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Old 09-21-2010, 11:18 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Sean Woodruff View Post
---I get too much business from his rants against me and my product. If he didn't exist, I'd have to hire someone to play him in the forums.
Perhaps a sales commission would be in order?

If you agree, may I suggest your sending a contribution, commensurate with three years of beneficial ranting, to Habitat for Humanity International on my behalf?

It's tax deductible.

Ron
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Old 09-22-2010, 08:35 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Jammer View Post
Be careful of anything on hitching that appears over at rv.net.

Lots of other people there with the "anything less than a diesel 1 ton can only pull a popup" mentality.
Isn't that the truth! The Fred, Barney, and crew over there seem to be living in the dark ages of towing with so much dated info.
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Old 09-22-2010, 08:52 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Bluto View Post
I think I have a perfect set up right now as the truck and trailer ride really well. But, I'd like some opinions. Maybe I can make it even better. Do the weight ratios look OK?Going by the "seat of the pants" it's a smooth ride and a controlled drive in any conditions I've seen so far.

Here's the set up:

1 ton dually TV
27' FB 2010 Classic
Old Reese trunion WD bars rated at 1000 lbs.
Airsafe Hitch class V
Class V receiver hitch

Truck alone at scale with full fuel & empty bed:
Steering Axle 4480
Drive Axle 3660
Trailer Axles 0
Total 8140#

Loaded for travel, both truck and trailer hitched and wd bars in use w/ Airsafe hitch at 60 psi:

Steering Axle 4680
Drive Axle 5760
Trailer Axles 6960
Hey Larry,
Look's like you are on the right track....your truck weights and mine are pretty close, apparently, you carry quite a lot of "stuff" in your bed also.
Keep on "tweaking", and it shouldn't take too long to find the "sweet spot".

A lot of advice on the Forums, some of it good, some of it is a lot of hot air....but you gotta do what's best for you.

I've always checked the weights, if they're sorta close, and the truck is level, and the trailer is level, and there a bit of a "bend" in the W/D bars, you should be good to go.

Good luck, and keep us posted.
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Old 09-24-2010, 02:49 PM   #18
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I think some more reading over on RV.net is in order before saying that the "Towing" subforum isn't worth reading. I may tweak Mr. Gratz's tail, but that is more to his style than to who he is OR the substance with which he is trying to work.

Statements like this are useful:

The amount we need to distribute to the front axle is roughly equal to the amount which has been removed from the front axle. Typically, the amount removed from the front axle is equal to about 50% of the tongue weight. This has been confirmed by many scales reports. The actual percentage depends on TV wheelbase and ball overhang.

Scales data also indicate it is not uncommon for a properly-adjusted WD system to transfer a load equal to about 25% of tongue weight to the TT's axles. And, a pretty good rule of thumb is that the load transferred to the TV's front axle will be about 2 times the amount transferred to the TT; and the load removed from the TV's rear axle will be equal to about 3 times the load transferred to the TT. The actual multipliers depend on TV wheelbase, TV ball overhang, and distance from ball coupler to TT axles.

For example, a 1000# tongue weight, without WD, might remove about 500# from the front axle and add about 1500# to the rear axle. The WD system, when properly adjusted, might transfer 250# to the TT's axles.
The load transferred to the TT, in turn, could cause about 500# to be added back onto the front axle (giving a net change of about zero); and about 750# would be removed from the rear axle (giving a net addition of about 750#).


One can go after the suppositions, the hypotheses, which drive this statement, but the above is well-said. Worth copying or bookmarking for reference against other statements. What I read is someone trying to parse the numbers against the recommendations. One can speculate past that point -- on one's own -- but the attempt to correlate numbers against recommendations is basic.

Applying towing recommendations of TV manufacturer, hitch manufacturer, and TT manufacturer to a particular rig is no different there than here. There may be disagreement, and resistance to some things, but one would be pretty well served at either of these boards if the rig in question was 25' and a half-ton. The questions would be the same, and so would the responses.

Compare the above two Gratz quotes and combine it with this:

http://www.rvlifemag.com/file313/hitchhints.html

These two, alone, IMO, constitute a good start in setting up a hitch.

The questions of "why" are different questions. (And another set of bookmarks, quotes, etc).

There is a wealth of information on that board alone that one would miss out on if ignored. I have copied or bookmarked many good posts on brake wiring, wheel stud stretch, welding, etc, that all have to do with trailer components NOT to be found here for instance. Either/Or is a false dichotomy in re towing information and the different boards.

We would hope that consensus means change in the light of new information, corrected knowledge and applied experience. And there are none of us exempt from arm chair hypothesizing which we may later regret.

The OP has asked a reasonable [set] of questions in re his hitch rigging. The responses would be no different, thus far in the thread (despite a divergence I'm now sorry to have contributed to) on either board: complete scale numbers, please, and some more photos.

.
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:11 PM   #19
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REDNAX... A very thoughtful reply. I do have one question. In the RV Lifestyle article, what does Andy Thompson mean by using a 1/2" bolt "pushed through two overlapping links" to gain 1/3 of a link adjustment? It looks like I need about that much more tension, but I don't understand where he intends the bolt to go.
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:24 PM   #20
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He's indicating that a whole other link isn't called for, but "half a link" (thus the bolt). One may argue with this, keep in mind.
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:28 PM   #21
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fine idea, but NOT a canadian invention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wbrownrr View Post
... using a 1/2" bolt "pushed through two overlapping links" to gain 1/3 of a link adjustment...
the bolt goes IN the space where the 2 links touch/overlap/connect.

there is NO gap there since the links touch tightly under tension,

but sticking a bolt into that area MAKES 4 a gap.

so while the links are SLACK a bolt can be inserted in the INTERspace where they overlap.

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now when tensioned/stretched the 2 links (and total chain) are 'shorter' by whatever was stuck in the space.

so the 1/3rd adjustment 'gain' is actually a 1/3 SHORTER chain link.

cheers
2air'
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:30 PM   #22
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REDNAX... Right, I understand what he is trying to accomplish, I just don't understand how the bolt is used in the link. Also, can't intermediate adjustments be made by slightly increasing the rear-ward tilt of the hitch ball? Thanks for thinking this through with me, I'm trying to dial-in my hitch adjustment.
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:38 PM   #23
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Fine tuning bar tension

A picture is worth a 1,000 words.

This is a great way to fine tune the bar tension. Thnxs Can Am for the great idea.
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:50 PM   #24
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Ah ha! That's what I was looking for. Thanks, Road Ruler.
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:50 PM   #25
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Sorry, he did state it and I repeated it. A bolt with washers and locking nut to take up "space" within the link. Should start own thread, or, better, IMO, go to this thread and post with numbers & photos:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...-in-17984.html

Another quote (attribution lost; BryanL?):

Adjust the hitch ball height to 'level' the trailer.

Adjust the weight distributing bars to 'level' the tow
vehicle.

Adjust the hitch head angle to 'level' the bars.



Comes prior to "hair-fine" adjustments such as bolt-in-link, IMO. I see these things as being points of departure for thinking and experimenting. The numbers are the ONLY real thing (past measurements of height before & after hitching).

The further point, as with -- again -- the OP's question, is that it is the accumulation of numbers over time (trips) and experience with continued adjustments. TV's, TT's all tend to gain weight. The driver accumulates knowledge of how his rig handles (we hope), and it is through weight scale numbers and numbers alone that we can hope to perfect STATIC conditions as the predictor of dynamic conditions. ("Predictor" is too strong a word; it is that we hope to more perfectly fit the recommendations for our TT's & TV's manufacturer guidelines for towing).

Setting up a WDH the first time, correctly, is a PITA because it's new to us. But continued use of a certified scale ought to be second nature after awhile. Only then do we know what changes in the rigging really work. It's easy enough to whip through the scale on the way to the fuel island. And cheap for the benefits.

Think, "body of knowledge".

.

.
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:55 PM   #26
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Thanks to all of you for the clarification. As usualy, the forum comes through.
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:58 PM   #27
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A one-tonne dually's stiff suspension could easily damage a lighter weight AS by shaking it to pieces. That combo is not good idea IMO.
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Old 09-24-2010, 06:21 PM   #28
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Quote:
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A one-tonne dually's stiff suspension could easily damage a lighter weight AS by shaking it to pieces. That combo is not good idea IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluto View Post
1 ton dually TV
27' FB 2010 Classic
Old Reese trunion WD bars rated at 1000 lbs.
Airsafe Hitch class V
Class V receiver hitch


Loaded for travel, both truck and trailer hitched and wd bars in use w/ Airsafe hitch at 60 psi:
Hi, this is why he has the Airsafe Hitch.
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