Weight distribution hitch not needed

[Boog]

Originally Posted by cabinetmaker

The point I was trying to make was that the gentleman that listed his towing information for a chevy 2500 was less than the Ford or Ram 1/2 tons. Your 12,200 just confirms this more.

The chevy guy never responded so I didn't get any information on why his chevy 2500 was so poorly rated for towing.

Hi, I wasn't paying any real attention to the maximum trailer weight that my 2001 2500HD could pull (probably because of the factory hitch), my point was that Chevrolet stated that my truck did not require weight distribution and sway control until you exceeded 7500 pounds in trailer weight... which is more to what the OP posted.

[cabinetmaker]

We use 28' enclosed cargo trailers in our business that when full of cabinets will exceed 10,000 lbs...never used a weight distribution hitch or sway bar. This is towing 350 miles of freeway each way to make deliveries. Been doing this for years.

Trailers have 16" wheel dual 7000# axles and electric brakes. Trailer is 8.5' tall and 8' wide. Loaded properly it travels down the highway beautifully being pulled by my Ram 3500.

I pass many cargo trailer setups on the highway...don't recall seeing any special hitches. The key is to have the right size tow vehicle.

[m.hony]

I have also seen cargo trailers with weight distribution and sway control .

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by Ultradog

Hmmm,
How does emotional attachment affect towing capacity, braking ability and safety?
And are you saying the many trips I've made to TX,MO,NE,WI,IA,KS,IN,IL,OK,AR,SD,ND and all over MN with my 11K utility trailer were not long trips in unfamiliar territory?

Your original question was about why Airstreamers seem to like to run overhitched and with big trucks relative to the size of their trailer, compared to utility and cargo trailers you see towed by pickups. I never said that the answer was that emotional attachment affects the actual performance of the trailer, my point was that people make different decisions about their second home than they do about a tool.

Regarding long trips you've taken with your utility trailer somehow negating my earlier statement, look up the difference between "few" and "none."

[Ultradog]

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX

Your original question was about why Airstreamers seem to like to run overhitched and with big trucks relative to the size of their trailer, compared to utility and cargo trailers you see towed by pickups. I never said that the answer was that emotional attachment affects the actual performance of the trailer, my point was that people make different decisions about their second home than they do about a tool.

Regarding long trips you've taken with your utility trailer somehow negating my earlier statement, look up the difference between "few" and "none."

At least we agree that they're over horsed (my term) and over hitched.
As for the few and none comment;
I did get your sarcasm but sorry, I did not get your point.

[USAtraveler]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

Use of WD hitches aren't perpetuated by myths. They are based on some reasonable engineering and as most of us keep saying, every situation and towing combo is different. Once size doesn't fit all. You really can't blanket say that because you drive an XYZ 3500 pickup they don't need one, if you haven't done the research to back that up on their specific towing application.

The myth you are trying to perpetuate is the one that says anyone can buy this type of vehicle and forget about WD, and in some camps those who also state you don't need sway control. All I'm trying to do as well as many others is to state that you have to do your homework and not accept blanket statements that by using this specific vehicle, you are exempt from the need. If you do your homework, weigh the vehicle with your options, your camping load, your trailer packed and prepped for a typical trip, only then will you be able to determine that you are within axle limits, within combined GVWR limits, and the tow vehicle and trailer parallel with the ground without using a WD set up.Jack

I think in may cases it is easier than that, Jack. For example, if your TV is a pick-up heavier than your AS trailer, you have good driving skills and use common sense, then you don't need a WD hitch or sway bars....period. If all other towing variables are within limits, tongue weight, max payload, tire pressure, linear levelness, brake control properly adjusted, then the mfg's max towing limit should also be within the ability of an experienced driver to handle without WD.

I'm not saying a WD hitch is never recommended. A shorter wheelbase SUV with coil springs attempting to tow a heavier trailer is definitely one case in which a WD hitch w/sway control seems advisable. But no amount of measuring up and adding WD is going to fix bad driving and poor judgement. If you feel so unsure of your driving skills pulling a trailer, then you probably shouldn't be!

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by Ultradog

Hmmm,
How does emotional attachment affect towing capacity, braking ability and safety?
And are you saying the many trips I've made to TX,MO,NE,WI,IA,KS,IN,IL,OK,AR,SD,ND and all over MN with my 11K utility trailer were not long trips in unfamiliar territory?

Originally Posted by Ultradog

At least we agree that they're over horsed (my term) and over hitched.
As for the few and none comment;
I did get your sarcasm but sorry, I did not get your point.

You seemed to interpret my statement that few people use a utility trailer as a long-distance traveling machine like a travel trailer as saying "no one takes long trips into unfamiliar places with a utility trailer."

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by cabinetmaker

Not sure the difference...got the info from Ford website. Maybe the 2017 is lower than 2015's? Could be your configuration is different?

The point I was trying to make was that the gentleman that listed his towing information for a chevy 2500 was less than the Ford or Ram 1/2 tons. Your 12,200 just confirms this more.

The chevy guy never responded so I didn't get any information on why his chevy 2500 was so poorly rated for towing.

FWIW, I once upon a time had a 2500HD Silverado with 3.73 rear ratio, 6.0 liter engine, 4L80E transmission, that only had an 8,000 pound towing capacity. I have no idea why, that's just what was in the owner's manual.

[Boxite]

Originally Posted by overlander63

FWIW, I once upon a time had a 2500HD Silverado with 3.73 rear ratio, 6.0 liter engine, 4L80E transmission, that only had an 8,000 pound towing capacity. I have no idea why, that's just what was in the owner's manual.

Probably due to installed equipment and/or tires. (Lack of towing-package, no transmission-cooler, low-capacity installed hitch, oversized tires... any of which are contrary for towing capacity.)

[drairstream]

You may not think you need WD hitch, but you do. In your other thread you seem to be trying to cheat down the tongue weight with internal weight distribution through loading,
the hitch weight is I believe a dry weight, a sure way to go over payload and GVWR or to compromise handling is to start hauling around a bunch of water to add ballast.

Check out some of the accidents recently posted on this site and you'll think more than once about trying to overload your TT, Carry what you need and nothing more and you will have fewer troubles in your travels.

You asked, we warn.

[MelGoddard]

Originally Posted by Mattirs

The 2017 could have heavier options on it. Supercrew due to the 4 doors and larger cab is several hundred pounds heavier.

My F-150 is also a Super Crew, 5.5ft box.
The door plaque lists a Gross weight at 7000 lbs. adequate for me.
I would have loved to get those extending tow mirrors, but was unable to on this vehicle. Drat!

[MelGoddard]

Ten pages??? Wheee, don't yah just love it???

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by cabinetmaker

I agree Jack...but what I don't understand is why people want to buy and use too small of a tow vehicle. There are claims that say a weight distribution hitch can make any vehicle tow a airstream. Really? The video said most are overloaded...I tend to agree.



I have heard the comment that 90% of vehicle use will not be towing...so they buy the most comfortable vehicle that has marginal towing capacity and give up much safety during the most important 10% of driving they will do...towing the airstream. Completely backwards thinking...and what if they decide later to get a bigger airstream?



We are really living in a great time to be airstreaming. There are many great tow vehicle options to choose from...I just hope everyone chooses wisely!

Too small? One needs to understand the assumptions being made.

It isn't the size of the TV. It's the resulting stability of a combined vehicle that matters.

The larger the pickup the worse the stability. Solo or towing.

The more stable a solo vehicle, pretty well the same for a combined vehicle.

As with too many others around here -- bereft of experience, and immune to reason (physics) -- the lack of feedback and isolation from what is happening makes for worse results, not better.

By the time one feels a 4WD one ton start to turn over, it's too late to correct. Same for reduced traction roads. Won't steer.

A better designed vehicle won't have the same problems. The driver is warned by better feedback, and the rig is more resistant to being out of control. In every plane.

Is my 18-wheeler more stable due to size and weight? Ha! Keep the beers coming.

Towing an open flat trailer with virtually no wind load is a piece of cake, WD or no WD given proper numbers.

But add in TT sail area, (and potentially higher COG) and the equation can change. Will change.

I've towed my 35' Silver Streak with and without a WDH. Receiver up to vertical force.

Against using Hensley designed hitch, it's a lousy day at the wheel. Too much work. And far too easy to induce a tail-out situation with a flick of the wrist.

But those hitches are dirt cheap for what they do: prevent the weak link of a one ton from screwing up inherently good trailer design road manners.

It's the truck that'll cause the wreck.

Were "you" an imaginary brother-in-law I detested, divorced from a sister, I'd feed you yet more beers and encouraged this delusion. We may soon be rid of "you" for good.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Ultradog

Jack,



There are millions of heavy utility trailers pulled billions of miles each year without much ado over videos and weight ratios, WDs, nail biting and internet arguments.

And while I don't have any statistics at hand I doubt the crash rate for heavy utility trailers is much higher than it is for Airstreams.

What is it about Airstreams that make them so inherently risky to tow that everyone needs a grossly oversized TV and an expensive WD to boot?

Are these "utility trailers" on 8000-mile vacations?

Most never get 150-miles from the barn.

Given the maintenance most of them appear to receive it's a wonder they aren't involved in even more one vehicle accidents.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

Thank you for summarizing this in such clear and concise manner.

You have expressed my thoughts and feelings on this subject exactly.

I have extensive on hands experience with heavy equipment, trucks and trailing having operated my own Infrastructure Construction business for forty years.

Might try a close reading of Andrew Thomson in his Hitch Hints columns as well as the company website at Can Am RV. There's a reason SAE and Airstream use him as a consultant.

Fred Puhns book on vehicle handling is cheap and layman accessible.

Or that there are those of us with experience going back more than forty five years. Virtually no tow ratings and hitch receivers were built locally from schematics. (And were far better than today's). Mr Thomson has set up more than 10,000 trailers thru his family dealership. And made methodical the reasons why some things work better than others.

Anyone who hasn't used a car to tow an AS should stay out of that end of things.

If there are those who wish to tow without WD, so be it. There are also those who posit that drum brakes are also adequate. Even some promoting non-radial tires.

Given that I almost never see an AS being towed level in itself, too much of this isn't surprising. Failures in basic understanding abound.

The Internet has made all of this easy to acquire as information to act upon.
The horrors we used to have to face in buying and deciphering books with complete paragraphs filling the pages. Subject and predicate. Footnotes. Graphs. Formulas. Aargh!!

[xrvr]

Why us it often the assumption that one ton tv are four wheel drive. Mine isn't, and handles totally different than a four wheel drive. Slight modification to a heavybtruck by adding payload greatly increases the stability. Large trucks set up to return solo wheel well heights whith WD without first putting payload on the bed are only returning these trucks to the unstabikity they have when driving solo. To increase stability of a large truck, payload in the bed us required, that is how they are designed. They are not designed to be used without load, they are trucks. Half tons differ. So with payload in bed, than set up the WD if you insist on using it. Usually not necessary. Again, to have a stable large pickup, some amount of payload is necessary, solo or towing. From my experience.

[crispyboy]

Originally Posted by avionstream

Why us it often the assumption that one ton tv are four wheel drive. Mine isn't, and handles totally different than a four wheel drive.

Avionstream,
Most pickups are 4 wheel drive - that is mainly what one see's traveling down the road and in dealerships.
Your 2wd truck only differs in the front suspension which results in a better ride/steering over 4 wheel drive. The rear spring pack will be the same except for a spacer between the spring pack and rear axle.

I won't disagree with you that a 3/4 and 1 ton truck does ride and perform better with some weight on the rear. One thing to keep in mind that I have also been told by someone in the know that the weight distribution on a heavy truck should be dialed in such that there is a gap between the overload springs and the main spring pack. This will give the best ride for the trailer and the WD system will help minimize the bouncing/porpoising over rough roads.

[xrvr]

Originally Posted by crispyboy

Avionstream,
Most pickups are 4 wheel drive - that is mainly what one see's traveling down the road and in dealerships.
Your 2wd truck only differs in the front suspension which results in a better ride/steering over 4 wheel drive. The rear spring pack will be the same except for a spacer between the spring pack and rear axle.

I won't disagree with you that a 3/4 and 1 ton truck does ride and perform better with some weight on the rear. One thing to keep in mind that I have also been told by someone in the know that the weight distribution on a heavy truck should be dialed in such that there is a gap between the overload springs and the main spring pack. This will give the best ride for the trailer and the WD system will help minimize the bouncing/porpoising over rough roads.

Maybe in ky, but in fl many are two wheel drive. Used for towing and hauling, not for snow.

[cabinetmaker]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Too small? One needs to understand the assumptions being made.

It isn't the size of the TV. It's the resulting stability of a combined vehicle that matters.

The larger the pickup the worse the stability. Solo or towing.

The more stable a solo vehicle, pretty well the same for a combined vehicle.

As with too many others around here -- bereft of experience, and immune to reason (physics) -- the lack of feedback and isolation from what is happening makes for worse results, not better.

By the time one feels a 4WD one ton start to turn over, it's too late to correct. Same for reduced traction roads. Won't steer.

A better designed vehicle won't have the same problems. The driver is warned by better feedback, and the rig is more resistant to being out of control. In every plane.

Is my 18-wheeler more stable due to size and weight? Ha! Keep the beers coming.

Towing an open flat trailer with virtually no wind load is a piece of cake, WD or no WD given proper numbers.

But add in TT sail area, (and potentially higher COG) and the equation can change. Will change.

I've towed my 35' Silver Streak with and without a WDH. Receiver up to vertical force.

Against using Hensley designed hitch, it's a lousy day at the wheel. Too much work. And far too easy to induce a tail-out situation with a flick of the wrist.

But those hitches are dirt cheap for what they do: prevent the weak link of a one ton from screwing up inherently good trailer design road manners.

It's the truck that'll cause the wreck.

Were "you" an imaginary brother-in-law I detested, divorced from a sister, I'd feed you yet more beers and encouraged this delusion. We may soon be rid of "you" for good.

Did you watch the "TruckTrends" video posted earlier in this thread?

They say most truck / trailer combo's are overloaded. That's not the trucks fault...it's the owners. Buying too light a tow vehicle and expecting the fancy hitches to make things safe is what causes problems.

People on here who say you can tow a 30' airstream with a f-150 just because that's what they are doing are the problem.

TruckTrend stated in the video that any trailer over 6,000-7,000 lbs should be towed with a 2500 / 3500 minimum. I happen to agree.

2500 / 3550's give you safety margins you just don't have in lighter tow vehicles...heavier braking, heavier frame, heavier springs, heavier axles, larger tires, and bigger tow mirrors.

If you use the right truck then a airstream with 1,000-1,200 tongue weight is not going to need a weight distribution hitch. Maybe a sway bar but that tounge weight on the back of a heavy duty truck will actually help level it out and make it ride and handle nice. Unloading this weight with a weight distribution to the front axle or the trailer axle will not help it handle better and could do harm to your trailer.

If you have a older 2500 that some on here seem to have and it sags too much with the trailer attached then yes I would use a WD hitch. Every setup is not going to be the same.

Older trucks don't seem to have the capabilities of the newer ones...today's 1/2 tons are the 3/4 tons of yesterday...today's 3/4 tons are the 1 tons of yesterday...today's 1 tons are the MDT's of yesterday.

[USAtraveler]

Originally Posted by cabinetmaker

Did you watch the "TruckTrends" video posted earlier in this thread?

They say most truck / trailer combo's are overloaded.

TruckTrend stated in the video that any trailer over 6,000-7,000 lbs should be towed with a 2500 / 3500 minimum. I happen to agree.

2500 / 3550's give you safety margins you just don't have in lighter tow vehicles...heavier braking, heavier frame, heavier springs, heavier axles, larger tires, and bigger tow mirrors.

If you use the right truck then a airstream with 1,000-1,200 tongue weight is not going to need a weight distribution hitch. Maybe a sway bar but that tounge weight on the back of a heavy duty truck will actually help level it out and make it ride and handle nice. Unloading this weight with a weight distribution to the front axle or the trailer axle will not help it handle better and could do harm to your trailer.

If you have a older 2500 that some on here seem to have and it sags too much with the trailer attached then yes I would use a WD hitch. Every setup is not going to be the same.

Older trucks don't seem to have the capabilities of the newer ones...today's 1/2 tons are the 3/4 tons of yesterday...today's 3/4 tons are the 1 tons of yesterday...today's 1 tons are the MDT's of yesterday.

Well said. In addition, newer trucks come with standard or optional sway control built in. I don't know what other makes call it, but on a Toyota they call it VSC...Vehicle Stability Control. On my truck there is a dashboard switch to disable VSC, although I can't imagine why one might want to do that.