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WayWard Wind · 07-14-2003, 04:48 AM

Thanks Kevin for the come-back. I thought that's what you were refering to regarding the dropped links. The reason I asked is because the set-up instructions that came with the Reese WD states that if there are LESS than 5 links between the hook & u-bolt then the ballmount angle needs adjustment. I need to take the unit back to the dealer & see if the set-up is correct, as I figured that the dealer tech's SHOULD know what they're doing. I'm just not that up on WD alinement, but perhaps I need to pay more attention to details.
Best,

Chuck · 07-14-2003, 06:53 AM

Well, I don't know what these europeans are using, but they would have to be dumb if they put MY trailer (not all that huge) onto MY truck without WD equipment, looked at it, and thought it was safe. (remember the VW commercial, where they first hook up the A/S to a beetle, and the front wheels lift off the ground? well, it isn't THAT bad...but almost!). It says right on my factory installed hitch that it is rated for 500lbs tounge weight, or 1000lbs with weight distribution, and 5000lbs trailer weight, 10,000lbs WD. But ANYway...

I still need some fine-tuning on my hitch. The directions on the reese site are confusing, where they list the table for how high off the ground the ends of the spring-bars should be. First of all, my coupler/trailer tounge doesn't match any of the three in the diagram. on top of that, the bars I have are only 28" long, and I believe that all the more current bars are 30". So that's going to affect those measurements, too.

I set it up as close as I could to the directions, with the ball height 1" higher than the height that the trailer coupler is supposed to ride, and angled the head back so that the end of the spring bar was about 7" above the ground. (didnt' take much angle; its only a couple of teeth back from "0".). When I hooked up the trailer, and tightened up the springs, the trailer was still too nose-low. so raised it by 1 more link. The bars had quite a bow to them, but the trailer rode level. When I got to my destination, I had a difficult time un-coupling the trailer, because the bars were so tight. raising the trailer with the jack, the coupler wouldn't come off the ball...it let go of it, but only rose half-way clear, and then the spring bars started lifting the truck. My intention was to just raise the trailer enough to take the tension off the spring bars, so I could unhook them easily, but it couldn't be done under this configuration. (This was with the 5th link of the chain on the snap-up bracket; I think that I should probably be using the third or 4th. )

So, I think what I need to do before my next trip is to raise the head another notch (hole?) on the draw-bar, and increase the angle backward.

j54mark · 07-14-2003, 07:08 AM

Chuck, I am not sure I totally understand your post, so I may be suggesting something here that does not apply.

Your post seems to say you released the coupler, then raised the tongue jack to release the spring bars. On my rig, this would not only be difficult, but probably impossible. The easier method is to leave the coupler hitched, raise the tongue (which will also raise the back of the truck), and release the spring bars first. Then lower the tongue so you can release the coupler.

Of course, this is much easier with an electric jack.

Mark

uwe · 07-14-2003, 10:24 AM

It is common practice in Europe to use a small trailer as sort of an instant pickup truck - just add car. Any car, for the most part.
Pickups and large SUV's are rare in Europe, the largest size is like a Jeep Grand Cherokee ( usually with a French turbo diesel).
Tow and hitch weight ratings are much different. Receiver tow bars are mostly illegal. Brake systems must be hydraulic, usually of the surge brake type.
So, they have to have lighter tongue weights and lighter trailers to tow with their passenger cars of small SUV's. The speed limit in Germany is about 50mph for trucks and vehicles with trailers.
The legalities do not allow for weight distributing hitches and electric brakes.
30mpg is bad gas mileage in Europe - they start smiling at 40+mpg.......

Pahaska · 07-14-2003, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by j54mark
Chuck, I am not sure I totally understand your post, so I may be suggesting something here that does not apply.

Your post seems to say you released the coupler, then raised the tongue jack to release the spring bars. On my rig, this would not only be difficult, but probably impossible. The easier method is to leave the coupler hitched, raise the tongue (which will also raise the back of the truck), and release the spring bars first. Then lower the tongue so you can release the coupler.

Of course, this is much easier with an electric jack.

Mark

Just the opposite in my case. I always unlock the coupler first, raise the tongue jack a ways, and then release the chains. When I release the second chain, the coupler usually rises at least half way off the ball. A touch of the tongue jack and I'm ready to pull the truck away. With the jack raised, the chains release very easily. I barely have to use the pipe.

I have been doing this on two trailers for about 6 years and it works just great.

bryanl · 07-14-2003, 12:43 PM

John,

releasing the coupler from the ball prior to releaing the spring bars is more hazardous than leaving the coupler and ball locked together while you release spring bar tension.

If you lift your coupler and ball together about five inches, the spring bars should have no load which means handling the drop chain lever is less likely to cause a harsh break over center resulting in arm injury.

Its always best to remove as much load as possible before manipulating things.

Pahaska · 07-14-2003, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Leipper
John,

releasing the coupler from the ball prior to releaing the spring bars is more hazardous than leaving the coupler and ball locked together while you release spring bar tension.

If you lift your coupler and ball together about five inches, the spring bars should have no load which means handling the drop chain lever is less likely to cause a harsh break over center resulting in arm injury.

Its always best to remove as much load as possible before manipulating things.

One difference may be that I have (and need) only 550# bars, but doing it my way there is no "harsh break over center". I don't lift the jack more than about 3" or so, the truck rises with it, the ends of the bars rise slightly (look at the geometry), and the coupler stays lightly on the ball until the spring bars are released. Then the coupler usually rises about an inch on the ball . Releasing the chains is an easy one-handed operation that hardly requires the "pipe".

I have done it both ways over the past 6 years and this way certainly works best for me.

Silvertwinkie · 07-14-2003, 01:23 PM

From reading this, perhaps I have some overkill then. The ride is not uncomfortable, but I do have the 1200# bars. I use the second link on the chain and after a few more connections (sway, break-away, lights/brakes, I'm off.

Both vehicles are near dead level with the bars as configured. If the bars are not on, the rear of the car sags very low and the Bambi leans forward greatly.

Good, bad, or ugly. All comments welcome!

Eric

Chas · 07-14-2003, 01:27 PM

I like manhandling mine,

Feels good to put the old pipe onto the ends of them there snap up brackets and just lay them on over!! Releasing them is even more exciting, sprained elbows?, broken wrists?, bruised shins?, not yet!

John saw the way I did them at our Austin Forum meet and told me what he thought of it and he's probably right. I guess I'm just young, dumb and full of (something). Myself, I'm not sure if it is good for the tongue jack to be lifting the truck and the trailer tongue to ease the install of the spring bars. I myself haven't ever been able to unlock the ball coupler with the spring bars tensioned up and don't think it is a good idea either.

Chas

bryanl · 07-14-2003, 01:36 PM

If the ball drops after you release the spring bars, there is a load on the spring bars as they are what is keeping the ball elevated.

If you can release the spring bars without any leverage, there is very little load on them as a lever is what helps to reduce the load forces in exchange for distance.

What I find is that, for tongue loads of the 600 to 1000 lb variety and for most tow vehicles, the spring bar loading requires about 5 inches hitch lift to nullify. If much less lift is required, a reasonable conclusion is that the spring bars are insufficiently loaded. If much more is needed, the implication is that the spring bars are overloaded. (the loading is usually changed by ball angle and chain link adjustments)

Dealing with springs under load is hazardous and the more load the more hazard. Caution and care are needed.

One path towards success and safety is limiting the number of pieces loose at any one time.

Silvertwinkie · 07-14-2003, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chas
I like manhandling mine,
Chas

85MH325 · 07-14-2003, 01:56 PM

The instructions can be downloaded from Reese in .pdf format at:

http://www.reeseprod.com/

Straight from the "Reese" installation instructions:

"1. Connect trailer to car. Raise trailer tongue and rear of car with jack. Install spring bar trunnion in balll mount. Place bottom trunnion into lower socket first. Spring bars may be used on either side. Mate spring bar and cam to cam arms. Pull chain vertical and place link on hook of snap-up bracket.

2. Place snap-up in position. Install safety pin. Install second spring bar using the same number of chain links."

Since it's their product, I would presume that they are the experts when it comes to using their products.

Roger

Chuck · 07-14-2003, 02:21 PM

"Raise trailer tounge and rear of car with jack"

How much??????????????

that's one of the instructions from reese that I'm just not getting.

anyway, as to the "un-hooking" discussion, I had the spring bars so tight that the coupler wouldn't come off the ball. raising it any amount lifted the back of the truck off the ground via the spring bars. (the weight of the trailer pushes the coupler down; the tension on the spring bars pushes the truck up into the coupler. it was being squeezed from both directions. wouldn't have mattered if I released the coupler first, or not.)

85MH325 · 07-14-2003, 03:41 PM

Chuck,

I usually drop three links, placing the bracket hook in the fifth link from the loop of the cam bar when it's hooked up. That lets the 1000lb bars bend just about an inch on mine when I'm hooking it up for my 800 lb tongue weight.

To drop it, I raise the tongue AND attached truck (usually about 6-8 inches or so PAST where the ball & coupler disconnect and reconnect inside the coupler) until there is little or no pressure remaining on the spring bars. In other words, raise the back end of the truck 6-8" from it's neutral position using the trailer's tongue jack. You will see the tension release from the bars. The brackets will open very easily, usually without the use of the bar, the spring bars drop off, and then lower the unit a few inches so that there is some weight back on the ball and the coupler will open easily.

Then I open the coupler and raise the tongue again until the ball and coupler separate. Hopefully when everything else is disconnected (chains, pigtail, etc.) you can drive off.

It's very painless process with an electric jack. It's a pain in the a** if you have a manual crank jack!

Roger

Silvertwinkie · 07-14-2003, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 85MH325
It's very painless process with an electric jack. It's a pain in the a** if you have a manual crank jack!

Roger

You haven't cranked in a while. It's a great workout!

With my 1200# bars there is no noticeable bend at all. However, I do believe given the fact that it does level the car and the camper nicely that it is distributing most of what it should.

Any idea if I'm right here?

Eric

j54mark · 07-14-2003, 07:18 PM

Chuck, I just have to ask, to satisfy my curiosity. Just what do you mean?

"I had the spring bars so tight that the coupler wouldn't come off the ball. raising it any amount lifted the back of the truck off the ground via the spring bars. "

Do you mean to say that you when you raised the tongue jack the back wheels of your truck came off the ground?!!

If all you are saying is that the back end of your truck came up with the trailer tongue, well of course it would. But not from the spring bars, from the fact that you are jacking it up via the coupler. And doing so takes the load off the springs to facilitate their removal.

"How much??????????????
that's one of the instructions from reese that I'm just not getting."

That's an easy one. It depends. Enough to reduce or eliminate the propensity of the springs to snap over the release lever when the springs still have too much tension on them. Six inches or so.

Signed, Perplexed (Mark )

WayWard Wind · 07-14-2003, 08:51 PM

Eric ---it seems you must have close to the same set-up as I have ---02 Bambi --Reese WD w/1200# spring bars & Dual Cam Sway control. I have the same look to my unit re; no noticeable bending of the spring bars. the ride seems o.k, but I am wondering if I am transfering to much of the road shock to the trailer, due to the 1200# spring bars. Reese tells me --no problem --the dealer tells me---no problem,. The outfit sets level. How come does it not seem right to me? Can't seem to find a good answer that is satisfactory & convinces me that the 1200# bars are o.k.. Anyway the dealer has given me some ideas to try, when we pull out for the upcoming week-end. if I find that the suggestions don't pan out , then he will have me try some 800# spring bars.
Best,

Chuck · 07-15-2003, 03:19 AM

Mark, when this happened, the coupler was un-hooked. it started to raise off the ball, but only about an inch or so (never got close to clearing the ball); then the spring bars started lifting the truck. If there was a spot where the tension from the spring bars was reduced, I couldn't find it. that's why I say that they were too tight. With my old setup, (ball was too high, non-adjustable, and I couldn't get the trailer level while distributing enough weight to the front of my truck...so I bought an adjustable ball and draw-bar, hence the new experiments), I would release the coupler, raise the trailer until the coupler cleared the ball, at which point the spring bars had no tension. I would then unhook the spring bars with no dangerous and unpredictable "snap", and then drive away.

At the point where the instructions say to "raise the trailer and vehicle with the jack", the spring bars have not yet been attached, so there is nothing to get "slack". hence my question. I suspect that they must mean that you should raise the trailer and vehicle back up to the height where the vehicle started (an inch or so above the desired trailer coupler height). then attach the spring bars, and when you lower the jack, the weight settles evenly onto the truck. but it is not clear.

john hd · 07-15-2003, 04:20 AM

one side benefit of having the jack to lift the tow vehicle up on initial hookup is...

you are 100% sure the coupler has captured the ball and not just sitting on top.

or to worn, or out of adjustment to keep them coupled.

plus it makes the chains a heck of a lot easier to hook up.

john

85MH325 · 07-15-2003, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chuck
At the point where the instructions say to "raise the trailer and vehicle with the jack", the spring bars have not yet been attached, so there is nothing to get "slack". hence my question. I suspect that they must mean that you should raise the trailer and vehicle back up to the height where the vehicle started (an inch or so above the desired trailer coupler height). then attach the spring bars, and when you lower the jack, the weight settles evenly onto the truck. but it is not clear.

When hooking up, lower the coupler onto the hitchball and close the coupler. Raise the trailer and vehicle with the jack the 6 to 8 inches to install the spring bars. The bar Reese supplies is only 12" long, so you shouldn't have to apply a great deal of force to get the chain bracket to close. I occasionally don't even use the bar on the bracket. Slip the chain over the bracket hook on both sides, making sure that the chain is the same length on both sides and close them. Then let the jack back down and your hitch assembly will be tight.

Roger