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Old 01-24-2013, 07:23 PM   #15
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Thanks for all the good input,

The arguement was wether the weight distributing hitch allowed you to exceed the rating of the vehicle/hitch.

Of course the more I look in to these things the more bad information I find.

The Ford Flex Towing manual shows only one tongue weight rating, and it indicates you must use a weight distributing hitch.

My Tundra Manual provides no information on tongue weight at all!
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:38 PM   #16
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Vehicle manufacturers spend lots of money paying highly educated engineers to calculate these weight ratings, so it seems to me, at least, that they are important.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. However, the engineer's calculations are only the start of a process that gets more bungled as each department adds their expertise. The engineers design stuff to work properly. Then the beanies reject the design because it is too expensive and make other engineers change the design to make it cheaper. Then the lawyers have a peak at it and fiddle with the specifications to make sure there will be no liability even if the contraption gets sucked into outer space by aliens. And then the marketing guys put some kind of spin on the resulting mess in order to attract even the most Leary customer. That's where we come. The sales guy takes stock of us and proceeds to tell you what ever is necessary to ensure a commission deposit into his jeans. So now we have a one ton diesel dragging around a 16' Bambi or a Mini Cooper towing a 34' Classic. The specifications have become irrelevant, which is why no insurance company in the US has reneged on paying a claim due to a vehicle towing a trailer that has exceeded the manufacturer's "tow rating". So no wonder its hard to choose your set up. But it sure is nice having the freedom to choose. I chose to go to an expert for help and I am a very happy camper.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:18 PM   #17
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Back to basics, same with Jim Flower. Never exceed tire and wheel ratings. Or axle. The rest is open to how to distribute tongue weight. A WD hitch ought always be able to restore the front axle to it's unhitched weight value. Otherwise, it is not a weight distribution hitch.

As in all these endeavors, actual scaled measurements are what count. Not guesstimates, height measurements, etc. Numbers from a certified scale.

Being painstaking counts. Some experience in the "how to", keep good records, and one is good to go from then on with that particular rig.

.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:50 PM   #18
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One more restriction from owner's manual

I was just reading another owner's manual online (can you tell I'm trying to decide on a tow vehicle?), and found the following:
If using a weight
distributing hitch, make sure not to
exceed the RGAWR before applying
the weight distribution spring bars.
That's from page 9-65 of the 2012 GMC Yukon Denali / Denali XL owner's manual.

Most advice I have seen on this forum says to ensure the axle loads are within the limit with the WD tightened, rather than according to what the quote here says. One more thing to worry about, though we know lots of people do fine without worrying over this particular point.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquared View Post
I was just reading another owner's manual online (can you tell I'm trying to decide on a tow vehicle?), and found the following:
If using a weight
distributing hitch, make sure not to
exceed the RGAWR before applying
the weight distribution spring bars.
That's from page 9-65 of the 2012 GMC Yukon Denali / Denali XL owner's manual.

Most advice I have seen on this forum says to ensure the axle loads are within the limit with the WD tightened, rather than according to what the quote here says. One more thing to worry about, though we know lots of people do fine without worrying over this particular point.

hmmmm, that seems to me to be some sort of misprint....I'll look into that. I don't think it matters what the load is PRIOR to "springing up". It's the load as going down the road that matters.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:10 PM   #20
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SSquared, could they be covering the possibility of w.d. hitch failure, dropping that distributed weight back onto the rear axle while moving down the road?

doug k
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:06 AM   #21
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Dynamic vs. Static loads

I figure that the condition that will overstress the axle is the impact of going over a bump. Think about a speed bump: when the rear axle of the TV hits it and lifts the rear of the vehicle, the tension in the spring bars will relax (right?). At that point, you would have a moment of little/no weight distribution. So the rear axle is seeing the full load. Plus the dynamic forces are stressing it, too.

I have found and read probably a dozen threads here about Yukon Denalis and towing, but never found a report that shows scale a weight of the front and rear axles with WD off. So I don't know if a good-size AS will exceed the stated limit in actual use.

I'm looking for a tow vehicle for my future AS. I find the Yukon Denali appealing but I can see that it's cutting it pretty close. (a couple of people here have reported a measured tongue weight over 1100 pounds; the Yukon's limit is 1100 pounds).
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:05 AM   #22
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Question Gawr..

Just don't exceed it....either way.
It's right there on the driver door post.
If your that close...
Start over.

A 10.5K rejuvenated hitch don't help a hoot axle wise.

Bob
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:43 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquared View Post
I have found and read probably a dozen threads here about Yukon Denalis and towing, but never found a report that shows scale a weight of the front and rear axles with WD off. So I don't know if a good-size AS will exceed the stated limit in actual use.
In our case yep... but not by much. 1st ticket no WD.
We were loaded heavy for extended off grid stay.

Bob
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:16 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquared View Post
If using a weight
distributing hitch, make sure not to
exceed the RGAWR before applying
the weight distribution spring bars.
With the wording it could just mean don't let the weight off the jack before applying weight distribution spring bars if it would exceed the RGAWR.
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:03 PM   #25
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Question

Would static overload cause excessive ware?

POI...yes I do adjust the WD jacks on the Hensley before retracting the tongue jack, only because it's much easier/quicker to do un-loaded and the jack cylinders are marked for varying loads.

Bob
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Old 01-26-2013, 04:48 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Flower View Post
The specifications have become irrelevant, which is why no insurance company in the US has reneged on paying a claim due to a vehicle towing a trailer that has exceeded the manufacturer's "tow rating".
But if you are sued after an accident with your trailer and the plaintiff's lawyer finds out you had something overweight, you could be in trouble.

Here's a link to definitions about all these acronyms and terms:
Tow Vehicle Sizing

I'm not sure I agree with everything there though. For ex., the idea that you should not exceed 80% of the any limit. That's conventional wisdom and I've never seen proof of it. While it can be argued that the closer you get to a maximum rating of anything, the more risk you have, that is not necessarily so. Some of it may come from the belief that all the manufacturers lie about their truck ratings so they can sell more vehicles. That hasn't been proven either.

As I understand it, calculating tongue weight against payload or other weight maximums is not done by taking the total tongue weight of an unhitched trailer. The WD hitch transfers weight both ways—some to the trailer axle(s) and more to the tow vehicle axles. While there is a formula for this, most of us wouldn't understand it, so roughly it is 1/3 to the trailer axles and 2/3 to the truck axles. I see frequent posts on the Forum that don't take this into account when computing proper weights for the tow vehicle.

And last, tongue weight as stated by the manufacturers cannot be trusted. I have seen Airstream give different weights in different publications for the same model in the same year. And, filled propane tanks, heavier than OEM batteries, spare tire and other options can add a lot to tongue weight.

Gene
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:33 PM   #27
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You may be right Gene, but it is a pretty big " maybe" given the volume of fine print in the aftermath of the recommendations. Must be the same guys the manufacturers use in their final tow ratings.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:01 PM   #28
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Thanks for the CAT scale data

Robert Cross,

Thanks for posting the before and after CAT scale data.
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