Will Pro Pride Hitch Add Tongue Weight?

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

Oh. I guess I don't know how to do the math on that one - like on mine, the fender barely moves (using the fender measurement approach) but I can see on the scales I lose 4-500# off the front end just by connecting the trailer (no WD applied). I guess if you're saying the truck alone has X on the steer, then seeing trailer with applied WD that has X on the steer is what works, yes?

Always fun to learn more ways to do this! [emoji3]

Hi

You might want to actually *look* at the equations before you take pot shots ...I guess you were to busy to bother.

Bob

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi



You might want to actually *look* at the equations before you take pot shots ...I guess you were to busy to bother.



Bob

I think you misunderstood me completely!

No potshots there intended whatsoever! I honestly didn't know how you were calculating it and guessed it might be what I suggested - and if I was right on my guess - I was honestly appreciating learning a new way to do this.

Not sure what I said that led you to that inference but 180 degrees from my intent...

[USAtraveler]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

I think you misunderstood me completely!

No potshots there intended whatsoever! I honestly didn't know how you were calculating it and guessed it might be what I suggested - and if I was right on my guess - I was honestly appreciating learning a new way to do this.

Not sure what I said that led you to that inference but 180 degrees from my intent...

I wouldn't be too hasty to buy into UncleBob's logic...or whatever it is. I'm not so sure I follow it either. If he's saying what I think he's saying, it's wrong. If your front axle weight without WD applied is x lbs, then (X - 500) lbs with WD, you can't just crank down the WD until the front axle again weights X. The "no WD numbers" do not simply "drop out" of the "equation" (Huh???) The TV and trailer combo may still not ride level.

Now if you were trying to explain something else, Uncle, it would illuminate matters if you could try again and explain them rather more coherently.

[slowmover]

CAT Scale is segmented. Steer Axle, Drive Axle, Trailer Axle. All three at once.

It is not difficult, tedious or time-consuming. Phone app for locator and to use the scale itself. I'm on them weekly any number of times.

The old rule of WD was 1/3 of TW to each of those Scale segments (where the Drive Axle is still 10% heavier than Steer).

Pickups aren't as easy to set, but anyone running a near empty bed (by weight) should question why they use a pickup in the first place.

Rough it in at home with fender measurements. Use the Scale and the chart I borrowed from Ron Gratz six, seven years ago and posted to this forum , and get the numbers.

Several threads with Cat Scale in title. I bumped one recently.

With all three tickets, also post pics of rig on level ground. Side view to show vehicles attitude. Might be someone spots something to alter for better performance.

[james.mileur]

Originally Posted by KK4YZ

. . . My hitch was set up at the dealer so I'm confident it's done right. . .

"Danger, Will Robinson, danger, danger!"
Robot, Lost in Space, circa 1960-ish

"You don't get what you expect, you get what you inspect" ADM HG Rickover

[Bill M.]

I do not see why you really need the pass across the scales with the trailer on the ball but the WD not hooked up? What really matters is the axle weights unhitched and hitched. I do not really care what the tongue weight is, for instance, because I do know the weight the trailer hitched actually adds to the truck. I have weighed my rig twice now and did not do the pass with the wd not hooked up. I know I am not going to run it that way.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

I do not see why you really need the pass across the scales with the trailer on the ball but the WD not hooked up? What really matters is the axle weights unhitched and hitched. I do not really care what the tongue weight is, for instance, because I do know the weight the trailer hitched actually adds to the truck. I have weighed my rig twice now and did not do the pass with the wd not hooked up. I know I am not going to run it that way.

It comes down to the load on the tires. That's all that any of this is about.

The WD installed but not tensioned shows Load imposed by TT.

Helps isolates the TW.

Guesstimates are a bad idea in that isolating rig handling or braking characteristics are then subject to false data during diagnosis.

On a slow day I've been known to unhitch while on the scale. Get permission and work out a plan to chock tires and work fast. Used tongue jack, and then wood blocks under hitch ball receiver. I wanted to crosscheck other measurements.

[james.mileur]

SWAG, Super Wild A$& Guesstimate, as in, "Based on my experience, (SWAG) of course you can pull that trailer with that TV. Just sign here . . ."

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Ok, this gets really boring .. sorry about that ....I'll try not to go nuts (sorry about that as well).

With no trailer you get A, B and C (front axle, rear axle, and trailer)

With hitch and no WD, you get D, E, and F (loaded front, loaded rear, and loaded trailer)

With WD on you get G, H and K (WD front, WD rear and WD trailer)

You know for sure that A + B + C = D + E + F = G + H + K. It has to, the *total* weights are all the same.

Once you are done, there are some things you want to check. Again, this is just about checking things.

1) Are any axles overloaded? that's just G,H,K
2) Am I putting the desired added weight on both TV axles? A-G vs B-H
(the total added would be (A-G) + (B-H) if you want that)
3) Did I take weight off the front? that would be G < A

The D's E's and F's never get into it. Since all the sums are always the same, checking that sum isn't really adding anything to a check. If you are rolling over the scales once a year to see that the distribution is still OK, you don't need the one in the middle. You do need A,B,C simply to verify that your loading is still the same a year later. The same is true if you are simply checking a dealer install or something similar. You are not trying to do it from scratch. You are just checking the result.

If you *wanted* to make a minor adjustment (one link / washer / whatever) your objective is still to impact out the A-G vs B-H numbers (or just G and H). For a one washer change you already know what you are going to try. There really *isn't* a lot stuff to adjust for fine tuning on most hitches. D,E, and F are fun to see, but they don't add anything you don't already know to a check or a fine tune.

Bob (still trying not to go absolutely and utterly bonking nuts ... sorry about that ...)

[james.mileur]

Uncle Bob, Hard to port! You're swimming in the Sargoso Alphabet Sea. Love your logic.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Ok, this gets really boring .. sorry about that ....I'll try not to go nuts (sorry about that as well).

With no trailer you get A, B and C (front axle, rear axle, and trailer)

With hitch and no WD, you get D, E, and F (loaded front, loaded rear, and loaded trailer)

With WD on you get G, H and K (WD front, WD rear and WD trailer)

You know for sure that A + B + C = D + E + F = G + H + K. It has to, the *total* weights are all the same.

Once you are done, there are some things you want to check. Again, this is just about checking things.

1) Are any axles overloaded? that's just G,H,K
2) Am I putting the desired added weight on both TV axles? A-G vs B-H
(the total added would be (A-G) + (B-H) if you want that)
3) Did I take weight off the front? that would be G < A

The D's E's and F's never get into it. Since all the sums are always the same, checking that sum isn't really adding anything to a check. If you are rolling over the scales once a year to see that the distribution is still OK, you don't need the one in the middle. You do need A,B,C simply to verify that your loading is still the same a year later. The same is true if you are simply checking a dealer install or something similar. You are not trying to do it from scratch. You are just checking the result.

If you *wanted* to make a minor adjustment (one link / washer / whatever) your objective is still to impact out the A-G vs B-H numbers (or just G and H). For a one washer change you already know what you are going to try. There really *isn't* a lot stuff to adjust for fine tuning on most hitches. D,E, and F are fun to see, but they don't add anything you don't already know to a check or a fine tune.

Bob (still trying not to go absolutely and utterly bonking nuts ... sorry about that ...)

At the risk of appearing any other way than intended - let me say that first, I appreciate your explanation. Second, I want to explain why *I* would want to use some of these differently - if your mileage varies, I have no argument with that...

In your list of letters, F minus K (if I'm following you correctly) will give you a good approximation of tongue weight which, depending on how you load the trailer, can shift over time. Since *I* want that figure to be between 10-15% of F, and since AS says the tongue can't be over 1000# (or the max of my tow vehicle's hitch - which is a confusing standard) I need the D E F numbers (or a dedicated tongue scale).

I have no problem with you if you don't need them and again if you're deriving them differently and I'm missing the math, I'd welcome learning how you're doing that for my own education - I'm not judging or being a wiseass - just explaining what I think - and may not know/understand about what you think.

If any of that is offensive to you I assure you that's not my intent.

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by james.mileur

"Danger, Will Robinson, danger, danger!"
Robot, Lost in Space, circa 1960-ish

"You don't get what you expect, you get what you inspect" ADM HG Rickover

I inspected it as well on CAT scales. Between that and the truck being level, it looks good. The guys at Colonial do this every day and know what they're doing.

BTW I've heard interesting stories about ole Hyman's (Rickover) interviewing techniques. Interesting bird.

[lsbrodsky]

Yes, I was interviewed by him and met him when I was in uniform on two other occasions. He was a crazy old coot!

Larry

[rmkrum]

Crazy like a fox, imho.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

At the risk of appearing any other way than intended - let me say that first, I appreciate your explanation. Second, I want to explain why *I* would want to use some of these differently - if your mileage varies, I have no argument with that...

In your list of letters, F minus K (if I'm following you correctly) will give you a good approximation of tongue weight which, depending on how you load the trailer, can shift over time. Since *I* want that figure to be between 10-15% of F, and since AS says the tongue can't be over 1000# (or the max of my tow vehicle's hitch - which is a confusing standard) I need the D E F numbers (or a dedicated tongue scale).

I have no problem with you if you don't need them and again if you're deriving them differently and I'm missing the math, I'd welcome learning how you're doing that for my own education - I'm not judging or being a wiseass - just explaining what I think - and may not know/understand about what you think.

If any of that is offensive to you I assure you that's not my intent.

Hi

No problem ... I've had my morning coffee and am flying level at this point

F is the weight on the trailer axle. K is also the weight on the trailer axle as measured on the scale. Similarly the other letters each represent weights measured on the CAT scale pads.

Effective tongue weight is what is transferred to the TV. It would be (G+H) - (A+B). It also is the difference between either of those and (D+E). My assumption is that you want to know the weight transfer once you are done and running down the road. Knowing it in a condition (no WD) that you will not be actually be using is interesting, but not vital.

Indeed knowing that you are not overloading the receiver is important. It's worth checking if you believe you are anywhere near close. Again, the *assumption* is that the receiver is seeing the added weight put onto the axles. That's behind any simple CAT scale based approach.

Bob

[MelGoddard]

You guys are giving me a headache!

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by MelGoddard

You guys are giving me a headache!

I gave myself a headache! [emoji23]

[Moflash]

Tongue weight is a constant and does not magically disappear.

[PKI]

Why would we measure the tongue weight at the end of the shank when the tongue ends at the ball coupler. Or if we are asking if the PP/H hitch adds weight, why would we not compare the weight of another hitch with a similar length shank to the PP/H configuration? Why do other designs not use a long shank if it reduces tongue weight? Pat

[DRPREECE]

Originally Posted by Abj1

Hey there-



Looking to get a PP hitch and curious if it will add substantial tongue weight. if so does anyone know how much tongue weight it adds?



Thanks, Andrew

It adds 200 lbs. My factory tongue weight is 903 lbs. With the ProPride attached, including the stinger, it measured 1100 lbs. using a tongue scale and verified on the CAT scales.