Weight distribution hitch not needed

[cabinetmaker]

Originally Posted by crispyboy

OK I'll take the bait, since the OP has "stirred the pot".

I have tow the Airstream both with and without WD/Sway set up on my 7400 lb 3/4 ton diesel truck. I will take with WD/Sway EVERYDAY!!!!
Sure the truck would do it but there are differences......... With WD/sway the whole set up rides better, more controllable/predictable in cross winds, bad roads, no headlights blinding other drivers, glides over dips in the road instead of porpoising, the list goes on. Besides cost there are no negatives. There are host of potential negatives not using the correct equipment. It can be done but why not dial some safety and predictability into your travels. This equipment also assists less adept drivers in arriving safely of which there is no shortage of those on the road.
In a way it seems tougher to set up a proper anti-sway hitch with a truck that has a 3000 to 5000 lb payload mostly because I don't have faith in a friction bar setup.

And FYI I do pull utility trailers loaded down with farm equipment, hay etc... and without WD but this is typically done locally sub 50 miles from home where conditions are conducive. It is a different story when your crossing the country and are likely to encounter many different scenarios (weather events, road hazards, other drivers), some safety equipment should be used.

Your towing a 31' Airstream with a older 2009 2500 truck...I'm towing a 26' Airstream with a newer 2016 3500 truck.

I'm sure that is why I have never experienced what you describe.

Every truck / trailer combination is going to be different. There is no one size fits all. A older 2500 is closer to what the half tons are today.

A newer 2500 crewcab or megacab with 160" / 168" wheelbase and air suspension will not suffer from the too small of truck syndrome you described.

The 2500's are what the 3500's were a few years ago in towing ability. 3500's like mine are considered 4500's of old...I think you see my point.

If you replaced your truck with a current 2500 /3500 properly equipped you could go hitchless without the problems you described.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by USAtraveler

Agree...almost completely. I've been making essentially the same argument every time this WD issue comes up. My only point of departure is where you say it applies to larger pick-ups, implying only larger pick-ups. I'd say it applies anytime the trailer is lighter than the TV, whatever that vehicle is...pick-up, SUV, or sedan....and the tongue weight of the trailer does not exceed the TV payload after you've loaded both with all the cargo you will carry along.
Conversely, anytime the owner of an AS which is measurably heavier than his TV (regardless of the TV mfg's claims of towing ability), he or she is exceeding a safe limit which no WD hitch can compensate for. The place for a WD hitch is on a shorter WB vehicle like an SUV or sedan with long travel coil springs in the rear suspension to give a softer ride for passengers. There are many owners here who will swear by their WD hitches, mainly on the theory it makes them feel more secure. I have no idea where their insecurity point kicks in, but I suspect there is no amount of logical reason that will overcome their feelings.
May the battle continue!

I concur with your reasoning. That was the thought process that led me to trade in my F-150 for a F-250 Diesel. The 1/2 ton was lighter bay far and I was always pushing the load limit often being over giving me the sense of " The Tail Waging the Dog". Having towed with the F-250 now for a couple of months my reasoning has been reinforced.

[xrvr]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

OP may be right in some cases. Not mine though. Looking back at some old cat scale tix - my 2500 Diesel and 27FB reacted as follows:

Truck alone:
Steer 4620
Drive 3280

Add trailer no WD applied:
Steer 4120 (-500)
Drive 4860 (+1580)

Apply WD:
Steer 4400 (>50% FALR)
Drive 4460

And those are old tickets. Newer ones after having the hitch adjusted at Colonial got the steer to almost 100% FALR and I forget the impact on the drive. Can't find pics of those ones...

Point being - perhaps a 3/4T isn't a big truck in the OP's view but it is to me and I still value the WD hitch to balance the load somewhat - and the sway control is a must, IMO - like insurance, you don't need it until you need it.

The flaw here is that your stock unloaded weighted truck is not optimum to handling. Your truck needs weight on the rear with some taken off the front to handle properly. Stop thinking of heavy duty trucks as cars. Trucks need weight. Payload, to handle properly, so tongue weight actually helps the trucks handling and safety. It will feel different but that doesn't make it unsafe. Sway control is still needed, I use it. Some WD will work if that us the only way you can get sway control. But huge amounts if weight transfer back to stock is not necessary and in my opinion is counter productive to good towing. Remember, large trucks, not half tons us what I am talking about here. I've towed with half tons and vans and would not do it without proper WD and sc. The trailers I am towing are 25 or 27 footers or in my case now 30 footers. Little trailers withe subpar tow vehicles allow a lot of options for WD or sc.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by avionstream

Remember this thread is about towing with large over half ton tv when reading those links.

Understand but those links apply to any sized tow vehicle and any size trailer. The concepts and information presented apples to all.

Jack

[Jeffndaile]

Originally Posted by Mergatroyd

Ram 2500 with Cummins diesel:
unloaded- 62% load on front axle, 38% load on rear axle
loaded with 1000 lb. on the ball- 51% load on front axle, 49% on rear axle.

No need for WD hitch.

Would this pertain to a 1998 Dodge 2500 as well?

[rostam]

Originally Posted by avionstream

The flaw here is that your stock unloaded weighted truck is not optimum to handling. Your truck needs weight on the rear with some taken off the front to handle properly. Stop thinking of heavy duty trucks as cars. Trucks need weight. Payload, to handle properly, so tongue weight actually helps the trucks handling and safety. It will feel different but that doesn't make it unsafe. Sway control is still needed, I use it. Some WD will work if that us the only way you can get sway control. But huge amounts if weight transfer back to stock is not necessary and in my opinion is counter productive to good towing. Remember, large trucks, not half tons us what I am talking about here. I've towed with half tons and vans and would not do it without proper WD and sc. The trailers I am towing are 25 or 27 footers or in my case now 30 footers. Little trailers withe subpar tow vehicles allow a lot of options for WD or sc.

I believe you are correct. If you go to page 34 of Ford's 2017 RV & Trailer Towing Guide (https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...wing_Guide.pdf), you will see that Ford recommends that weight distribution hitch should restore 25% of the front axle load (that is removed after a trailer is hitched) for an F150 and 50% for an F250. Ford does not recommend adding 1/3 of tongue weight to front axle or restoring the front axle to its unhitched weight. Toyota, on the other hand, recommends 100% front axle load restoration.

It seems some weight distribution hitch companies are also following suit. Equalizer recommends restoring 50% of front axle load (see page 17 in http://www.equalizerhitch.com/pdf/eq...anual_0111.pdf). Reese on the other hand recommends 100% front axle load restoration.

Ron Gratz, a forum member, discussed this a while back. Apparently, having a heavier rear axle load (at the expense of a lighter front axle load) reduces the possibility of jackknifing. Also, it seems no car or hitch company recommends the equal squat rule anymore (1/3 of tongue weight on each axle).

I'd recommend reading the user manual. I truly believe most of the questions asked in this forum are answered in TV/hitch/trailer user manuals.

[Jeffndaile]

Originally Posted by Jeffndaile

Would this pertain to a 1998 Dodge 2500 as well? A two wheel drive w/automatic transmission

A two wheel drive with automatic trans that is....

[CDONA]

What we got here is a troll with a thread,

If you don't tow with a Freightliner, naked ball you are doing it wrong
See my gallery.

If you skydive, that helmet is wearing you for protection.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by CDONA

What we got here is a troll with a thread,

If you don't tow with a Freightliner, naked ball you are doing it wrong
See my gallery.

If you skydive, that helmet is wearing you for protection.

Bingo! finally someone recognized it.

[jcanavera]

Okay guys, mod hat on. Let's not let this thread turn the corner. No need to start in this direction. If you have nothing to add to the discussion, then move on. We don't need comments like the last two.

Jack

[Mergatroyd]

Originally Posted by Jeffndaile

Would this pertain to a 1998 Dodge 2500 as well?

Probably. All pickups are off balance without load due to their configuration and some or all of the load should be transferred to the rear axle for optimum weight distribution. The result you want is to have equal load on both axles. If you use a WD hitch when your front wheels are already carrying more than the rear wheels then that will decrease your stability.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by Jeffndaile

Would this pertain to a 1998 Dodge 2500 as well?

Be careful though in using assumptions without taking into account the towing load of the truck and trailer hitch weight. If you haven't watched the video that I posted the link to, you understand why you shouldn't make your decision without taking the entire situation into account. Each towing situation is different and you need to account for your truck's towing configuration, options installed in the truck, people in the truck, animals, things in the bed, hitch and ball, fuel load, you really don't know what that weight ratio between the front and rear axle is. This can be much different that the factory specs, which is for the stock truck. Then you add the weight of the hitch for your specific trailer and the numbers can change again.

Those of you who have done the diligence of weighing your vehicles can make decisions based on those numbers. I've weighed mine so I know where I'm coming from. But I would never give a blanket recommendation or take one to forgo or use a weight WD hitch and sway control to/for anyone based on my specific situation. We are all unique with our trailers, the loads we carry in our vehicles, passengers, and options that our vehicles were built with.

If you watched the video which was produced by the RV Safety Foundation you will see that 51% of the tow vehicles that they have weighed at rallies and other safety promoted programs have been found to exceed their rated capacities. Usually rear axle load or the total combined weight rating for the truck and trailer have been exceeded.

Fifth wheels account for a lot of this due to their large storage capacities, but the point to drive into everyone here is that we are all different. The blanket assumption that buying a certain sized truck can eliminate the need for WD can be a flawed assumption.

Jack

[cabinetmaker]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

Be careful though in using assumptions without taking into account the towing load of the truck and trailer hitch weight. If you haven't watched the video that I posted the link to, you understand why you shouldn't make your decision without taking the entire situation into account. Each towing situation is different and you need to account for your truck's towing configuration, options installed in the truck, people in the truck, animals, things in the bed, hitch and ball, fuel load, you really don't know what that weight ratio between the front and rear axle is. This can be much different that the factory specs, which is for the stock truck. Then you add the weight of the hitch for your specific trailer and the numbers can change again.

Those of you who have done the diligence of weighing your vehicles can make decisions based on those numbers. I've weighed mine so I know where I'm coming from. But I would never give a blanket recommendation or take one to forgo or use a weight WD hitch and sway control to/for anyone based on my specific situation. We are all unique with our trailers, the loads we carry in our vehicles, passengers, and options that our vehicles were built with.

If you watched the video which was produced by the RV Safety Foundation you will see that 51% of the tow vehicles that they have weighed at rallies and other safety promoted programs have been found to exceed their rated capacities. Usually rear axle load or the total combined weight rating for the truck and trailer have been exceeded.

Fifth wheels account for a lot of this due to their large storage capacities, but the point to drive into everyone here is that we are all different. The blanket assumption that buying a certain sized truck can eliminate the need for WD can be a flawed assumption.

Jack

I agree Jack...but what I don't understand is why people want to buy and use too small of a tow vehicle. There are claims that say a weight distribution hitch can make any vehicle tow a airstream. Really? The video said most are overloaded...I tend to agree.

I have heard the comment that 90% of vehicle use will not be towing...so they buy the most comfortable vehicle that has marginal towing capacity and give up much safety during the most important 10% of driving they will do...towing the airstream. Completely backwards thinking...and what if they decide later to get a bigger airstream?

We are really living in a great time to be airstreaming. There are many great tow vehicle options to choose from...I just hope everyone chooses wisely!

[crispyboy]

Originally Posted by cabinetmaker

Your towing a 31' Airstream with a older 2009 2500 truck...I'm towing a 26' Airstream with a newer 2016 3500 truck.

I'm sure that is why I have never experienced what you describe.

Every truck / trailer combination is going to be different. There is no one size fits all. A older 2500 is closer to what the half tons are today.

A newer 2500 crewcab or megacab with 160" / 168" wheelbase and air suspension will not suffer from the too small of truck syndrome you described.
From Rams body builder guide. A 2016 4x4 CTD, Crewcab, longbed has 2,200 lb payload. A 2009 4x4, CTD, quad cab, shortbed (what I own) has a 2,080 lb payload. 120 lbs isn't much difference. A new 2500 would still benefit from both WD/sway control hitch. I have towed the Airstream with a 2012 4x4, CTD, longbed and the only difference was the ride was a little better in the 4th generation truck.

The 2500's are what the 3500's were a few years ago in towing ability. 3500's like mine are considered 4500's of old...I think you see my point.

Yes, 3500 series trucks are a whole different animal - much heavier frame front and rear suspension change, ~900 lbs more payload - changed in 2013. WD is likely not needed, Sway control still needed. The extra payload is nice if your taking a motorcycle or ATV with you.
As a side note: Now a new problem is created with such a heavy payload in the 3500 series that you need to run an Air-Safe hitch or you risk front end separation on the trailer itself. I bought my trailer used and it had the front separation problem along with cracked aluminum from the PO's truck that was too stiffly sprung. This shows that tow vehicle can be too heavy (in the Airstream world only). 1800 to 2400 lb payload is in the "Goldilocks" area for payload because you can get a good hitch that takes care of WD and sway control.

If you replaced your truck with a current 2500 /3500 properly equipped you could go hitchless without the problems you described.

It is doubtful that I would go hitchless with a newer truck. I would be still be concerned with not having the stability and predictability that a good hitch adds to the setup. Its tough to describe the difference a pivot point projection hitch makes but your perspective may change if you could experience towing with one regardless of the tow vehicle.

...

[cabinetmaker]

Originally Posted by crispyboy

...

I think the Airstream frames were the problem not the truck.

Newer Airstreams have larger frames and I have had several (5 total) and heavy duty trucks haven't caused any problems you described.

My last heavy duty was a Ram Megacab 4x4 cummins 3500 dully...towing a 30' classic. Never had a popped rivet or any problems inside or out.

My current 26U rides very smoothly behind our Ram Megacab 4x4 cummins 3500 srw. We actually forgot the dogs water bowl on the floor once but water was still in the bowl when we stopped again.

My wife even commented how smoothly everything rides in the cabinets. Never had a drawer or door come open.

Towing on the ball is not any harder on the trailer than the weight distribution hitches transfering hitch weight to the trailer axles. I've done both and like towing on the ball without weight distributed to the trailer or my front axle. That cummins is heavy enough up front. The real key is to balance the load on the trailer. The right amount of tongue weight is most important!

[mojoe7009]

Originally Posted by LoneStar1

I just purchased a 2017 FC 25FB and a 2017 F350 diesel with every available tow option available. Yesterday I ordered a 3P ProPride to make a completely safe setup. With the newly designed F350 do I really need a $2500 WD hitch....probably not for the everyday tow. HOWEVER....for what I paid for this setup it seems a negligible investment in both safety and comfort for the what if ....high winds, tractor trailers, Rocky Mountains......one of the biggest benefits to me was the added angle the hitch pivots ....for both backing as well as close quarter maneuvering. Said all that to say....it's simply an individuals preference for how they want to tow. Good luck and safe travels to all....

DITTO! My sentiments exactly. 2016 Ram 2500, Cummins diesel, 4X4, Crew Cab...ProPride 3p hitch with 2017 Classic. Seems the near perfect combination for stress free towing. Disclaimer: I am not commenting on the advantages or disadvantages of one brand of truck over another. There's plenty of that discussion elsewhere on this forum. Commenting only on the 3/4 ton plus WD sway control hitch issue.

[Boog]

If I'm reading this right... my Chevrolet 2500HD requires weight distribution and sway control over 7500 trailer weight (top line before the chart).
I have a Hayes electronic sway controller and a Shocker hitch. I also have a Equilizer hitch. I'm going to try it both ways and see what I like best.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by avionstream

The flaw here is that your stock unloaded weighted truck is not optimum to handling. Your truck needs weight on the rear with some taken off the front to handle properly. Stop thinking of heavy duty trucks as cars. Trucks need weight. Payload, to handle properly, so tongue weight actually helps the trucks handling and safety. It will feel different but that doesn't make it unsafe. Sway control is still needed, I use it. Some WD will work if that us the only way you can get sway control. But huge amounts if weight transfer back to stock is not necessary and in my opinion is counter productive to good towing. Remember, large trucks, not half tons us what I am talking about here. I've towed with half tons and vans and would not do it without proper WD and sc. The trailers I am towing are 25 or 27 footers or in my case now 30 footers. Little trailers withe subpar tow vehicles allow a lot of options for WD or sc.

Yes - I agree - having weight on the back makes the truck (a 3/4 ton by the way, I think you referred to it as a half ton) ride great.

My truck manual says it wants 50% FALR and I've done that and it's very good. I've also gotten closer to 100% and that felt tighter to me but I can't quantify that - it's a seat of the pants assessment.

It's one of the reasons that I believe (no engineering background to support this) that all the complaints about the Andersen not being able to move more than a couple hundred pounds to the steer axle might be less of a concern when connected to a 3/4 or 1 ton truck - specifically because they may not need a ton of weight pushed to the front axles (like you might with a heavier trailer and lighter TV). I say this as a happy ProPride user - I could see a value in the simplicity and low cost of the Andersen probably even in my application (27FB and 3/4T Diesel).

There's probably a range where you go from NEEDING weight distribution to BETTER TO HAVE IT to MAY BE OK WITHOUT IT to DON'T NEED IT AT ALL - but there are too many X-factors to just suggest it's binary. Sway control is a must, in my opinion, as there's just too much out of your control to do without it.

That's my $0.02 - worth everything you paid for it [emoji3]

[xrvr]

In my posts I always reccommend sway control.

[xrvr]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

Yes - I agree - having weight on the back makes the truck (a 3/4 ton by the way, I think you referred to it as a half ton) ride great.

My truck manual says it wants 50% FALR and I've done that and it's very good. I've also gotten closer to 100% and that felt tighter to me but I can't quantify that - it's a seat of the pants assessment.

It's one of the reasons that I believe (no engineering background to support this) that all the complaints about the Andersen not being able to move more than a couple hundred pounds to the steer axle might be less of a concern when connected to a 3/4 or 1 ton truck - specifically because they may not need a ton of weight pushed to the front axles (like you might with a heavier trailer and lighter TV). I say this as a happy ProPride user - I could see a value in the simplicity and low cost of the Andersen probably even in my application (27FB and 3/4T Diesel).

There's probably a range where you go from NEEDING weight distribution to BETTER TO HAVE IT to MAY BE OK WITHOUT IT to DON'T NEED IT AT ALL - but there are too many X-factors to just suggest it's binary. Sway control is a must, in my opinion, as there's just too much out of your control to do without it.

That's my $0.02 - worth everything you paid for it [emoji3]

If I referred to it as a half ton I meant three quarter or larger.