Weighed the Rig

[boondockdad]

Weighed the new rig last night….

2005 ‘Bourbon 4X4 2500
2008 30’ Classic S/O

Full tank of gasoline
Full fresh water tank
Full LP (30#) tanks

No cargo in either

Equalizer 1200/12000# hitch

Steer axle: 3160 (20%)
Drive alxe:5000 (32%)
Trailer axle: 7480 (48%)
Gross: 15640

From this… I’m planning on really cranking up on the spring arms… the ‘L’ brackets are set about mid-way…
Concerned about approaching the 5500# max rear axle rating…

Gonna load it for a weekend trip… re-weigh…

Wonder if I should leave the current setup, so I can get a baseline?

[CanoeStream]

Hi finalcutjoe -- You didn't say what your WD setup was. I think you'd also get some informed comments if you post the pound rating of your current WD bars. A discussion of some of the points is at http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...5-a-33454.html.

Here's a good aid to check how well your WD is working. Write down the height to the top of all four wheel enclosures on your tow vehicle (or some easy to measure point on the body near each wheel). Now hitch up, engage the WD gear the way you have been and remeasure to the same points. All four should decrease by close to the same amount. If you're down by the rear axle something does have to be reworked. Please post more info and we'll see who can offer advice.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by finalcutjoe

Weighed the new rig last night….

2005 ‘Bourbon 4X4 2500
2008 30’ Classic S/O

Full tank of gasoline
Full fresh water tank
Full LP (30#) tanks

No cargo in either

Equalizer 1200/12000# hitch

Steer axle: 3160 (20%)
Drive alxe:5000 (32%)
Trailer axle: 7480 (48%)
Gross: 15640

From this… I’m planning on really cranking up on the spring arms… the ‘L’ brackets are set about mid-way…
Concerned about approaching the 5500# max rear axle rating…

Gonna load it for a weekend trip… re-weigh…

Wonder if I should leave the current setup, so I can get a baseline?

Your tow vehicle weighs 8160.

You must not have more than 10 percent difference between the rear and front axles, in your case 816 pounds.

2160 pound difference will get you in trouble very quickly.

Your hitch rating should be dropped to no more than 750 pounds. If you stay with what you have, you will beat the trailer to death, and cause all kinds of problems to the trailer. This has been discussed many times before on this Forums.

Also you should use a hitch like Reese's full sway control, that has variable torsion, and sway control.

In spite of my 41 plus years with the Airstream products, Equalizer hitches, to me, are cheap and useless as a "total performance" load equalizing hitch. It does not have a brain that knows when your in a turn or not. The Reese products, do.

Your rigging "positively" fits in the category of "an accident" looking for a place to happen, not by a little, but big time. Your rig, by your weights, is more than 2 1/2 times out of safe parameters.

That statement is based on examining and documenting over 1000 cases of "loss of control" accidents involving Airstream products, for the old insurance division of Airstream that was called "Caravanner Insurance Company."

Adjusting the torsion arms to move more weight forward, is what you should do. However, because of the hitch rating you have, you will find that the front of the trailer and rear end of your tow vehicle, will no longer be level, but instead will be high. Not a good thing.

Andy

[boondockdad]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Your tow vehicle weighs 8160.

You must not have more than 10 percent difference between the rear and front axles, in your case 816 pounds.

2160 pound difference will get you in trouble very quickly.

Your hitch rating should be dropped to no more than 750 pounds. If you stay with what you have, you will beat the trailer to death,and cause all kinds of problems to the trailer. This has been discussed many times before on this Forums.

Also you should use a hitch like Reese's full sway control, that has variable torsion, and sway control.

In spite of my 41 plus years with the Airstream products, Equalizer hitches, to me, are cheap and useless as a "total performance" load equalizing hitch. It does not have a brain that knows when your in a turn or not. The Reese products, do.

Your rigging "positively" fits in the category of "an accident" looking for a place to happen, not by a little, but big time. Your rig, by your weights, is more than 2 1/2 times out of safe parameters.

That statement is based on examining and documenting over 1000 cases of "loss of control" accidents involving Airstream products, for the old insurance division of Airstream that was called "Caravanner Insurance Company."

Adjusting the torsion arms to move more weight forward, is what you should do. However, because of the hitch rating you have, you will find that the front of the trailer and rear end of your tow vehicle, will no longer be level, but instead will be high. Not a good thing.

Andy

so much for keeping a baseline... yikes!

as far as over-rating the hitch, and beating up the coach... maybe some centramatics will do the trick

... another reason to go to reese i suppose?....

i'm not worried about getting a high TV rear end, and high trailer front end when reefing up the spring bars... i think i can adjust the ball angle (or ball height if necessary) to compensate for the extra load leveling...

thanks for your input!

[boondockdad]

not knowing the tongue weight or actual curb weight of the burb.... working with the scaled 8160lb TV (assumed 5796lb curb weight) essentially, I need to transfer about 1000lbs to the steer axle, and the remaining 1400lbs over the drive...

seems reasonable to me?

[azflycaster]

You are going to find that as you increase the tension on the WD arms, some of the weight will be transfered back to the trailer as well. Spend some time on the scales and make your adjustment and weigh the setup again. When you get the weight evenly distributed on your TV it should be level.

[walter1]

Public scales

I have a simple question:
Where do you find a public scale these days (in California) that will allow you to weigh the tow vehicle and Airstream, then disconnect and weigh just one or the other?

[azflycaster]

Originally Posted by walter1

Public scales

I have a simple question:
Where do you find a public scale these days (in California) that will allow you to weigh the tow vehicle and Airstream, then disconnect and weigh just one or the other?

Flying J Truck stops are a good place for scales.
Check with the manager tell him what you plan to do and have him suggest a time. I think it costs around $10 for the first weight and additional ones are a buck or two.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by finalcutjoe

so much for keeping a baseline... yikes!

as far as over-rating the hitch, and beating up the coach... maybe some centramatics will do the trick

... another reason to go to reese i suppose?....

i'm not worried about getting a high TV rear end, and high trailer front end when reefing up the spring bars... i think i can adjust the ball angle (or ball height if necessary) to compensate for the extra load leveling...

thanks for your input!

Adjusting the ball angle, in your case, will accomplish nothing more than a waste of your time.

Andy

[boondockdad]

OK... I cranked the "L" brackets from their half-way location, to the second hole from maximum...

full gas tank, full LP's, full fresh water and loaded with cargo for weekend jaunt...

got a re-weigh

i have to say, i was disappointed:
3640 steer axle
5000 drive axle
7980 trailer axle
16620 gross

i would have expected much more transfer to the steer...

basically, there's a 480lb increase in the TV... but there were 6 more passengers, a 12ton bottle jack, pair of 8 ton jack stands, tool box, and a few other campsite accessories

so i have to assume, increasing the leverage on the spring bars did just about nothing.

[SteveH]

It would be interesting, and I believe more meaningful, if you had the axle weights of the tow vehicle before the trailer is hooked up so you would know for sure how much you are loading each axle.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by finalcutjoe

OK... I cranked the "L" brackets from their half-way location, to the second hole from maximum...

full gas tank, full LP's, full fresh water and loaded with cargo for weekend jaunt...

got a re-weigh

i have to say, i was disappointed:
3640 steer axle
5000 drive axle
7980 trailer axle
16620 gross

i would have expected much more transfer to the steer...

basically, there's a 480lb increase in the TV... but there were 6 more passengers, a 12ton bottle jack, pair of 8 ton jack stands, tool box, and a few other campsite accessories

so i have to assume, increasing the leverage on the spring bars did just about nothing.

Adjusting the torsion bars, "is" how you move weight.

But again, when you have a "super heavy duty" tow vehicle, you make that task very difficult, if not impossible.

To help you understand, adjust the bars as high as you can, even if the front of the trailer is high and the rear of the tow vehicle is high. Then get some new weights.

You should see a change for the better. The the new problem becomes the hitch rating, and, the overload springs. Reducing the amount of overload springs will help tremendously.

Reducing the rating of the bars, will move weight, without having the rigidity.

But the first major step, is to do something about your tow vehicle.

Andy

[uwe]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Your tow vehicle weighs 8160.

Not, You're forgetting the tongue weight of the trailer. It is part of the rear axle weight. Might be over 800lbs in the case of a 30ft trailer. Probably more.

[uwe]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

But again, when you have a "super heavy duty" tow vehicle, you make that task very difficult, if not impossible.
Reducing the amount of overload springs will help tremendously.

A 2005 Suburban 2500 does not have Overload springs, and it is not a super heavy duty tow vehicle.
It is rather soft when compared to a Ford F250, or a Silverado 2500 etc.

I do not understand your instructions, Andy.

[azflycaster]

Originally Posted by finalcutjoe

basically, there's a 480lb increase in the TV... but there were 6 more passengers, a 12ton bottle jack, pair of 8 ton jack stands, tool box, and a few other campsite accessories

It is hard to tell how much change you made because of the additional weight you added to the TV. I would stick to the configuration that you did your baseline with and see how much it has changed.

[boondockdad]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Adjusting the torsion bars, "is" how you move weight.

But again, when you have a "super heavy duty" tow vehicle, you make that task very difficult, if not impossible.

To help you understand, adjust the bars as high as you can, even if the front of the trailer is high and the rear of the tow vehicle is high. Then get some new weights.

You should see a change for the better. The the new problem becomes the hitch rating, and, the overload springs. Reducing the amount of overload springs will help tremendously.

Reducing the rating of the bars, will move weight, without having the rigidity.

But the first major step, is to do something about your tow vehicle.

Andy

what do you consider 'super heavy duty'?
my suburban is a 3/4 ton chassis. Super heavy duty would normally refer to a 4500 or heavier chassis…

I'm not sure you're understanding the configuration... the spring bars are set one notch shy of as high as they go... what do you mean 'set them as high as you can'?

overload springs? maybe you can tell us what those are?

reducing the bar rating? It's obvious there is no weight transfer with the spring bars at maximum leverage... If in fact the HD chassis is resisting the weight transfer- what exactly would reducing the spring bar rating do?

relieve the rigidity? so... lighter rated spring bars have a different modulus of elasticity?

You're obviously an old timer, here at the forums.. so I was refraining from flaming your original post... but its apparent you really don't know what you're talking about.
Perhaps you can stop being part of the problem, and provide some constructive advice without all the inflammatory remarks, and obvious Reese brand promotion.

[boondockdad]

Originally Posted by uwe

Not, You're forgetting the tongue weight of the trailer. It is part of the rear axle weight. Might be over 800lbs in the case of a 30ft trailer. Probably more.

the burbs dry axles are:
steer 3072
drive 2724

after loading for travel:
steer 3640 +568
drive 5000 +2276

i have to assume the extra 2276 on the drive axle includes the full tongue weight (1050 dry for my coach)

the hitch is setup per equalizers exact specs... (using their formula for setting the ball height) when I hooked up the coach, without the spring bars, it (the suburban) was nearly the same (levelness) as when I did load the spring bars (you can see that from the original weight... only an extra 80lbs to the steer axle)

so, in that case... I figure, since I can't load the spring bars anymore than they are.. it must be the ball height or angle that will allow more torque transfer.. right?

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by finalcutjoe

the burbs dry axles are:
steer 3072
drive 2724

after loading for travel:
steer 3640 +568
drive 5000 +2276

i have to assume the extra 2276 on the drive axle includes the full tongue weight (1050 dry for my coach)

the hitch is setup per equalizers exact specs... (using their formula for setting the ball height) when I hooked up the coach, without the spring bars, it (the suburban) was nearly the same (levelness) as when I did load the spring bars (you can see that from the original weight... only an extra 80lbs to the steer axle)

so, in that case... I figure, since I can't load the spring bars anymore than they are.. it must be the ball height or angle that will allow more torque transfer.. right?

I'm almost certain there will be someone that will dispute this, but yes, tilting the "head" of the hitch so the ball moves out from the tow vehicle will allow more weight transfer toward the front of the TV. What it does, is allow you to put more load on the bars.

[uwe]

Originally Posted by finalcutjoe

the burbs dry axles are:
steer 3072
drive 2724

after loading for travel:
steer 3640 +568
drive 5000 +2276

i have to assume the extra 2276 on the drive axle includes the full tongue weight (1050 dry for my coach)

the hitch is setup per equalizers exact specs... (using their formula for setting the ball height) when I hooked up the coach, without the spring bars, it (the suburban) was nearly the same (levelness) as when I did load the spring bars (you can see that from the original weight... only an extra 80lbs to the steer axle)

so, in that case... I figure, since I can't load the spring bars anymore than they are.. it must be the ball height or angle that will allow more torque transfer.. right?

Time for pictures.

[subfan1]

I too am going through this set up. I have an EQ hitch as well.
For me the angle of the hitch head was important in trying to transfer the tongue weight of the trailer off of the rear axel of our 3/4 ton Suburban. I am using 7 washers at the hitch head and my L shape brackets are ajusted to 3 1/2 holes from the top. In other words you can see 3 1/2 holes from the top.
I was only using 5 washers and my bars were pointing up from the ball looking back torwards the trailer. I now have a level ride and my distribution bars are level with the A frame of the trailer. I used a tape measure to assure overall spring compression. I am now only an 1/8 of an inch front, and 1/2 inch rear spring compression on the TV and the trailer sits about a 1/4 inch lower in the front Versus back. Last, don't forget to torque the small screw below the hitch head when hitched.
Good luck with yours.