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11-03-2014, 11:04 AM
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#741
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Rivet Master
Port Orchard
, Washington
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lsbrodsky
I am sticking with 110 since that was what Airstream recommended when I first researched putting 16's on my rig.
Larry
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I believe that is the most sensible solution. Since it is a fairly low number among those posted here, and considering the fact the Airstream, who provides the drums and studs that the lug nuts are mounted on, recommends it, I think it is a safe solution. I find it unlikely that a reputable dealer would sell a wheel that would crack with that low a torque. Centramatics are just a flat thin plate under the wheel and logically should have no effect.
Ken
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11-03-2014, 12:11 PM
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#742
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Moderator
2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
2012 23' FB Flying Cloud
2005 25' Safari
Santa Rosa Beach
, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,153
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Unless someone has a convincing argument to the contrary, I plan on going with the 110 ft-lbs lug nut torque value. Since I will be using the OEM lug bolt and lug nut, this seems to be the best course.
Brian
__________________
SuEllyn & Brian McCabe
WBCCI #3628 -- AIR #14872 -- TAC #FL-7
2015 FC 25' FB (Lucy) with ProPride
2020 Silverado 2500 (Vivian)
2023 Rivian R1T (Opal)
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11-03-2014, 12:26 PM
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#743
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retired USA/USAF
2001 30' Excella
Somerset
, New Jersey
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,418
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SOLD at 110 lbs.
__________________
Roger in NJ
" Democracy is the worst form of government. Except for all the rest"
Winston Churchill 1948
TAC - NJ 18
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11-03-2014, 12:36 PM
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#744
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Site Team
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere
, South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,436
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Pound / Feet, or shall we really stir it up and discuss the same in Newton Meters?
But keep in mind periodic checking is a good thing or else:
Ya picked a fine time to leave me Loose Wheel, com'on sing along
__________________
S/OS #001 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Dexter 4 Piston Disc Brakes, Carslile Actuator, Equal-I-Zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook. BMV-712. DEMCO 21K Lb Cast Iron coupler
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11-03-2014, 01:13 PM
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#745
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Rivet Master
Port Orchard
, Washington
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCinSC2
Pound / Feet, or shall we really stir it up and discuss the same in Newton Meters?
But keep in mind periodic checking is a good thing or else:
Ya picked a fine time to leave me Loose Wheel, com'on sing along
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Here this will clear it up for sure.
Foot-pounds and pound-feet—what’s the difference? | Mac's Motor City Garage
Does the fact that apparently we've been using improper phraseology mean the whole thread needs to be deleted? or have we?
What have we really been talking about?
Why didn't the Brits straighten out the English language before they sold it to us? I wonder how many pounds (or feet?) we paid for the rights to use it.
And on the other end of the body, we have pound head.
Ken
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11-03-2014, 03:16 PM
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#746
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Moderator
2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
2012 23' FB Flying Cloud
2005 25' Safari
Santa Rosa Beach
, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,153
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SuEllyn and I spent some time this afternoon mounting Lucy's new 16" tires and wheels. All we very smoothly and we completed the whole exchange in a little over an hour using Legos to lift the wheels. The Centramatics are installed. We are torqued to 110 ft lbs and inflated to 72 psi.
Brian
__________________
SuEllyn & Brian McCabe
WBCCI #3628 -- AIR #14872 -- TAC #FL-7
2015 FC 25' FB (Lucy) with ProPride
2020 Silverado 2500 (Vivian)
2023 Rivian R1T (Opal)
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11-03-2014, 05:04 PM
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#747
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Rivet Master
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W
, New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,402
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Congrats, Brian and SuEllyn!
Any pics of installation of the centramatics?
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11-03-2014, 05:12 PM
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#748
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Rivet Master
Port Orchard
, Washington
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveSueMac
Congrats, Brian and SuEllyn!
Any pics of installation of the centramatics?
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There's not much to it. You simply place the holes in the centramatics over the lug studs, before you place the tire over them. If I remember right, there is an inside and an outside, but that's explained in the short instructions.
Ken
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11-03-2014, 05:30 PM
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#749
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Site Team
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere
, South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag&Au
Here this will clear it up for sure.
Foot-pounds and pound-feet—what’s the difference? | Mac's Motor City Garage
Does the fact that apparently we've been using improper phraseology mean the whole thread needs to be deleted? or have we?
What have we really been talking about?
Why didn't the Brits straighten out the English language before they sold it to us? I wonder how many pounds (or feet?) we paid for the rights to use it.
And on the other end of the body, we have pound head.
Ken
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Ken,
How 'bout that one, one for the book.
And the concern could also go to our vehicles, all types. How many times do you see tire work done with air guns set on full stun, or maybe a torque stick vs. a trained use of a torque wrench as the final tightening. But the other one i've seen is the vehicle actually rolling as the torque wrench is being used buts its just rolling back and forth.
Maybe the new Airstreamer's camp attire will be a torque wrench on his belt like we used to carry a slide rule.
Thanks,
Gary
__________________
S/OS #001 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Dexter 4 Piston Disc Brakes, Carslile Actuator, Equal-I-Zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook. BMV-712. DEMCO 21K Lb Cast Iron coupler
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11-03-2014, 05:46 PM
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#750
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Moderator
2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
2012 23' FB Flying Cloud
2005 25' Safari
Santa Rosa Beach
, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,153
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The Centramatics are super simple. You just slip it over the lug nuts with the the bead toward the wheel drum.
Here's a picture of the Centramatic on the ground, and then on the wheel drum before the wheel and tire were mounted.
Brian
__________________
SuEllyn & Brian McCabe
WBCCI #3628 -- AIR #14872 -- TAC #FL-7
2015 FC 25' FB (Lucy) with ProPride
2020 Silverado 2500 (Vivian)
2023 Rivian R1T (Opal)
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11-03-2014, 05:57 PM
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#751
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Rivet Master
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W
, New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,402
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Great. Thanks!
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11-03-2014, 06:24 PM
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#752
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Rivet Master
2019 23' International
La Habra
, California
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,019
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Thanks for showing which side is out Brian. I ordered my set today. After meeting Bob, from Lakewood/Oregon last Friday, we talked about the Centramatics and he convinced me to use them on our 20 FC.
Thanks Bob and it was nice meeting you
Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums
__________________
2019 GMC Sierra Denali
2019 23CB International
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11-03-2014, 06:34 PM
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#753
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Rivet Master
2013 27' FB International
El Dorado Hills
, California
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,023
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I recall some debate regarding centramatics and the new zero offset bearings installed on late model Airstream trailers. Was it found to be okay?
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11-03-2014, 06:36 PM
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#754
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Rivet Master
2010 28' Flying Cloud
Lower Alabama
, USA
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markdoane
As first stated by theOrca, the correct answer is based on the grade of the bolt/stud that is being stretched to some point below it's maximum elastic torque limit.
The bolt needs to stretch slightly in order to stay tight. By stretching the bolt you are effectively loading he joint between the wheel and hub, so you don't need to use lockwashers or threadlockers.
But if you overdo it, beyond the elastic limit and into the plastic range, you will permanently deform the bolt/stud and it may snap off.
So the three things that matters in this discussion is the metallury of the stud, the hardness of the wheel (steel or aluminum), and the condition (dry) of the threads. Everything else is immaterial.
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Amen Mark
By the way, some of the aluminum rims use a steel insert embedded in the lug bolt holes. The wheels supplied with my 2010 model have them and therefore I would be comfortable with using the Airstream recommendation if the new wheels also had the steel inserts.
__________________
Alan
"If you must choose between two evils, pick the one you never tried before!"
Air #64439
Southeastern Camping Unit WBCCI #5033
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11-03-2014, 07:40 PM
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#755
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Rivet Master
Port Orchard
, Washington
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherzi
I recall some debate regarding centramatics and the new zero offset bearings installed on late model Airstream trailers. Was it found to be okay?
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In the discussion I remember, it was pointed out that the thickness of the flat part of the centramatics was insignificant in the measurements of offset.
So, yes it was deemed to be OK. I have heard no concern based on anything but speculation.
Ken
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11-03-2014, 08:20 PM
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#756
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Rivet Master
2010 28' Flying Cloud
Lower Alabama
, USA
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 658
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Dexter recommends not using Centramatics with Nev-R-Lube bearings
Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherzi
I recall some debate regarding centramatics and the new zero offset bearings installed on late model Airstream trailers. Was it found to be okay?
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A representative of Dexter/Nev-R-Lube said that the additional offset caused by the addition of the Centramatics was unacceptable for the Nev-R-Lube bearing and would cause premature failure. This surfaced at the Alumaflamingo rally and was then reported in the Blue Beret magazine. Here is the the Thread:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f44/...cs-102898.html
Many believe this is perhaps Dexter protecting their posterior and that such a minimal offset should be negligible. However the manufacturer has spoken.
Embedded in the thread listed here there is another thread that includes a good PDF of the Nev-R-lube bearing cross-section. One can see how close the inner and outer bearings are together and how the zero offset wheel loads them axially in the center of the stack. One can then visualize how an offset could impact the arrangement but as discussed, the offset is very small.
Here's a cutaway showing the bearing stack.
__________________
Alan
"If you must choose between two evils, pick the one you never tried before!"
Air #64439
Southeastern Camping Unit WBCCI #5033
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11-03-2014, 08:54 PM
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#757
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Moderator
2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
2012 23' FB Flying Cloud
2005 25' Safari
Santa Rosa Beach
, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,153
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I just read this earlier thread on the Nev-R-Lube/Centramatic combination. My Centramatics are installed, and I plan to leave them there. If a 1/16" offset will harm these bearings, what will an out-of-balance wheel do them?
Have any of these bearings failed yet due to the use of Centramatic Balancers?
Brian
__________________
SuEllyn & Brian McCabe
WBCCI #3628 -- AIR #14872 -- TAC #FL-7
2015 FC 25' FB (Lucy) with ProPride
2020 Silverado 2500 (Vivian)
2023 Rivian R1T (Opal)
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11-03-2014, 09:39 PM
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#758
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Rivet Master
1999 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Hillsboro
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,406
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That is only an 'excuse'... that 1/16" could affect? More likely the hubs were damaged prior to adding the Centramatics... as they are probably made to be 'replaced'.... Welcome to the world of "planned obsolescence"...
__________________
Peace and Blessings..
Channing
WBCCI# 30676
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11-03-2014, 10:43 PM
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#759
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Rivet Master
Port Orchard
, Washington
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,463
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I'd say the simple solution is to remove the centramatics before you report a problem.
How long is the warranty on the Nev-r lube hubs? ( I'm too lazy to look it up).
Ken
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11-04-2014, 02:02 AM
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#760
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Rivet Master
2014 31' Classic
2015 23' International
2013 25' FB International
Apache Junction
, Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,214
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Here is the factory recommended torque information for the Eddie Bauer 16" SenDel T03-66655T wheel and Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2 tire conversion I photoed at Jackson Center.
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WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC
TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell
2014 31' Classic w/ twin beds, 50 amp service, 1000 watt solar system, Centramatics, Tuson TPMS, 12" disc brakes, 16" tires & wheels
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