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Old 09-21-2010, 05:39 PM   #1
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Weight Ratios?

I think I have a perfect set up right now as the truck and trailer ride really well. But, I'd like some opinions. Maybe I can make it even better. Do the weight ratios look OK?Going by the "seat of the pants" it's a smooth ride and a controlled drive in any conditions I've seen so far.

Here's the set up:

1 ton dually TV
27' FB 2010 Classic
Old Reese trunion WD bars rated at 1000 lbs.
Airsafe Hitch class V
Class V receiver hitch

Truck alone at scale with full fuel & empty bed:
Steering Axle 4480
Drive Axle 3660
Trailer Axles 0
Total 8140#

Loaded for travel, both truck and trailer hitched and wd bars in use w/ Airsafe hitch at 60 psi:

Steering Axle 4680
Drive Axle 5760
Trailer Axles 6960
Total 17,400#
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Old 09-21-2010, 06:15 PM   #2
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I am not sure how you can put 200 lbs. on the front axle of a 1 ton truck and even more confused as how you get 2,000 lbs on the rear axle of the truck with a 27 ft trailer. Are the numbers correct?

I would assume something more like 100+ on the front and 500+ on the rear. Remember if your trailer has a tongue weight of say 700 lbs and you are using a WD hitch the total between all axles, 2 truck plus the trailer set, should not exceed the tongue weight.
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Old 09-21-2010, 06:25 PM   #3
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howie...

U appear to be ignoring PAYLOAD already IN the truck bed...

bluto could be carrying 1000 lbs PLUS of gear...

in fact i'd bet that's a given.
__________

b'

FINALLY some1 with a whooooopy cushion hitch provides scale readings...

NICE.

-looks like u are under the axle rating for truck AND 'stream...

-looks like u are under the gwr for the stream...

-looks like u are under payload/rating for truck...

-looks like u are under the gvwr for the truck and gCvwr too...

-with a tongue mass approaching 1000 lbs AND the hitch AND the camping gear in the truck...

this all reads nicely.

if it RIDEz nice too...cool.

the figures look good, so why push yer luck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluto View Post
Maybe I can make it even better...
keep in mind this bit o' hijacked wisdom...

"perfect is the enemy of good"

or as written by that phamous phrench phella,

phrançois marie aroue

"le mieux est l'ennemi du bien.",
________

what air pressures are u running in the TRUCK and stream tires?

looks like u have capacity for another 12-1500 lbs IN the truck...

(so is yer wife included in the loadz already....)

cheers
2air'
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Old 09-21-2010, 06:33 PM   #4
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2air

Your assumption is about the only way those numbers could have been reached but that doesn't make for an "apples to apples" comparison on the hitch set up which was the question.

If had given the loaded weight of the truck and then the hitched weights we could comment on the hitch set up.
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Old 09-21-2010, 06:43 PM   #5
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not 2 differ howie,

but the ? i read is about axle/weight ratios...

which eye reformulate 2 imply axle loads.

it IS tempting to wanna offer commentary on many other things...

like tongue weight, total trailer weight, bar selection, ball tilt, links, washers... and so on.

but B' has either NOT obtained those figures, or simply realizes...

it's ultimately the axle loads that matter here...

including REstoring steer axle loads to the base line.
_______

we could also quibble regarding 'ratios' vs % vs something else.

which might be of value to some but not to B'z bottom line.

since he is WELL under axle ratings all around and all capacities and limits...

KUDOS to da'man...

cheers
2air'
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Old 09-21-2010, 06:57 PM   #6
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Yeah, it'd be nice to know the truck weight loaded, but unhitched. The next trip to the CAT Scale should do it.

The ever-handy Ron Gratz [RV.net] chart might be of help in making it quick:

Weighing #1 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA1"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA1"

Let TT Axles Load be "TT1"

Then, while in same position on scales, take
Weighing #2 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Not Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA2"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA2"

Let TT Axles Load be "TT2"

Then, drive off scales and drop TT. Return to scales and take
Weighing #3 -- TV only -- TT Not Attached

Let Front Axle Load be "FA3"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA3"

From the above values, you can calculate:

TV weight = FA3 + RA3

Gross Combined Weight = (FA1 + RA1 + TT1)
- should also be equal to (FA2 + RA2 + TT2) if scale weights are correct

TT Weight = Gross Combined Weight - TV Weight

Tongue Weight = (FA2 + RA2) - (FA3 + RA3)

Load Transferred to TT Axles
when WD System in Activated = TT1 - TT2


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Old 09-21-2010, 08:18 PM   #7
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Thanks for the comments.
As for tire pressures. I'm running Michelin XPS Ribs at 65psi on frt of truck, 60psi on the duals, and 65psi on the trailer with Goodyear Marathons 15 inch(D rated).
Those scale weights are of wife and 2 dogs included, plus me and all the other stuff in the truck.
Next trip will start in a few of weeks so I'll get the truck weighed again without the trailer, but loaded for travel. I might spring for a tongue weight scale of my own to finish the job of getting all the weights.
The numbers posted above are correct. I was surprised when I saw the heavy numbers too.
My first trip hooked up this way was 1580 miles and we just got back yesterday.
The next trip will be in excess of 3100 miles. I never really worry about being overloaded, just balanced out.
With the heavy weights the whole rig has a very nice ride. I noticed that the overload spring (extra spring on 1 ton) is not used when sitting still but probably is engaged when I hit a dip in the road.
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Old 09-21-2010, 08:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
Yeah, it'd be nice to know the truck weight loaded, but unhitched. The next trip to the CAT Scale should do it.

The ever-handy Ron Gratz

You lost me at Ron Gratz...
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Old 09-21-2010, 08:51 PM   #9
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There is some good info about the SHERLINE scale; I seem also to recall some notes about use in re different numbers recorded with only small changes; trailer stability, level, etc.

Pics anywhere of the rig?
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Old 09-21-2010, 09:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Woodruff View Post
You lost me at Ron Gratz...
You don't want to think on the meticulous Mr. Gratz (posts frequently on RV.net on the "Towing" subforum, along with a regular cast of characters) and his penchant for detail in re numbers? (Ha!) (And folks around here think 2Air is tough). I do like what he comes up with (he is currently compiling a database from posts on scale readings which looks good). His stuff is an excellent addition as he strives to cite manufacturer, DOT or NHTSA or other authorities and lend understanding.

That group over there really enjoys problem-solving hitch rigging questions, but, as with any enthusiast group, beware of treading on consensus (sacred cows).

Yeah, Sean, had a few of them try to take me to task when I "tried" to point out that an important difference between the PP and the HA was in the adjustability of the former in comparison to the latter [PP hitch head versus HA non-adjustable stinger] . . was saving the trump of sending them to your website (that thread closed early) for another boiling-on-the-stove towing dispute to, I don't know . . just read it for themselves.

Experimentation means a lot in regards hitch rigging, and I do admire those who use a scale regularly, report, and photograph. We all get to learn.

Like the OP I too want the best ride . . but first is respect for the numbers.

.
.
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Hensley Arrow. 9-cpm solo, 15-cpm towing
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Old 09-21-2010, 09:13 PM   #11
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Unfortunatly, I have no pix of the rig. I have to wash it soon so I'll post some pics then and show the set up of the hitch. The Sherline is the scale I'm thinking of buying to check the tongue weight.
I wanted to borrow one from the local Airstream dealer where I bought my stream, but they just looked at me like I was a Martian. I guess they don't use them.
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Old 09-21-2010, 09:21 PM   #12
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I had my Hensley installed at ROGER WILLIAMS in Weatherford (ironically, bought the truck next door the week before) and I'd've bet Dave had one around (used to post here as well; but seems gone from both there and here). It's a disappointment, isn't it, that a "high end" dealer fails to own such a basic (and cheap) tool. Heck, my small engine repair shop owner has a $700 lawnmower blade balancer. And while some commercial mowers go for $15k, it's still not a decent comparison to the money invested in the TT and TV around here, new or used.
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Old 09-21-2010, 09:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
You don't want to think on the meticulous Mr. Gratz (posts frequently on RV.net on the "Towing" subforum, along with a regular cast of characters) and his penchant for detail in re numbers? (Ha!) (And folks around here think 2Air is tough). I do like what he comes up with (he is currently compiling a database from posts on scale readings which looks good). His stuff is an excellent addition as he strives to cite manufacturer, DOT or NHTSA or other authorities and lend understanding.
He comes up with a few good points from time to time but don't tell him I said so... I get too much business from his rants against me and my product. If he didn't exist, I'd have to hire someone to play him in the forums.


Quote:
Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
Yeah, Sean, had a few of them try to take me to task when I "tried" to point out that an important difference between the PP and the HA was in the adjustability of the former in comparison to the latter [PP hitch head versus HA non-adjustable stinger] . . was saving the trump of sending them to your website (that thread closed early) for another boiling-on-the-stove towing dispute to, I don't know . . just read it for themselves.
You mean read it from actual customers using the product? THAT couldn't possibly mean anything could it? There's a CITRUS based company that arrogantly posts how they know everything, and my product doesn't work, and they "rejected" it because it didn't work... blah, blah, blah... I guess the 2500+ customers are all idiots in their minds. I do get it though, citrus is acidic and acidic thinking includes a whole host of self-destructive elements that denigrate and weaken and finally pulverize themselves into nothingness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
Experimentation means a lot in regards hitch rigging, and I do admire those who use a scale regularly, report, and photograph. We all get to learn.

Like the OP I too want the best ride . . but first is respect for the numbers.
Yes, it really is that simple, isn't it?
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Old 09-21-2010, 11:11 PM   #14
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Be careful of anything on hitching that appears over at rv.net.

One of the the forum management was in a crash in the 1970s in a rig involving a full size sedan with air suspension and a trailer with no sway control. He subsequently swore off trailers entirely, has a motorhome now, and dispenses overly conservative advice based mainly on derating TV manufacturers' weights by 20%.

Lots of other people there with the "anything less than a diesel 1 ton can only pull a popup" mentality.
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