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03-21-2013, 07:50 AM
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#441
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadWest
Hi Andy, any recommendations on how to determine tire pressure that won't beat the trailer to pieces nor lead to tire failures? I have a new 28 International being built nest month with the 16" wheel/Michelin tire package. I'm sure the sticker from the factory will say 80PSI like others have reported. At 80, it can't be a smooth ride.
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80 PSI for "E" tires????
Lets all strive to beat up the trailers, quickly.
That is fantastic for repair shops.
The tire pressure to use, to me, is a function of the load.
80 PSI is the maximum for "E" tires as well as for the steel wheels.
What will happen when hot weather is here, and that tire pressure increases?
A "maximum" rating doesn't mean that 's what should be used. Maximum means "don't exceed".
My opinion for "E" tires, is to use no more than 70 PSI. If that's not enough to carry the pay load, then perhaps the pay load should be decreased, but always maintain 'full" water.
The other interesting thing of late is "lets use "E" tires at 80 PSI".
But, do those folks typically have the running gear balanced or install Centramatics?
Heck no, that's a waste of money.
WOW!!!
Guess it all depends on personal choice, once again.
Andy
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03-21-2013, 09:14 AM
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#442
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4 Rivet Member
2000 30' Excella
Toledo
, Ohio
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 493
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16" tires?
Andy ; I have been watching this page on tires all winter and I'm still not convinced E rated tires are necessary but hearing all the failures of GYM's has me wondering what to do . I have a 1985 29' Sovereign and my GYM's are 4 yrs old . I can't find a 15" st tire US made from any tire mfg. I always keep my tires covered when in storage and they still look good but I don't trust them because of their age . I live in Ohio so we don't travel in the winter but I want to replace them this spring . I have herd some use a XL or extra load tire but I'm not convinced that is the way to go either . i do have centramatics that I purchased from you last year . I too don't want to shake my trailer apart with 80lb. psi but the cost between 15" and 16" is about the same if I buy new wheels . What would you do if you were me ? I value your opinion very much . Les Grace
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03-21-2013, 12:15 PM
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#443
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CapriRacer
I'm in the
, US
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodfox45
Andy ; I have been watching this page on tires all winter and I'm still not convinced E rated tires are necessary but hearing all the failures of GYM's has me wondering what to do . I have a 1985 29' Sovereign and my GYM's are 4 yrs old . I can't find a 15" st tire US made from any tire mfg. I always keep my tires covered when in storage and they still look good but I don't trust them because of their age . I live in Ohio so we don't travel in the winter but I want to replace them this spring . I have herd some use a XL or extra load tire but I'm not convinced that is the way to go either . i do have centramatics that I purchased from you last year . I too don't want to shake my trailer apart with 80lb. psi but the cost between 15" and 16" is about the same if I buy new wheels . What would you do if you were me ? I value your opinion very much . Les Grace
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You didn't ask for my opinion, but here it is anyway:
First, is I don't think the issue of the additional inflation pressure is as big a difference as people make it out to be - in particular the difference between breaking and not breaking stuff in or attached to the trailer.
Second, If you have an ST225/75R15 Load Range D, then you have to be aware that a P235/75R15 XL has 555# less load carrying capacity (per tire). This might be an issue, so this has to be done very carefully.
Third, I'm a fan of going larger when it comes to trailers and tires. I like the idea of going from an ST225/75R15 Load Range D to an LT225/75R16 Load Range D (or E, but at 65 psi.), but the clearance has to be checked.
So without any additional info, I would advise you to go for the 16" option.
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03-21-2013, 01:10 PM
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#444
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Moderator
2004 30' Classic Slideout
Fenton
, Missouri
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapriRacer
You didn't ask for my opinion, but here it is anyway:
First, is I don't think the issue of the additional inflation pressure is as big a difference as people make it out to be - in particular the difference between breaking and not breaking stuff in or attached to the trailer.
Second, If you have an ST225/75R15 Load Range D, then you have to be aware that a P235/75R15 XL has 555# less load carrying capacity (per tire). This might be an issue, so this has to be done very carefully.
Third, I'm a fan of going larger when it comes to trailers and tires. I like the idea of going from an ST225/75R15 Load Range D to an LT225/75R16 Load Range D (or E, but at 65 psi.), but the clearance has to be checked.
So without any additional info, I would advise you to go for the 16" option.
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The dangers of under inflation are much greater than over. The reality is that most folks don't have individual wheel weights much less axle weights. I was fortunate to have the opportunity to weigh my Safari in 2001 so I know what my average food and camping gear weighs. The other side of the equation is the fact that we are using LT tires in a tandem axle arrangements. Not the same as a typical truck arrangement.
With all this in mind no one really takes this type of use into account in inflation tables. As long as my wheels are rated correctly, carrying 80 psi on my heavy slide out Classic leaves me a lot more room for margin. I'd rather not be so exact that a cool day, an altitude change, or a bad estimation on load leave me in an under inflation state.
Jack
__________________
Jack Canavera
STL Mo.
AIR #56 S/OS#15
'04 Classic 30' S.O.,'03 GMC Savana 2500
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03-21-2013, 02:05 PM
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#445
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Rivet Master
2005 19' Safari
GLENDALE
, AZ
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,453
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We have 16-inch wheels and Michelin XPS Ribs (225/75x16). Wheels and tires are balanced, and we have Centramatics. We run 80 psi, the maximum printed on the sidewalls.
I have ridden in our single-axle, 19-foot Bambi; and the ride is similar to our 2008 Tundra CrewMax on smooth roads at highway speeds, and a little more boat-like over irregular surfaces. However, the ride is not jarring, and it is not significantly different at 65 and 72 psi.
Also, I will not consider running lower pressures on our single axle Airstream in southwest desert areas; although, I might consider it, if we had multiple axles and lower tire loads with the same tires.
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03-21-2013, 07:55 PM
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#446
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,694
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When we ran 68 lbs. in Michelin LR E 16" tires, the tread wear showed them slightly underinflated—that is wear was slightly greater towards the sides and slightly less at the center. Since we went to 72 lbs., wear has been even.
The tables are great to make an initial decision, but in the end the tires will tell you what they like.
Gene
__________________
Gene
The Airstream is sold; a 2016 Nash 24M replaced it.
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03-21-2013, 08:06 PM
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#447
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Rivet Master
1979 31' Sovereign
Northeastern
, Kentucky
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 627
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Do the centramatics for 15" wheels work on the 16" wheels? I didn't see them for 16".
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03-21-2013, 08:11 PM
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#448
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Rivet Master
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KYAirstream
Do the centramatics for 15" wheels work on the 16" wheels? I didn't see them for 16".
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I have them on our trailer with 16" wheels/tires, but how would you know if they are really doing anything?
__________________
Regards,
Steve
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03-21-2013, 08:13 PM
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#449
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KYAirstream
Do the centramatics for 15" wheels work on the 16" wheels? I didn't see them for 16".
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Yes they do, as long as there is a 10 inch flat spot on the back side of the wheels.
Andy
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03-21-2013, 08:41 PM
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#450
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH
I have them on our trailer with 16" wheels/tires, but how would you know if they are really doing anything?
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Real easy.
Does stuff stay put in the trailer, and what kind of tire wear do you have, or not have.
Andy
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03-21-2013, 10:17 PM
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#451
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Rivet Master
2005 19' Safari
GLENDALE
, AZ
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,453
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Centramatics fit 16-inch, Sendel T02's. Our XPS Ribs are a little over two years old with about 15-18,000 miles on them; and they look almost new, with very little wear.
We leave large sea-salt and pepper grinders in a wrought iron caddy on the dinette table (on a rubber, non-skid mat) while traveling; and they do not tip over, move around or fall off on the floor. The same with the liquid hand-soap pump, etc., by the bathroom sink.
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03-22-2013, 07:03 AM
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#452
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Rivet Master
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,319
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Like I said, we have the Centramatics with 16" wheels/tires, and stuff flies all over the inside of the trailer, draws keep opening, sliding closet doors keep coming off their tracks, and I have had to reinstall the rear sliding bedroom door twice.
Is this because of, or in spite of the Centramatics?
__________________
Regards,
Steve
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03-22-2013, 11:38 AM
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#453
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4 Rivet Member
2016 27' Flying Cloud
Overland Park
, Kansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 365
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Michelin LTX M/S 2 or M/S
I've been shopping for tires to go with my new Sendel T03 wheels.
Does anyone know the difference between the 16" Michelin M/S and M/S 2.
The tire salesman says the M/S 2's are replacing the M/S, and have a longer tread warranty. However, it seems most people on the forum are using the Michelin LTX M/S 225/75 R 16 load range E, not the M/S 2. Any advise on my upcoming purchase.
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03-22-2013, 11:51 AM
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#454
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Centramatic, within reason, take care of unbalanced running gear.
Centramatics do not compensate for excessive rated tow vehicles or excessive rated hitch bars.
Andy
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03-22-2013, 01:59 PM
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#455
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH
Like I said, we have the Centramatics with 16" wheels/tires, and stuff flies all over the inside of the trailer, draws keep opening, sliding closet doors keep coming off their tracks, and I have had to reinstall the rear sliding bedroom door twice.
Is this because of, or in spite of the Centramatics?
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Don't forget the driver as one of possibilities Steve. Isn't Texas the state with the 85 speed limit on some highways?
We've had things open and things move, but it must be when Barb is driving. There appears to be less of that with Centramatics.
The M+S 2 wasn't available when we got our Michelins, so that may be why some people use M+S.
Gene
__________________
Gene
The Airstream is sold; a 2016 Nash 24M replaced it.
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03-22-2013, 02:10 PM
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#456
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Rivet Master
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,319
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Yes, Gene, Texas has some highways with speed limits up to 85, but I don't tow that fast. Really.
I try not to exceed 65 with the trailer.....try.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
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03-22-2013, 03:00 PM
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#457
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Moderator dude
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
Centramatic, within reason, take care of unbalanced running gear. Centramatics do not compensate for excessive rated tow vehicles or excessive rated hitch bars.
Andy
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Or worn out parts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
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03-22-2013, 03:54 PM
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#458
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4 Rivet Member
2018 30' Classic
Ivins
, Utah
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH
Is this because of, or in spite of the Centramatics?
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An interesting experiment would be to use an accellerometer app such as https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...erometer&hl=en
Drive the same route, at the same general speed, with and without the centramatics. I agree that driving style, as well as the roads typically driven, will have a lot to do with what moves inside the trailer. A bumpy road or a gas station driveway will likely create enough rocking to move things around, regardless of wheel balance.
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03-22-2013, 05:36 PM
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#459
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4 Rivet Member
2006 30' Classic
Milton
, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 256
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ST225/75R15 Load Range D Tires
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapriRacer
...
Third, I'm a fan of going larger when it comes to trailers and tires. I like the idea of going from an ST225/75R15 Load Range D to an LT225/75R16 Load Range D (or E, but at 65 psi.), but the clearance has to be checked.
So without any additional info, I would advise you to go for the 16" option.
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Can you be more specific as to why you favor this type of change?
I read about the GYM ( and other brands) complaints from those using the ST225/75R15 Load Range D tires and compare these to our experience with the GYM ST225/75R15 Load Range D tires on our 2006 model year 30' Classic and come away confused. Our trailer is in its eighth year of usage (and second set of tires) with zero tire problems.
Is the reported ST225/75R15 Load Range D tire failure problem a very complex problem, or is it more of a combination of loading, towing speed, tire pressure, etc.?
Please, no rants from those that have experienced tire failures on the ST225/75R15 Load Range D tires.
We tow at 55 mph, monitor tire pressure and temperature, and know that our trailer weight is well below the 10,000 pound GVWR rating for this model.
I really don't want to change to 16" rims if the ST225/75R15 Load Range D tires are satisfactory under the conditions under which we use our trailer.
Are there many other owners out there that have experienced what we have with the ST225/75R15 Load Range D tires?
__________________
F. A. Meloy
2006 30' Classic
Dexter hydraulic disc brake system
Centramatics wheel balancing & Dill TPMS
Hensley hitch & Maxim skylights
Voyager Camera System WVOS713
2010 FORD F-250, ITBC, 6.8 liter V-10 gas, with VIAIR on-board air system
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03-22-2013, 06:32 PM
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#460
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Limited
Wichita
, Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiho Silver
Does anyone know the difference between the 16" Michelin M/S and M/S 2?
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I've been planning this change (to 16" wheels & tires) for over a year and during that time Michelin has migrated the new production 225/75R16 LRE tires from the M/S design and rubber compound to the M/S 2. As previously mentioned, the M/S 2 is an evolutionary change of the basic M/S series and is supposed to be an incremental improvement.
Steve
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