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Old 09-15-2012, 08:34 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by mstephens View Post
The Anderson WD system is limited by a 2,000# chain rating which provides a limit on how much weight can be transferred with certain TV/TT combinations.
You've posted this statement a couple of times, but I don't remember anyone yet breaking a chain on an Andersen hitch. Even HowieE who tows a big trailer, I believe it may be a 34'?, has not had an issue with the chains, and he reports he easily returns the front end height of his tow vehicle to the unhitched height.

So, just wondering here how you come up with the idea the chains are going to break? Is it just thru your calculations?
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Old 09-15-2012, 09:55 AM   #44
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You've posted this statement a couple of times, but I don't remember anyone yet breaking a chain on an Andersen hitch. Even HowieE who tows a big trailer, I believe it may be a 34'?, has not had an issue with the chains, and he reports he easily returns the front end height of his tow vehicle to the unhitched height.

So, just wondering here how you come up with the idea the chains are going to break? Is it just thru your calculations?
Hi,
To answer your question, I'd suggest this basic inquiry:
Why are chains rated for the loads they can carry?
Why are tires rated for the loads they can carry?
Why are axles rated for the loads they can carry?
Why are receivers rated for the loads they can carry?
Why are jacks rated for the loads they can lift?

I am pretty sure that considering those questions for a few minutes you will be able to answer your question your self.

You can probably drive a long ways with 2500# on a 2000# tire, right? You can likewise probably drive a long ways with 5000# on a 4000# axle too, right? Ratings for loads do not mean that it will break the moment you exceed the load. And yet ratings do have a specific meaning, don't they?

As I have said a few times recently, "everyone is different about what they think is appropriate action." Personally, I would not put 80# of air in my 50# rated tires, and I would not put 6,000# on my 5000# rated axles. And likewise I wouldn't put 2,500# on a 2,000 pound chain. But that's just me. I am one guy with one opinion about the meaning of ratings.

I am always and forever reminded of the most common saing among those who don't use seat belts: "I've been driving 40 years without one and look! I've never been injured."
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Old 09-15-2012, 10:48 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by mstephens View Post
Findings and Facts:
  1. The ProPride is really more costly
  2. The Anderson WD system is limited by a 2,000# chain rating which provides a limit on how much weight can be transferred with certain TV/TT combinations. For example, mine. I need 300 - 400 pounds of WD, and with my rig that would put far more than 2000# of strain on the 2000# rated chains. I call that a "no function".
  3. The ProPride doesn't have this functional limitation.
Conclusion: The costlier hitch does a "better job" at WD than that less costly hitch.
I have a couple of questions for you regarding your item #2 above:

1. How did you come to the conclusion that 300-400 pounds of WD would put more than 2000 lbs of strain on the chains?

2. Are you a mechanical engineer?

3. Do you think that Anderson would willingly sell a product that is rated below what it necessary to safely do the job?

4. I was going to ask if this was your opinion but I noticed that you listed it as a fact so you can scratch this question.

Thanks. I am looking forward to more enlightenment on this subject as I am always open to a new and better hitch (within my limited cost window of course).
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Old 09-15-2012, 10:48 AM   #46
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Yes but your calculations could still be off, and they are still your opinions using your numbers. Jim
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Old 09-15-2012, 11:23 AM   #47
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Chains

All chains have ratings, but how much does the rating decrease, when the chain wears?

Probably no answer other than, "YES" the rating deceases.

Many Eaz-lift owners have had the chains snap due to weaking caused by wear.

Reese suffers the same issue, but only on the bars that have the chains connected to them. Using their "dual cam" sway control, totally eliminates that issue.

I suppose a good question would be, "at what point should a worn chain be replaced ?"

We would all agree, that a worn chain is less serviceable, BUT at what point should it be replaced ?

Andy
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Old 09-15-2012, 11:52 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by aftermath View Post
I have a couple of questions for you regarding your item #2 above:

1. How did you come to the conclusion that 300-400 pounds of WD would put more than 2000 lbs of strain on the chains?

2. Are you a mechanical engineer?

3. Do you think that Anderson would willingly sell a product that is rated below what it necessary to safely do the job?

4. I was going to ask if this was your opinion but I noticed that you listed it as a fact so you can scratch this question.

Thanks. I am looking forward to more enlightenment on this subject as I am always open to a new and better hitch (within my limited cost window of course).
Hi,
Thanks for asking so many questions. There's a very long thread on the Anderson hitch which covers your questions in great detail. There's no sense in retyping all that information here when you can read it in original form there. It specifically answers your questions.

I have to add this comment, which isn't covered in that thread: Manufacturer's of hitches don't provide me with any information whatsoever about their engineering or business decisions. So it isn't even reasonable or sensible to ask me questions like #3. I would have no conceivable way to answer that question for you.
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Old 09-15-2012, 11:57 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
All chains have ratings, but how much does the rating decrease, when the chain wears?

Probably no answer other than, "YES" the rating deceases.

Many Eaz-lift owners have had the chains snap due to weaking caused by wear.

Reese suffers the same issue, but only on the bars that have the chains connected to them. Using their "dual cam" sway control, totally eliminates that issue.

I suppose a good question would be, "at what point should a worn chain be replaced ?"

We would all agree, that a worn chain is less serviceable, BUT at what point should it be replaced ?

Andy
Good question. There are chain wear tables which show for a given wear how much to de-rate the chain. In my opinion, the de-rating occurs very quickly with just a little wear. It's not hard at all to lose half the rating. Chains are not really consumables like tires. They ought not be wearing grooves in them if they are properly used. Rust and corrosion are the more typical reasons to replace chains, not wear grooves.

Everyone acts differently in accordance with their own standards - and so do I. If I had a chain with wear grooves in it that was in a key place on my rig, I would replace it. Chain is cheap.
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Old 09-15-2012, 01:41 PM   #50
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Anyone interested in the subject of chain wear and replacement will find the NACM specifications useful. Here is a link to the PDF for these specifications. If you look at Table XIV, you can find your chain, and see what wear is allowed by measuring the minimum thickness at the wear point.

Link: http://www.nacm.info/Downloads/NACM_Welded.pdf
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:19 PM   #51
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Well early on in this Forum aftermath said “Big Can ‘O Worms” you couldn’t have been more right. I’d like to thank everyone for their response. There where hitch names put out there I hadn’t even heard of. I’m going to look around as I go to camp sites and see what folks are using. But not to roughly any feathers I’m kind of leaning in the direction of the Andersen. It looks easy and No grease. Again thanks everyone for your help. Hope to meet some of you down the road. I did learn a good lesson here be careful of the Can your about to open. Speaking of which anyone have a suggestion for the best polish to use on our Airstream? :-)
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:56 PM   #52
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Speaking of which anyone have a suggestion for the best polish to use on our Airstream? :-)
Your Airstream has a clearcoat finish, and so you want to use any automotive wax that is recommended for clearcoated automotive finishes. I like Mcguire's Tech Wax. It's a liquid, easy to use, and works good. You don't want to use anything too abrasive, like "cleaner" waxes.
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:38 PM   #53
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Hitches are where you get what you pay for. If one wants the best performance, then the VPP (virtual pivot point) hitches are supreme, such as Pro Pride and Hensley. The gap separating them from the second tier is a gulf when it comes to how well they do the job of sway reduction. The Reese Dual Cam is the best of this second bunch.

No matter the hitch, the hitch rigging needs to be adjusted properly using weight scale values. Lacking that is lacking critical quantification.

"Reasonable cost" is missing something when one is concerned with keeping the rig on the road. A new TV and a brand-new TT are too expensive to cheap out on an integral piece of hardware. Even used or ancient . . proper set up means best performance and the easiest time behind the wheel.

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Old 10-01-2012, 01:07 PM   #54
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1. How did you come to the conclusion that 300-400 pounds of WD would put more than 2000 lbs of strain on the chains?
This thread, which I started seven years ago, and particularly Equation #8, may be of interest to anyone wishing to make an approximation:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...sis-19236.html

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Old 10-05-2012, 11:26 AM   #55
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Hitches are where you get what you pay for. If one wants the best performance, then the VPP (virtual pivot point) hitches are supreme, such as Pro Pride and Hensley. The gap separating them from the second tier is a gulf when it comes to how well they do the job of sway reduction. The Reese Dual Cam is the best of this second bunch.
That's one of many methods of analysis one could choose. Another method is to consider the specific requirement and then find the closest match. Another method is to consider the maximum budget, and then find the best performance within that budget. Another method is the 90% Rule. It shouldn't be assumed by someone needing a hitch that your suggested method is either the best one, or the right one.

The method one chooses should be related to their own circumstances and not just some generic choice to "spend the most to get the most." The method you have advocated here is well suited to people of unlimited means. It essentially removes cost as a variable in the analysis. I know lots of people, who need to solve lots of different kinds of questions, and I rarely see them toss cost out the window in their problem solving.

An AS trailer connected to a well chosen TV doesn't have a lot of sway - really. And some combinations really have none to speak of. It's simplistic in the extreme to imagine that everyone with an AS trailer has an extreme sway problem needing a very expensive hitch. Would that kind of analysis be useful to a person on a budget? I don't think so. Should every person buy more than they need? I don't think so.

So, I certainly agree with your that your stated method is ONE way to look at the problem, but it is not the only way.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:19 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstephens View Post

An AS trailer connected to a well chosen TV doesn't have a lot of sway - really. And some combinations really have none to speak of. It's simplistic in the extreme to imagine that everyone with an AS trailer has an extreme sway problem needing a very expensive hitch. Would that kind of analysis be useful to a person on a budget? I don't think so. Should every person buy more than they need? I don't think so.

I always find this logic interesting.

Why is it that people buy more camping shelter than they need? Such as an Airstream. Some might say a very expensive camping shelter when compared to a tent. Yet, in the very next thought people will say a person shouldn't buy more than they need in a hitch. Interesting, huh?

The different value systems in each of us certainly are a wonder that none of us will ever be able to figure out.

And, please don't read this as passing judgment on one thought or the other. I'm just commenting on it being interesting in the fact that the same criteria isn't used for different products that we choose to purchase with our money.


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