In any load stressed environment that is deemed by the knowledgeable to render a significant decrease in safety. Generally the conclusion is that regular cleaning of the threads inside and out is sufficient to prevent this damage. Which as you can appreciate on a race car we are significantly more prone to such damage. Over 20 years of track experience I have only had one damaged stud on a race car (my fault) and one on the trailer in the circumstances described. I solved the car issue with an easily replaced stud but on the trailer I had to use a tap to repair it.
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:28 AM   #523
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Originally Posted by switz View Post
I am considering getting a set of eight wheel weight scales that would allow me to verify both left and right as well as fore and aft loads on the the tires when the trailer and truck are loaded for the road. While these scales are not cheap, neither is the damage caused by a bad tire failure due to overloading. This system would also allow for more precise placement of "stuff" in both vehicles to keep left and right balance on the axles of both vehicles for better handling.

I could also compensate for the fact there is more of me than there is of my wife.
Actually you do not need 8 scales as this is probably a $2K investment at least. 4 will do and are much easier to manage. The amount of leverage that the trailer will impose on the hitch because its 2 inches higher when sitting on the scales will be immaterial in the exercise. And vice versa when the truck is on the scales. But this is the very best way to ensure the L/R and F/B loading is within the range for which you are looking to achieve. I was staggered to find the real load on my rear wheels when I used the CAT scales at a Pilot Truck stop; and how little safety margin there was to handle road and temperature conditions. I still do not know my L/R loading on the truck but suspect it too is significantly driver side loaded.
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Old 07-12-2013, 05:19 PM   #524
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The torque on OEM wheels at the beginning of the 2008 model year was 120 lbs. During the year they changed wheel suppliers and these were to be torqued at 110 lbs. I would imagine the torque recommendation for several years before that was 120.

I spray WD-40 on the lugs and nuts to clean them; they also go on easier.

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Old 07-12-2013, 05:29 PM   #525
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The torque on OEM wheels at the beginning of the 2008 model year was 120 lbs. During the year they changed wheel suppliers and these were to be torqued at 110 lbs. I would imagine the torque recommendation for several years before that was 120.

I spray WD-40 on the lugs and nuts to clean them; they also go on easier.

Gene
Lubing the lugs and nuts before torquing is a BAD idea. Torque values are based on dry assembly. Lubrication allows you to seriously overtorque them.
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:55 PM   #526
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By the way, in reference to my last post above. I have always torqued my wheel lugs on this trailer to 85 foot pounds as specified by ALCOA for my old wheels. I have an 85 foot pound torque stick. I also have a 100 foot pound maximum torque wrench which has been set to 85 fp each time I mount a wheel. I check torque before every trip of any distance. The mechanic who packed my bearings is well aware of the torque spec and I was standing there when he did the work.

That leaves me puzzled as to why those two lugs galled when the remaining 4 were just fine.

There is no published spec for my new Sendel wheels. I torqued them to 90 fp.
John, Tredit who sold me my Sendell's told me 120 lbs. That seemed high to me so I compromised to 100.

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Old 07-12-2013, 07:03 PM   #527
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My ALCOA wheels did just fine for years torqued to 85 as specified in my trailer manual. I think 90 is plenty for me for my present wheels. I have never had a lug nut appreciably change tension at 85. The other three hubs have always been at 85 and are fine.

Usually, 120 fp is for steel wheels that have some spring. For solid cast wheels, I prefer to stay under 100.
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:14 AM   #528
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When all else fails, give Jackson Center a call and ask what torque value they use on the Eddie Bauer models with the SenDel wheels (or when they install the 16" Michelins and SenDel wheels as a retrofit for a customer having them installed by Jackson Center. I plan to do so before installing the SenDel wheels on the new trailer.

BTW, both the 16" T03-66655BM and 16" T03-66655T SenDel wheels (used by Airstream) are rated for 3,580 pounds at 80psi while the identical appearance and bolt circle 15" T03-56655BM and 15" T03-56655T SenDel wheels are rated for 2,830 pounds @ 80psi. This SenDel link shows these wheels mounted on several Airstream trailers:

T03SM | Sendel Wheels
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Old 07-13-2013, 08:41 PM   #529
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First tow

I towed the trailer to the wash rack, to inspection, and home, a total of about 25 miles. I had the tires at 75# and the outside temperature was 105 degrees. First impression was that the trailer rolled easier than on the Carlisle Es and was very stable.

I checked the disc temperature with my infrared and all discs were very close to 200 degrees when I arrived, including the set of brake pads that I had replaced. Each tire was at 81 psi, a very consistent pressure rise and each tire was at about 120 degrees.
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:49 PM   #530
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As of this morning, I purchased the Michelin 225/75/R16E and Sendel T03, cost for five tires, rims, installed with all their lifetime warranty stuff at Discount tire was $2105. Breakdown on cost before warranty ( optional ) tires $225, Sendel Rims with caps and lugs $135. I am sure there are better prices but I needed the conversion to this size for use on a 30ft Classic ltd I am picking up 950 miles end of month. Through this forum, and an active member, Larry, plus calling the factory for back up advise, this should work, also the torque spec is 100lbs.
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Old 07-18-2013, 06:45 PM   #531
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Usually, 120 fp is for steel wheels that have some spring. For solid cast wheels, I prefer to stay under 100.
Hi, the wheel torque specs on my Safari are from 110 to 120 ft lbs. I torque them at the max of 120 ft lbs. For my steel wheel spare, it is supposed to be torqued at 90 ft lbs; I haven't done this yet because I have never used my spare.

[my Lincoln aluminum wheels are torqued at 150 ft lbs]
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:42 PM   #532
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This has been the subject of many threads on the Racing sites over the years. Torque specs are given "dry" where the inherent tension between the threads are the means by which the wheel is held against the hub. the moment you release that tension with a lubricant you change the value of the torque. In any load stressed environment that is deemed by the knowledgeable to render a significant decrease in safety. Generally the conclusion is that regular cleaning of the threads inside and out is sufficient to prevent this damage. Which as you can appreciate on a race car we are significantly more prone to such damage. Over 20 years of track experience I have only had one damaged stud on a race car (my fault) and one on the trailer in the circumstances described. I solved the car issue with an easily replaced stud but on the trailer I had to use a tap to repair it.
Vlamgat,

I'm never too old to learn something new. I'll look into this some more.

Steve
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