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11-02-2013, 06:35 AM
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#561
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CapriRacer
I'm in the
, US
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum
This soft ride discussion poses a question.
Do the the 16" Michelin LT tires at 80 psi Airstream uses and recommends have a stiffer sidewall than my Airstream original 15" GYM ST tires at 65 psi?
I've used both on our trailer and see no evidence of damage from either. My understanding is ST tires have a very stiff sidewall, more so than LT tires, but looking for the truth, not opinions.
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Inflation pressure has more to do with tire stiffness than the tire itself. A tire's spring rate is almost linear with pressure.
So a tire at 65 psi would be softer than a tire at 80 psi,
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11-02-2013, 07:24 AM
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#562
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3 Rivet Member
1976 31' Sovereign
Springfield
, South Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 237
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Just a couple weeks ago I had a discussion with the guy that tours the country giving lectures on corrosion control and prevention of material deterrioration and told him I was using 10 ply LT tires on our AS at 80 PSI.
I told him I had just fell into a set of 3 ton jack stands with ratchet adjustment and that I was planning on jacking AS up, put the jack stands under and set it down with the load off the torsion bar axles and the tires.
Gov't storage at depots require vehicle on stands and tires are removed, deflated and stored in a dark place until the vehicle is reactivated. All the windows are covered with special UV protective wrap. Intakes and exhaust vents are taped, batteries removed etc etc etc.
He went on to say the tires left at full pressure sitting still put stress on them from the inside.
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11-02-2013, 07:35 AM
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#563
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Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapriRacer
Inflation pressure has more to do with tire stiffness than the tire itself. A tire's spring rate is almost linear with pressure.
So a tire at 65 psi would be softer than a tire at 80 psi,
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Yes, of course, the same tire at these two different pressures would be softer with less tire pressure.
But the question is about two different types of tires. "Do the the 16" Michelin LT tires at 80 psi Airstream uses and recommends have a stiffer sidewall than my Airstream original 15" GYM ST tires at 65 psi?"
Or more simply and less specific, do ST tires have a stiffer sidewall than LT tires?
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
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11-02-2013, 08:42 AM
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#564
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
2019 27' Tommy Bahama
London
, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,343
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Hi Doug
To answer your question, the Load Range E 225/75R x 16" Michelins have a stiffer ride than the Marathon's. However the Marathons are likely to go out of balance or get a shifted belt which is going to transmit quite a bit of vibration into the trailer.
The 15" Michelin gives you a smoother ride than the Marathon and also stays in balance and I have never seen a shifted belt in one. On your 25' 45 PSI would be the correct tire pressure with the P235/75R x 15" XL Michelin.
Andrew T
__________________
Andrew Thomson London, Ontario
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions." Tex Johnston, Boeing 707 test pilot
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11-02-2013, 10:11 AM
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#565
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Moderator
2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
2012 23' FB Flying Cloud
2005 25' Safari
Santa Rosa Beach
, Florida
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crispyboy
From Brian's LT tire experience it looks as though the proof is in the pudding! It is really hard to argue with real world results of his LT tire experience.
So Brian, now you have our curiosity up - after 116,000 miles - how did your trailer hold up? Has anything worn out specifically or were you just ready for a change?
Are you going to switch to 16" LT tires, use the Michelin XL 15" tires or roll the dice on the ST tires for awhile?
Of course you must tell us more about the new trailer!
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Hi Steve,
Not wanting to through this thread completely off track, I will address your comments and questions over in my thread titled Flying Cloud 23FB.
Brian
__________________
SuEllyn & Brian McCabe
WBCCI #3628 -- AIR #14872 -- TAC #FL-7
2015 FC 25' FB (Lucy) with ProPride
2020 Silverado 2500 (Vivian)
2023 Rivian R1T (Opal)
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11-02-2013, 10:17 AM
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#566
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Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew T
Hi Doug
To answer your question, the Load Range E 225/75R x 16" Michelins have a stiffer ride than the Marathon's. However the Marathons are likely to go out of balance or get a shifted belt which is going to transmit quite a bit of vibration into the trailer.
The 15" Michelin gives you a smoother ride than the Marathon and also stays in balance and I have never seen a shifted belt in one. On your 25' 45 PSI would be the correct tire pressure with the P235/75R x 15" XL Michelin.
Andrew T
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Thanks Andrew T, I was hoping you would come in here.
Wow, 45 psi is quite a departure from the Airstream recommended pressure of 80 psi and even much less than others who have been "playing in safe" at 65 to 75 psi. We'll have to try to get our heads around that, knowing you have more Airstream experience than most here.
I'm also understanding you have noted this recommendation is for a 25' Airstream and is not universal.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
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11-02-2013, 11:09 AM
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#567
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Moderator
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Alamo Heights
, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum
Thanks Andrew T, I was hoping you would come in here.
Wow, 45 psi is quite a departure from the Airstream recommended pressure of 80 psi and even much less than others who have been "playing in safe" at 65 to 75 psi. We'll have to try to get our heads around that, knowing you have more Airstream experience than most here.
I'm also understanding you have noted this recommendation is for a 25' Airstream and is not universal.
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Note that Andrew T's 45 psi reference was for a different tire, the 15" XLT XL rather than the 16" XLT LRE.
__________________
— David
Zero Gravitas — 2017 Flying Cloud 26U | WBCCI# 15566
He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. — Sir Winston Churchill
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11-02-2013, 12:05 PM
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#568
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Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKB_SATX
Note that Andrew T's 45 psi reference was for a different tire, the 15" XLT XL rather than the 16" XLT LRE.
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Good grief, just when I finally thought I had an answer . . .poof. I don't think I've got the patience to keep trying, hoping for a definitive answer for all us 16" Michelin users.
Thanks DBK'
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
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11-02-2013, 01:47 PM
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#569
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2 Rivet Member
1985 25' Sovereign
Okc
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum
Good grief, just when I finally thought I had an answer . . .poof. I don't think I've got the patience to keep trying, hoping for a definitive answer for all us 16" Michelin users. Thanks DBK'
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On my 85 Sovereign, 25' the tag indicates 700x15 and 45lbs of air pressure.
__________________
Lee Johnson
Corriente de Aire
85 Soverign
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11-02-2013, 01:49 PM
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#570
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Rivet Master
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W
, New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum
Good grief, just when I finally thought I had an answer . . .poof. I don't think I've got the patience to keep trying, hoping for a definitive answer for all us 16" Michelin users.
Thanks DBK'
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Love the new avatar by the way :-). Am calling the factory to schedule something line this for April.
I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding your issue, but why not just inflate to the max pressure based on the sidewall stamp?
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11-02-2013, 10:06 PM
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#571
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4 Rivet Member
2017 27' International
Fall City
, Washington
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 402
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Did the 16" upgrade today at Discount Tires. Went with the Sendel T02's to keep the look stock. Had the tires and wheels ordered, shipped, mounted on the rims and balanced in under a week, and they matched the online price including the warranty. Plus knocked off $125 in rebates. That deal, plus the forum member who drove by and bought my 15" rims/tires, made the swap quite easy and slightly less painful in the wallet.
I was able to get the spare to fit. Here's a shot of the GYM 15's on the left, Michelin 16's on the right. It brought the height up about an inch, so I'll need to raise the hitch on the shank another notch.
__________________
2017 27FB International
2013 Ram 2500 Laramie Crew Cab CTD 4x4
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11-03-2013, 05:20 AM
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#572
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
2019 27' Tommy Bahama
London
, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,343
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We have the best results carrying the correct tire pressure for the load the tire is carrying. The attachment is the RV load inflation table from Goodyear's website.
Here are the pressures for a 225/75R x 16 LT:
80psi 2680 pounds,
65psi 2335 pounds,
50psi 1940 pounds,
45psi 1790 pounds,
40psi 1650 pounds,
35psi 1500 pounds.
To use this chart you really should weigh your combination connected & loaded for travel on a sectioned scale.
For example the last Eddie Bauer I weighed with a customer was 6700 pounds on the axles (motor cycle inside) or 1675 pounds per tire. Generally I will add 10% to that number for variences in side to side load and the possibility that the scale is out a little so 1850 pounds per tire. Using the chart you could call it at 47 PSI but we went with 50 psi. 50 PSI has several advantages over 80 PSI; a smoother ride for the Airstream, shorter stopping distances espessially when wet and more even tread wear.
Some trailers & fifthwheels with corners are built with 225 Marathons right at their limit just over 10,000 pounds on tandem axles. In those cases we use the 225/75R x 16" LT with 80 psi.
From 1971 - 1984 a factory option on a new Airstream was Michelin 7:00 x 15" load range "C" tires. There were thousands of Airstreams built with these and tire trouble was very rare. I know many would say those trailers were lighter but actually many were not. The brochure weights in those days did not include options and everything was an option. By the time you added awnings, ac, double pane windows 2 door fridge etc. they weighed about the same as the new ones. Generaly 70's units tow a little easier because they are narrower and little more aerodynamic.
Years ago we could buy 225/75 x 16 Michelins in load range C which was a better match for most Airstream's but they are no longer available.
I know this is confusing and it is always easier to assume that bigger and heavier and more pressure has to be better but everthing has its compromizes.
Andrew T
__________________
Andrew Thomson London, Ontario
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions." Tex Johnston, Boeing 707 test pilot
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11-03-2013, 05:27 AM
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#573
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
2019 27' Tommy Bahama
London
, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,343
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Opps I Forgot the attachment
Here is the link as well.
http://www.goodyearrvtires.com/pdfs/rv_inflation.pdf
__________________
Andrew Thomson London, Ontario
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions." Tex Johnston, Boeing 707 test pilot
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11-03-2013, 05:30 AM
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#574
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CapriRacer
I'm in the
, US
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum
Yes, of course, the same tire at these two different pressures would be softer with less tire pressure.
But the question is about two different types of tires. "Do the the 16" Michelin LT tires at 80 psi Airstream uses and recommends have a stiffer sidewall than my Airstream original 15" GYM ST tires at 65 psi?"
Or more simply and less specific, do ST tires have a stiffer sidewall than LT tires?
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No, ST tires do not have a stiffer sidewall than LT tires. Please note that there is some variation in tire make and model within the same size and that does translate into a different ride quality, but compared to the difference inflation pressure makes, that is fairly small.
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11-03-2013, 05:45 AM
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#575
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CapriRacer
I'm in the
, US
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum
Good grief, just when I finally thought I had an answer . . .poof. I don't think I've got the patience to keep trying, hoping for a definitive answer for all us 16" Michelin users.
Thanks DBK'
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DBK,
First you have to realize that there are experts and there are "experts" - and not everyone who seems to speak with authority is one.
Tire threads seem to generate a lot of chatter. Some of it is factual, some of it is opinion, and some of it is just pure drivel. If you chose to ask questions in a forum, your job is to sort it out.
If you are looking for a definitive answer, you need to go to a definitive source - and that would not be a forum where anyone can post a response. I would suggest calling a tire manufacturer - keeping in mind that the folks who answer the phone lines (or receive the emails) are NOT engineers - and engineers (the ones worth listening to) are going to want to know tire loads..
Ordinarily, I would point to the vehicle tire placard and declare that to be definitive because it is something required by law. The problem we are having is that unlike trucks and cars, where they have been subjected to severe scrutiny by the government, the trailer manufacturers are notorious for marginal tire sizing. That's why I keep insisting on knowing the weights. That's the only way to be definitive. Without them, it is merely a guess.
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11-03-2013, 05:48 AM
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#576
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Rivet Master
2008 27' Safari FB SE
Pfafftown
, North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 918
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Experience with 16" Michelin LTX
Quote:
Originally Posted by moosetags
I have been running mine at 72 psi, based on Lucy's weight (7,400#).
Brian
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You started this thread about the time I bought my trailer. It motivated me to make the switch from 15" GYM's to 16" Michelin LTX MS tires almost immediately.
I've been running at 74 pounds cold (I have a 27' Safari so it is a little heavier than your 25). Just returned from a 7100 mile trip from North Carolina to Colorado and New Mexico where a variety of towing conditions were encountered including temperatures from 25 to 101 degrees (on different days) and significant altitude change (often on the same day). I checked pressure every morning manually. Plus I use a tire pressure monitoring system when on the road. During the entire trip I never had to add air.
We did have two interior rivets pop out during this trip. I attribute the rivet loss to running over some extremely rough washboard roads and not the tire pressure.
I store my trailer inside a commercial warehouse on a concrete surface. I do not remove the tires when stored. The longest period of time the trailer has been stored without rolling on the road is 2-3 consecutive months.
The Michelin tires have almost 15000 miles on them after 2 years and still look new. The only issue I've experienced is one flat (screw in tread) which was repaired by the tire dealer. Needless to say I'm happy I started reading this thread when it began!
__________________
Chuck
Airstream - 2008 Safari 27FB SE (Sweet Pea)
TV - 2022 Ford F350 King Ranch, 6.7 Diesel, 4X4 (Big Red)
WBCCI 3823 - Unit 12 | AIR 48265
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11-03-2013, 07:52 AM
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#577
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Rivet Master
2014 31' Classic
2015 23' International
2013 25' FB International
Apache Junction
, Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,214
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Note that a one inch taller tire only raises the trailer by one half inch since the axle is in the center of the tire and half the increased tire height is both below and above the axle. Also, when inflated, the tire is not perfectly round as there is the flat area where the tire rests on the ground.
__________________
WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC
TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell
2014 31' Classic w/ twin beds, 50 amp service, 1000 watt solar system, Centramatics, Tuson TPMS, 12" disc brakes, 16" tires & wheels
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11-03-2013, 08:35 AM
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#578
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Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew T
We have the best results carrying the correct tire pressure for the load the tire is carrying. The attachment is the RV load inflation table from Goodyear's website.
Here are the pressures for a 225/75R x 16 LT:
80psi 2680 pounds,
65psi 2335 pounds,
50psi 1940 pounds,
45psi 1790 pounds,
40psi 1650 pounds,
35psi 1500 pounds.
To use this chart you really should weigh your combination connected & loaded for travel on a sectioned scale.
For example the last Eddie Bauer I weighed with a customer was 6700 pounds on the axles (motor cycle inside) or 1675 pounds per tire. Generally I will add 10% to that number for variences in side to side load and the possibility that the scale is out a little so 1850 pounds per tire. Using the chart you could call it at 47 PSI but we went with 50 psi. 50 PSI has several advantages over 80 PSI; a smoother ride for the Airstream, shorter stopping distances espessially when wet and more even tread wear.
Some trailers & fifthwheels with corners are built with 225 Marathons right at their limit just over 10,000 pounds on tandem axles. In those cases we use the 225/75R x 16" LT with 80 psi.
From 1971 - 1984 a factory option on a new Airstream was Michelin 7:00 x 15" load range "C" tires. There were thousands of Airstreams built with these and tire trouble was very rare. I know many would say those trailers were lighter but actually many were not. The brochure weights in those days did not include options and everything was an option. By the time you added awnings, ac, double pane windows 2 door fridge etc. they weighed about the same as the new ones. Generaly 70's units tow a little easier because they are narrower and little more aerodynamic.
Years ago we could buy 225/75 x 16 Michelins in load range C which was a better match for most Airstream's but they are no longer available.
I know this is confusing and it is always easier to assume that bigger and heavier and more pressure has to be better but everthing has its compromizes.
Andrew T
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Thank you very much, Andrew T. Finally a useful answer and something we can hang our hats on.
__________________
Doug and Cheryl
2012 FC RB, Michelin 16, ProPride 1400
2016 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab 4X4 Ecodiesel 3.92 axles
The Truth is More Important Than the Facts
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11-03-2013, 10:45 AM
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#579
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Rivet Master
2007 16' International CCD
Vintage Kin Owner
Somewhere
, Colorado
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,536
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I just downloaded the current file from the Goodyear website, and in very small print at the bottom it says:
[COLOR=rgb(13.725000%, 12.157000%, 12.549000%)] *Industry standards for load & inflation are in the process of being revised. These tables are current as of 01/01/05. For the most current information, please visit the RV Tire section of Goodyear’s Web site at Goodyear RV Tires. [/COLOR]
That was almost 9 years ago! Have things changed, or is this table still good?
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11-03-2013, 10:57 AM
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#580
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Rivet Master
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,319
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Being that Goodyear brings us the ST Marathon tire, and it's history, I'm not so sure I even care what they say my tire's inflation should be.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
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