Will Pro Pride Hitch Add Tongue Weight?

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by Hans627

This is a very interesting discussion and I appreciate the explanations presented. I am currently using a Blue Ox WD system. Seems to work well and I am satisfied.

However, has anyone who has a PP hitch and been to the CAT scales be willing to show the numbers? It's not that I doubt the information provided by those with experience but I would like to see how much of a difference it makes. My reason for asking is that my RAM truck has a lower payload that many other 1/2 T trucks.

Thanks!

We have weighed our setup many times. The late model Ram 1500's with coil spring or air suspension have axles each rated at 3900 lbs.

With a heavy load in our Airstream and some in the truck, a recent weighing gave us 3620 lbs on the front axle and 3600 lbs on the rear axle. We weighed the loaded truck before this, then the combination. With this evenly distributed weight on our Ram's axles, the truck handles and brakes very nicely, and we don't have worry about an overloaded axle.

With our loaded FC25RB (factory hitch weight 835 lbs), ProPride hitch (180 lbs), and two oversize Lifeline GPL31XT batteries in the battery box, it added 820 lbs to our Ram when w.d. was applied.

This 820 lb weight added to our Ram, even though the individual components add up to much more, is a result of the extended tongue length the ProPride hitch provides, and the effects of lifting the weight distribution bars.

Nothing disappears, there is no magic. The difference is either carried by the tow vehicle axles or the trailer axles depending on how much w.d can be applied.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by Hans627

This is a very interesting discussion and I appreciate the explanations presented. I am currently using a Blue Ox WD system. Seems to work well and I am satisfied.



However, has anyone who has a PP hitch and been to the CAT scales be willing to show the numbers? It's not that I doubt the information provided by those with experience but I would like to see how much of a difference it makes. My reason for asking is that my RAM truck has a lower payload that many other 1/2 T trucks.



Thanks!

I posted a handwritten spreadsheet from a bunch of measurements I did and there was some good discussion and correction provided in this thread:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...-135792-4.html

I'm not sure this will answer the question you're asking except to say I believe AS said the hitch weight was something like 830# and I'm at 980# according to these numbers. I can't say what part of that is the PP hitch and what of that is the way I've loaded my trailer (heavy on the a-frame as the FB model has all its storage under the bed in the front).

[SteveSueMac]

Uhm - that link is so not going to where I took it from! Maybe search for that thread by title?

[SteveSueMac]

Trying the link one more time:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...-135792-4.html

[SteveSueMac]

Sorry - 4 posts and it's still pointing to a fridge thread...sorry!

[SteveSueMac]

Here's the pic I mentioned but I can't seem to link you to the awesome dialogue and evaluation in that thread after posting it...

[Abj1]

Originally Posted by Sphere Guy

Abj1,

If you need to transfer more weight forward, yes you can pull more on your jacks. But also, you can add more washers on the head to get more tilt and have more transfer weight without pulling "harder" on the jacks.

And Yes, there is a point at which the jacks will stop. At maxed travel limit. Then the only way to get more transfer force is to add washers.

I prefer to have less jack travel so I utilize washers.

Thanks Sphere Guy- Question on adding the washers. Where exactly would these washers be located. I recall that when building the TV hitch inserting that pin which also included washers. Adding the washers seemed to tilt the hitch downward a bit. I assume this is the pin you're referencing? And, is it a tilt downward of the hitch that you're referencing? Thanks

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by Abj1

Thank you. This was very helpful and starting to make sense. I definitely have some squatting in the rear of my 1/2 ton Tundra. One question I have is with regards to my WD jacks and the height with which I raise them to. Given my trailer weight and truck I was given an initial height of 6" to raise the WD Jacks to. If I were to raise them say to 7 1/2 inches does that in theory help shift more weight to the front axel? And, is there a point or max at which I should stop raising the WD jacks? Thanks Andrew

Andrew, be careful. There is such a thing as "overhitching" where you have the WD spring bars ( or equivalent on your brand of hitch) put so much torque on the system where it transfers too much weight to the front wheels and relieve so much weight from the TV rear wheels that the rig becomes unstable, leading to dangerous sway.

I think you should start with the method of measuring initial distances of front and rear wheel wells fron the ground and adjusting your hitch so that both front and rear of the TV drop by the same amount. Of course this is assuming you're not using air bag adjustable suspension. This is a starting point. It's best to weigh your rig to get the real distribution. There's info in the AS manuals and look at the hitch mfg manual.

[USAtraveler]

Originally Posted by KK4YZ

Andrew, be careful. There is such a thing as "overhitching" where you have the WD spring bars ( or equivalent on your brand of hitch) put so much torque on the system where it transfers too much weight to the front wheels and relieve so much weight from the TV rear wheels that the rig becomes unstable, leading to dangerous sway.

I think you should start with the method of measuring initial distances of front and rear wheel wells fron the ground and adjusting your hitch so that both front and rear of the TV drop by the same amount. Of course this is assuming you're not using air bag adjustable suspension. This is a starting point. It's best to weigh your rig to get the real distribution. There's info in the AS manuals and look at the hitch mfg manual.

Good warning. Distributing excessive weight to the front axle by cranking up too hard on the spring bars can be dangerous. It puts a load on the front axle that it was never meant to carry. It overloads the front suspension components and strains the steering mechanism to the point they can fail. Alternatively, with too much weight transferred forward thru the receiver hitch, the welds on the hitch might fail.

Taking multiple weigh-ins at a truck scale can be tedious and time consuming, so much so that most trailer owners never get around to it. Using your tape measure to take fender measurements OTOH is a lot more convenient method and one which any owner can easily perform. With your TV unloaded and no trailer attached, measure the fender height above the front and rear wheel centers. The front measurement will be less than the rear, the net difference being somewhere around an 1" to 1-1/2" in most cases. Now put the WD shank with the ball mount into the hitch receiver, and drop the trailer onto the ball. Re-measure both fender heights, then lift the spring bars until the net difference between the front and rear measurements is within 1/2 the unloaded difference. If the TV and trailer aren't level, adjust the ball height up or down until the trailer floor is level with the rear of the TV.

NOTE: if the net difference as measured above is 1/4" or less after dropping the trailer onto the ball and before cranking on the spring bars, you really don't need a WDH at all. Buy a good electronic sway control with independent trailer wheel braking and motor on!

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Guessing at how to set up a WD hitch is a really bad idea. There are a number of ways you can get things messed up. Either get the right manual for the hitch you have and follow the instructions there or have a good mechanic / dealer (who works with that brand every day) do the work for you.

Once you have the procedure in the manual done and it's all set up, go over to the scales to check the result. It's going to be a two pass thing (truck with no tow, then truck plus tow) so plan ahead. Both passes should have the truck loaded the same way.

Bob

[KK4YZ]

We're at the tail end of a trip through IN and OH from GA. Finding an open weigh station is not easy. I'm surprised how few stations there are. My hitch was set up at the dealer so I'm confident it's done right. I still want to know my weights, though.

[Rocinante]

Just in case there is any confusion. You don't want a roadside weigh station run by state troopers or the local constabulary. CAT scale is what you want. They are often at truck stops, and there's even an app to help you find them.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

...snip...
It's going to be a two pass thing (truck with no tow, then truck plus tow) so plan ahead. Both passes should have the truck loaded the same way.

Bob

I think you need 3 to really know what's going on.

1) full rig with full WD applied
2) full rig with no WD applied
3) truck alone

(since you'd be traveling to the scales, I'd do them in that order to make it easy on yourself)

In reverse order what this tells you is the weight of the axles on your TV as is, then what happens when you drop the trailer on the rear end of your TV (in particular, how much weight comes off the steer axle of your TV) and finally, how much of that weight did you restore to the steer axle (as well as how balanced the whole rig is). You can also calculate an approximate tongue weight from those measures.

Ron Gratz posted a full procedure and several people have posted spreadsheets you can use.

I'm geeky - I think it's a fun thing to do once a year!

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

I think you need 3 to really know what's going on.

1) full rig with full WD applied
2) full rig with no WD applied
3) truck alone

(since you'd be traveling to the scales, I'd do them in that order to make it easy on yourself)

In reverse order what this tells you is the weight of the axles on your TV as is, then what happens when you drop the trailer on the rear end of your TV (in particular, how much weight comes off the steer axle of your TV) and finally, how much of that weight did you restore to the steer axle (as well as how balanced the whole rig is). You can also calculate an approximate tongue weight from those measures.

Ron Gratz posted a full procedure and several people have posted spreadsheets you can use.

I'm geeky - I think it's a fun thing to do once a year!

Hi

Is't fun to watch what happens as you play with the hitch. Starting from zero is the normal point in any setup procedure. It is unclear what useful data you get from the "no WD" step when re-checking a finished setup.

Bob

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi



Is't fun to watch what happens as you play with the hitch. Starting from zero is the normal point in any setup procedure. It is unclear what useful data you get from the "no WD" step when re-checking a finished setup.



Bob

Yes it's fun [emoji3]

And I probably wasn't clear. Solo truck, truck with trailer "on the ball", truck with trailer WD applied. Those are the 3 to get the baseline. If you find that using X links or Y inches on a Hensley jack doesn't meet the need, you'd dial in more and weigh again. No point going back to no WD again....

[USAtraveler]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

I think you need 3 to really know what's going on.

1) full rig with full WD applied
2) full rig with no WD applied
3) truck alone

(since you'd be traveling to the scales, I'd do them in that order to make it easy on yourself)

In reverse order what this tells you is the weight of the axles on your TV as is, then what happens when you drop the trailer on the rear end of your TV (in particular, how much weight comes off the steer axle of your TV) and finally, how much of that weight did you restore to the steer axle (as well as how balanced the whole rig is). You can also calculate an approximate tongue weight from those measures.

The CAT scale weigh-in, if you can find one nearby, is way more than 2 or 3 passes...You need to weigh each axle by itself on the scale, plus the TV's combined 2-axle weight together on the scale. Then weigh all the axles again both with and without the WDH. Furthermore, unless you are lucky enough that your TV front axle weight comes out within the GAWR spec with the WDH engaged, you will have to re-weigh one or more axles again after re-adjusting the WDH or possibly re-loading or re-positioning weight in the TV and/or trailer. You are just pissing away time and money if you don't do it right....which gets us back to me original contention that very few owners ever use the CAT scale (or use it correctly).

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

Yes it's fun [emoji3]

And I probably wasn't clear. Solo truck, truck with trailer "on the ball", truck with trailer WD applied. Those are the 3 to get the baseline. If you find that using X links or Y inches on a Hensley jack doesn't meet the need, you'd dial in more and weigh again. No point going back to no WD again....

Hi

I think we're talking about two somewhat different things here. I'm simply talking about the minimum data to check that things are OK, not a full blown "let's adjust everything" process. Put another way - if I set it up by the "measure the fenders" approach, a check to see if I got it right. The math between "no trailer" and "WD applied" is what answers that question. The "no WD" numbers drop out of the equation.

Bob

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi



I think we're talking about two somewhat different things here. I'm simply talking about the minimum data to check that things are OK, not a full blown "let's adjust everything" process. Put another way - if I set it up by the "measure the fenders" approach, a check to see if I got it right. The math between "no trailer" and "WD applied" is what answers that question. The "no WD" numbers drop out of the equation.



Bob

Oh. I guess I don't know how to do the math on that one - like on mine, the fender barely moves (using the fender measurement approach) but I can see on the scales I lose 4-500# off the front end just by connecting the trailer (no WD applied). I guess if you're saying the truck alone has X on the steer, then seeing trailer with applied WD that has X on the steer is what works, yes?

Always fun to learn more ways to do this! [emoji3]

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by KK4YZ

My hitch was set up at the dealer so I'm confident it's done right.

Hmmmmm....

[rmkrum]

That assumes the dealer's technician knows what to do, and did it right this time.

I'm not that confident with any third party working on my rig. I am the final QA department and I double check everything, even stuff I do myself.

Paranoia? Possibly, but I didn't get this old being complacent or totally trusting.

"Always assume the gun is loaded..."