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03-26-2019, 09:32 AM
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#41
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Rivet Master
2019 28' Flying Cloud
2014 22' FB Sport
Davie
, FL
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 904
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By the way, the manufacturer of my SUV does not allow weight distribution hitches.
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03-26-2019, 09:36 AM
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#42
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Site Team
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere
, South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by out of sight
By the way, the manufacturer of my SUV does not allow weight distribution hitches.
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Others will be curious as to full SUV make model year and engine details.
Me frankly I’m not curious.
__________________
S/OS #001 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Dexter 4 Piston Disc Brakes, Carslile Actuator, Equal-I-Zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook. BMV-712. DEMCO 21K Lb Cast Iron coupler
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03-26-2019, 09:50 AM
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#43
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Rivet Master
2019 28' Flying Cloud
2014 22' FB Sport
Davie
, FL
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCinSC2
Others will be curious as to full SUV make model year and engine details.
Me frankly I’m not curious.
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OK, I'll do it for the others.
2014 Mercedes ML 350
3.0 liter diesel
455 ft-lbs@1600 RPM
max tow rating 7200 lbs
max tongue weight 575 lbs weight carrying
max distance between hitch pin and ball 7.5"
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03-26-2019, 11:28 AM
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#44
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Rivet Master
2017 28' Flying Cloud
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Georgetown (winter)Thayne (summer)
, Texas & Wyoming
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,621
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And, again, I ask why would you consider towing an AS without a WDH for both weight distribution and "SWAY" control? Lots of youtube data on the value of WDH...not only "extra" safety for you while driving at highway speeds, but also for others on the road should something happen causing you to swerve...have you ever swerved at 65mph with an 8k trailer on your bumper hitch yet? I have and I will tell you the combination of my WDH and size of my TV saved me from a roll over... (I also wear my seatbelt, even though I have airbags!)
__________________
Empty Nesters; Gypsies on the road! 2017 28' Twin Flying Cloud
2017 F250 King Ranch, 4X4, 6.7L, Blue-Ox WDH
Summer-Star Valley Ranch RV Resort (Thayne, WY); Winter-Sun City (Georgetown,TX)
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03-26-2019, 11:32 AM
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#45
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Rivet Master
2017 28' Flying Cloud
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Georgetown (winter)Thayne (summer)
, Texas & Wyoming
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by out of sight
OK, I'll do it for the others.
2014 Mercedes ML 350
3.0 liter diesel
455 ft-lbs@1600 RPM
max tow rating 7200 lbs
max tongue weight 575 lbs weight carrying
max distance between hitch pin and ball 7.5"
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I also owned an ML350; max tow rating was fine, but Payload would not handle a 1100lb tongue weight on your 28'AS, 2 passengers (370lbs), dog (50lbs) camp gear (100)lbs. Total Payload 1620lbs....Curious; what is your payload on your short wheel base MBZ?
__________________
Empty Nesters; Gypsies on the road! 2017 28' Twin Flying Cloud
2017 F250 King Ranch, 4X4, 6.7L, Blue-Ox WDH
Summer-Star Valley Ranch RV Resort (Thayne, WY); Winter-Sun City (Georgetown,TX)
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03-26-2019, 11:36 AM
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#46
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Rivet Master
2019 28' Flying Cloud
2014 22' FB Sport
Davie
, FL
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsydad
And, again, I ask why would you consider towing an AS without a WDH for both weight distribution and "SWAY" control? Lots of youtube data on the value of WDH...not only "extra" safety for you while driving at highway speeds, but also for others on the road should something happen causing you to swerve...have you ever swerved at 65mph with an 8k trailer on your bumper hitch yet? I have and I will tell you the combination of my WDH and size of my TV saved me from a roll over... (I also wear my seatbelt, even though I have airbags!)
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I've swerved at 75 mph. Never had a problem.
You seem to be saying that you are safer with more weight on your front axle. Where are you getting that from?
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03-26-2019, 11:55 AM
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#47
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Rivet Master
2019 28' Flying Cloud
2014 22' FB Sport
Davie
, FL
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsydad
I also owned an ML350; max tow rating was fine, but Payload would not handle a 1100lb tongue weight on your 28'AS, 2 passengers (370lbs), dog (50lbs) camp gear (100)lbs. Total Payload 1620lbs....Curious; what is your payload on your short wheel base MBZ?
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I use a w/d hitch when I tow my 28 with the Mercedes (against the mfr's recommendation). The springs are too soft for all that load. I've towed my 4500 lb 22 without w/d and it handles superbly.
The MB has a max payload of 1014. My 28 has a 900 lb tongue wt. so I need the hitch for that setup. The car tows the 28 like a champ. I'd put it up against any 1/2 ton pickup. I looked at buying a 1/2 ton and found out that they weren't as capable a tow vehicle as the MB. An F-150 even requires a w/d hitch at 500 lbs tongue wt. I finally settled on a RAM 2500 which gives me all the payload I need without having to use a w/d hitch. Plus I have room for all the bicycles, tables, carpets, chairs, etc.
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03-26-2019, 12:02 PM
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#48
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Vancouver
, British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Profxd
Your point is irrelevant to a non towing situation. There is no dynamic instability to contend with only static.
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I don't agree. I regularly see heavy duty pickups spinning their rear wheels from a stop, especially on wet pavement, and these same trucks experience extended braking distances due to forward weight transfer from an already underloaded rear axle. Then there is oversteer resulting from a heavy front axle weight bias.
These are all dynamic instability issues.
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03-26-2019, 12:30 PM
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#49
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Vancouver
, British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by out of sight
By the way, the manufacturer of my SUV does not allow weight distribution hitches.
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Does not allow, or does not comment on? I reviewed the 2014 ML owner's manual (US version) and it does not mention weight distributing hitches anywhere. I had the manuals handy because Mercedes has an interesting approach to rear axle weight ratings (which they go into great detail on). They publish two rear axle weight ratings, one when towing and one when not towing, for their vehicles. Since the strength of the axle doesn't change, that implies that they are limiting the rear axle load based on dynamic loads (since towing in Europe brings into play a lower speed limit).
A German SUV is designed in Germany, so manufacturer opinions will not generally address WD equipment. Also, manufacturer opinions refer to the original equipment hitch. If the MB hitch is not designed for WD loads, you should not use it with WD without first evaluating its ability to handle those loads.
Fortunately, there are aftermarket hitch options available that do not limit you to the factory hitch.
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03-26-2019, 12:45 PM
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#50
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Rivet Master
2019 28' Flying Cloud
2014 22' FB Sport
Davie
, FL
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl
Does not allow, or does not comment on? I reviewed the 2014 ML owner's manual (US version) and it does not mention weight distributing hitches anywhere. I had the manuals handy because Mercedes has an interesting approach to rear axle weight ratings (which they go into great detail on). They publish two rear axle weight ratings, one when towing and one when not towing, for their vehicles. Since the strength of the axle doesn't change, that implies that they are limiting the rear axle load based on dynamic loads (since towing in Europe brings into play a lower speed limit).
A German SUV is designed in Germany, so manufacturer opinions will not generally address WD equipment. Also, manufacturer opinions refer to the original equipment hitch. If the MB hitch is not designed for WD loads, you should not use it with WD without first evaluating its ability to handle those loads.
Fortunately, there are aftermarket hitch options available that do not limit you to the factory hitch.
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That's correct. They don't address w/d hitches. So the owner has to take the responsibility. They do limit the hitch pin to ball distances to 7.5" which effectively says you can't use a w/d hitch.
I am thoroughly confident in the hitch's ability to handle much larger loads than indicated. I do check the welds from time to time. So far so good after 35k tow miles.
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03-26-2019, 07:05 PM
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#51
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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Oos...
So you have a great powerful TV that COULD tow your Airstream. IF, it was DESIGNED to tow your AS, but you tow your Airstream anyway because this is a free Country.
50/50...got it.👍
Bob
🇺🇸
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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03-26-2019, 07:21 PM
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#52
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Rivet Master
2022 25' Flying Cloud
NCR
, Ontario
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,085
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everyone has an opinion
when it comes to safety and my family, i do not cheap out
I would not risk it or consider towing an AS without both weight distribution and SWAY control
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03-26-2019, 09:17 PM
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#53
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Rivet Master
2007 22' International CCD
Corona
, California
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,180
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Ditto. Family safety is the bottom line around Casa de Krum as well...
__________________
Rich, KE4GNK/AE, Overkill Engineering Dept.
'The Silver HamShack' ('07 International 22FB CCD 75th Anniversary)
Multiple Yaesu Ham Radios inside and many antennae sprouting from roof, ProPride hitch, Prodigy P2 controller.
2012 shortbed CrewMax 4x4 Toyota Tacoma TV with more antennae on it.
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03-27-2019, 09:40 AM
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#54
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Rivet Master
2017 28' Flying Cloud
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Georgetown (winter)Thayne (summer)
, Texas & Wyoming
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by out of sight
I use a w/d hitch when I tow my 28 with the Mercedes (against the mfr's recommendation). The springs are too soft for all that load. I've towed my 4500 lb 22 without w/d and it handles superbly.
The MB has a max payload of 1014. My 28 has a 900 lb tongue wt. so I need the hitch for that setup. The car tows the 28 like a champ. I'd put it up against any 1/2 ton pickup. I looked at buying a 1/2 ton and found out that they weren't as capable a tow vehicle as the MB. An F-150 even requires a w/d hitch at 500 lbs tongue wt. I finally settled on a RAM 2500 which gives me all the payload I need without having to use a w/d hitch. Plus I have room for all the bicycles, tables, carpets, chairs, etc.
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The WDH especially for that size AS is needed, for sure. Glad you have a larger TV for your 28'; to be clear, your 28' tongue weight is likely over 1000lbs; mine was 1100 when I picked it up new and weighed it at CAT scales. Dealer tried to argue it was 900lbs per the "listed weight". Read this thread long enough and you learn the "printed" weights on just about everything are not accurate...(AS, TV's, etc.) Best to weigh your rig and know. Note my scale weights below including tongue at 1100lbs...that's without full water, btw.. .
There are several folks on the Forum who will argue till their blue in the face about their SUV's being the "best handling; best towing" TV out there! There are even some folks who sware an old sedan is the best...and of course, their are those who always "know" better then most of experienced folks here..gets frustrating to see the arguments against being safe and smart on this topic.
__________________
Empty Nesters; Gypsies on the road! 2017 28' Twin Flying Cloud
2017 F250 King Ranch, 4X4, 6.7L, Blue-Ox WDH
Summer-Star Valley Ranch RV Resort (Thayne, WY); Winter-Sun City (Georgetown,TX)
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03-27-2019, 11:48 AM
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#55
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Rivet Master
2019 28' Flying Cloud
2014 22' FB Sport
Davie
, FL
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsydad
The WDH especially for that size AS is needed, for sure. Glad you have a larger TV for your 28'; to be clear, your 28' tongue weight is likely over 1000lbs; mine was 1100 when I picked it up new and weighed it at CAT scales. Dealer tried to argue it was 900lbs per the "listed weight". Read this thread long enough and you learn the "printed" weights on just about everything are not accurate...(AS, TV's, etc.) Best to weigh your rig and know. Note my scale weights below including tongue at 1100lbs...that's without full water, btw.. .
There are several folks on the Forum who will argue till their blue in the face about their SUV's being the "best handling; best towing" TV out there! There are even some folks who sware an old sedan is the best...and of course, their are those who always "know" better then most of experienced folks here..gets frustrating to see the arguments against being safe and smart on this topic.
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Airstream indicated a change in tongue weight in the last year that showed the 28 tongue weight was lowered about 100 lbs to 899 lbs per the brochure. Of course that's the stripped down weight without any options. I weighed the tongue and I'm in not near 1100 lbs. I lost my data but I'll weigh it again one day.
When weighing a dual axle trailer tongue it's important to have the trailer perfectly level, If the front is down the load pivots around the front axle. If the front is up the load pivots around the rear axle. Tire pressures could also have an effect. Single axle trailers don't have this problem (thought hey have other problems!).
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03-28-2019, 11:37 AM
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#56
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Rivet Master
2017 28' Flying Cloud
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Georgetown (winter)Thayne (summer)
, Texas & Wyoming
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by out of sight
Airstream indicated a change in tongue weight in the last year that showed the 28 tongue weight was lowered about 100 lbs to 899 lbs per the brochure. Of course that's the stripped down weight without any options. I weighed the tongue and I'm in not near 1100 lbs. I lost my data but I'll weigh it again one day.
When weighing a dual axle trailer tongue it's important to have the trailer perfectly level, If the front is down the load pivots around the front axle. If the front is up the load pivots around the rear axle. Tire pressures could also have an effect. Single axle trailers don't have this problem (thought hey have other problems!).
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Forgot about the tongue weight reduction in the 28'; actually started with the 2018 model. Angle is not so much an issue since who lowers their front power jack beyond level when weighing anyway, and tire pressure has no affect on weighing a static trailer if it's on the scale? I know I just want to get the entire rig on the scales and off since it typically requires a couple of maneuvers with and without the trailer hooked up.
__________________
Empty Nesters; Gypsies on the road! 2017 28' Twin Flying Cloud
2017 F250 King Ranch, 4X4, 6.7L, Blue-Ox WDH
Summer-Star Valley Ranch RV Resort (Thayne, WY); Winter-Sun City (Georgetown,TX)
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03-31-2019, 03:43 PM
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#57
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Regular Guy
1978 31' Sovereign
Hot Springs
, Arkansas
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 603
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Load out your trailer CORRECTLY. Drive like you are going on a vacation, not in a combat zone. Stay away from areas where you think you would REALLY need WD. If your headlights are pointed at the moon, something is wrong. At load out if your lights are aiming high, they can be adjusted down to compensate. If WD makes you feel better, use it. I will be happy for you.
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03-31-2019, 07:48 PM
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#58
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3 Rivet Member
2016 25' Flying Cloud
Glendale
, California
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 152
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Weight distribution and sway control hitch not allowed
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTRA15
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That’s real pretty, but we actually use that front compartment for levelers, our hose and electric cable. Would be really unhandy to move the gennie every time we rolled into camp.
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03-31-2019, 07:55 PM
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#59
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3 Rivet Member
2016 25' Flying Cloud
Glendale
, California
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteck
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omg
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03-31-2019, 08:21 PM
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#60
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyCorpsman
Load out your trailer CORRECTLY. Drive like you are going on a vacation, not in a combat zone. Stay away from areas where you think you would REALLY need WD. If your headlights are pointed at the moon, something is wrong. At load out if your lights are aiming high, they can be adjusted down to compensate. If WD makes you feel better, use it. I will be happy for you.
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I'll wager your choice in your area is not to use it. 😂
Please tell us...exactly what areas would need it, Canada?🤔
Bob
🇺🇸
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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