Weight Concerns - Reese Dual Cam Set up

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by StevenG

I'm back from the CAT truck scales... weight of the truck alone (including me in it) is: Steer axle, 3120; drive axle 2440, gross weight 5560.
When the AS was attached (1987 Excella, 32') Steer axle, 3080; drive axle, 3320; trailer axle, 6580.
The tongue weight of the trailer is 1140.

Several have commented on the truck tires... I looked, and could find no letter grades, except "M+S" in front of the tire size designation. It does give tread as A and temperature as B. But where do I look to find the D or E that several of you mention?
Thanks,
Steven

Steve.

You solved the mystery.

You should be adding about 300 to 400 pounds to the front axle when the trailer is hooked up.

Removing "any" weight from the front axle when the rig is ready to go, is a huge NO NO.

The ball mount should have a backwards tilt to it of about 10 degrees or a little more.

Then you will have to use less links "under stress," to transfer the weight.

Once you transfer that weight, your rig will handle correctly.

Also, please get those tire pressures up where they should be.

Then do your road test.

Andy

[Mikethefixit]

Steven
Your weights didn't look that bad to me, you are not going to get them exactly perfect. I got tired just reading about the trips to the CAT SCALE. I cant find my weight slips . But if I remember correctly they were like yours.
With about 300 lbs difference between the steering and drive. I think Andy hit the problem .TIRE PRESSURE. Of course I have a 1 ton ,I run about 80 lbs on a 16" tire. I use 550 lbs bars and 6 links under tension.We get a very smooth ride. We even have left things on the table and countertop.OPPS.and they were still there after 250 miles or so. I also have to mention that we have new axles, it made a Hugh difference in the ride.
I'm convinced you will get to where you want to be. You are doing it correctly, Always remember "THE TAIL IS IN THE SCALE" No guess work there.
Good luck too YOU .HANG IN THERE.
Roger

[StevenG]

Greetings all!
I continue to post here, because I figure others might be learning from my experience. As I read the forum, I do learn from others experiences, and appreciate advice shared. Now, back to my situation.

I have raised tire pressure to 42 lbs. I just can't bring myself to go to the maximum of 44 lbs, because of pressure gain as the tires heat up... had a blowout once, don't want to experience that again.
So, tire pressure 42 lbs all the way around.
Hitch ball, tilted to the rear the maximum it would tilt, which was about 10 degrees measured with a protractor.
Bars - remember, this is a Reese Dual Cam setup, with 750 pound round bars.
Now I'll try to do a chart for the axle weights:

Axles truck alone 4 links 5 links 6 links

steering 3120 3360 3220 3080
drive 2440 2940 3120 3300
trailer axle xxx 6540 6480 6420

Driving...the truck handled best with 5 or 4 links used... but even then, doors and drawers in the trailer popped open. I drove 1.5 mile on local 2 lane or narrower streets, 6 miles on 4 lane divided highway. Top speed was 63 on the highway... unfortunately no semi's passed me, but there didn't seem to be any handling or sway problems. Quite a change from my 55 mph before these adjustments.

Level - with the hitch adjusted correctly, 5 and 6 links the trailer was a little off level low at the tongue. With 4 links, the trailer was a very liittle off level high at the tongue. That is reflected in the change of the axle weight on the trailer. I put a spirit level on the A frame of the tongue, near the AS body. Visually from the side, simply eye-balling it, truck and trailer look level best at 4 links.

I am satisfied with the way the rig handles now, exept I still don't like the drawers and doors popping open. I put some plastic measuring cups on the table and secured everything when I left my driveway. They were on the floor and doors/drawers open when I got to the scales. Did the same on the return trip, with the same results.
That setup sure does make a lot of noise however. Especially turning corners.

So, now what?
Thank

[StevenG]

sorry about that chart...I kept putting spaces in it to make it work, but the program removed the spaces... with effort you should be able to figure it out.
Thanks!
Steven

[LI Pets]

Ok the 4 links is good for weight but not as good as 5, if you can and I know you can get the same weights with 5 your all good.

You do this by tilting the ball.

The noise you hear is normal, its the cams.

Tip you CAN NOT oil them, but you can put a very lite coat of Vaseline on them and they will get quite.

Just remember to clean and renew the Vaseline often.


Also you have a better chance for a problem towing under inflated than at the 44, yes the 2 pounds makes a difference.

[Mexray]

I agree with Andy here...sure correct tire pressures are important, but the main thing is getting that 300-400 pounds transfered to the front axle...

Your original set-up actually made your front axle lighter, causing the 'squirrelly' ride!

I think you'll have to bite the bullet and get the heavier bars...you've got a lot of tongue weight to deal with, and your lighter bars just can't transfer enough weight to the front axle for your set-up...I think 'more' bar than you need is far better than not enough, as you can 'dial back' the heavier bars to some degree to get the desired weight transfer.

[AirsDream]

Originally Posted by StevenG

I have raised tire pressure to 42 lbs. I just can't bring myself to go to the maximum of 44 lbs, because of pressure gain as the tires heat up... had a blowout once, don't want to experience that again.

Blowouts almost always come from TOO LOW tire pressure. Low pressure has two bad effects. First, it results in excessive sidewall flex and that flexing causes the tire to heat up (ever broken a coat hanger in half by bending it back and forth and feel it heat up?) and second, provides fewer internal air molecules to carry the heat away from the hotter areas of the tire and to cooler areas and to the rim, where it can dissipate. And the manufacturers know that tires always heat up some and increase pressures in doing so ... that's why pressures are supposed to be measured with cold tires.

So, if your tires are in good condition, don't hesitate to go to max pressure to prevent blowouts.

Now, ride certainly can suffer a bit if you're at max inflation, and harder riding tow vehicles are not fun and can be hard on the trailer, but that's another story.

Ryanh

[Mikethefixit]

At one of those settings you achieved a ride that felt good to you. Then you tell us you still have the drawers popping open.
Steven, I have been thur this, with the fridge comming open and drawers opening and toilet paper and paper towels unrolling when in transit and even sheared the rivets out of the frame that held the full length mirror on the back of the sliding bathroom door. This is not good.
I know you don't want to go there.But you need to take a look at those axles. That's a rubber rod torsion. That's an '87 trailer,22 yrs old,if it sat for any length of time before you became the owner,There is a distincit possiblity that the rubber rods have solidified and your are riding on NO flex(spring) at all. All of the afore mented things will happen when that happens.
Post a picture of the trailer hooked up, with a side view of the axles(tires) wheelwell area. There are many of us who have experienced what is happening to you and can tell just from a picture how the trailer is riding. Bad axles can affect weight transfer and the ride problems you are experiencing.
I KNOW YOU DONT WANT TO GO THERE but its a must for the well being of your trailer and to save you from more damage.
Good LUCK to You

[slowmover]

Plus Andy's site at Inland RV had an article on how to check axles.

The other item not mentioned (and helped me tremendously on interior evidence of rough ride) was balancing new tires on a HUNTER GSP-9700 Roadforce; plus CENTRAMATIC Wheel Balancers on my solid axle Silver Streak trailer.

On the TV I changed over to BILSTEIN shocks. I need, still, to add an aftermarket rear anti-roll bar.

The final piece of the equation on my truck is replacing the factory receiver with a TORKLIFT heavy-duty piece as I believe that the wimpy factory piece did not resist "twist" from my similar size/weight trailer as yours.

This is the form I use to check out numbers:

Get all the numbers, and try NickCrowhursts Calculator

Crowhurst Calc: Excel spreadsheet


1. TT Length, Hitch Ball Center to TT Rear Bumper:

2. TT Tongue Weight:

3. TT Hitch Center to Rear Axle Center:

4. TV wheelbase:

5. TV Rear Spring Capacity:

6. TV Rear Overhang (axle center to hitch center):

7. Length of bars:


A. TV Steer Axle, Solo:
[1] TV Steer Axle, Loaded:

B. TV Drive Axle, Solo:
[1] TV Steer Axle, Loaded:

C. TV Weight Bias, FF/RR, Solo:
[1] Loaded:

D. TV Weight, Solo, Gross:

E. TV Weight, Loaded, Gross:


F. TT, Tongue Weight:

G. TT, Axle Weight (all axles):

H. TT, Axle Weight (front):

I. TT, Axle Weight (rear):

J. [TT, Axle Weight (center):]


I. TV, FF, height, solo:

II. TV, FF, height, loaded:

III. TV, RR, height, solo:

IV. TV, RR, height, loaded:

V. TT, height (fenderwell), solo:

VI. TT, height (fenderwell), loaded:

The two dozen numbers can be useful for further tuning or understanding. On my truck I was ready to try modifying the rear suspension by removing the huge single overload spring, one spacer; and add TIMBREN overload replacements in a custom height. Not that you should. The point is, IMO, to keep searching out solutions as you are doing.


Keep checking. Keep posting.