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Old 06-18-2011, 09:18 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by flmgrip View Post
first pic shows how much i have to lift the truck/trailer to get the bars on, secon pic shows everything hooked up with WD bars engaged...
Why don't you hook up the bars before dropping the coupler on the ball? I was taught to line up the hitch, hook up the bars, and lower the coupler on the ball. I have a Reese hitch. Maybe mine is different.

Just wondering.

Nice rig!
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Old 06-18-2011, 09:42 PM   #30
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Readings reveal that additional adjustments are needed to see a better WD.

Weighing #1 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA1" 4280

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA1" 4340

Let TT Axles Load be "TT1" 5480

Then, while in same position on scales, take
Weighing #2 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Not Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA2" 4120

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA2" 4580

Let TT Axles Load be "TT2" 5400

Then, drive off scales and drop TT. Return to scales and take
Weighing #3 -- TV only -- TT Not Attached

Let Front Axle Load be "FA3" 4360

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA3" 3580

From the above values, you can calculate:

TV weight = FA3 + RA3 7940

Gross Combined Weight = (FA1 + RA1 + TT1) 14,100
- should also be equal to (FA2 + RA2 + TT2) 14,100 if scale weights are correct

TT Weight = Gross Combined Weight - TV Weight 6,140

Tongue Weight = (FA2 + RA2) - (FA3 + RA3)
8,700 7940 760

(Trailer solo weight of 6,140 - trailer hitched, but with WDH inactivated = 5,400. Difference of 740-lbs)

TW appears to be 12%

Load Transferred to TT Axles
when WD System in Activated = TT1 - TT2
5,400 - 5,480 = 80

FA weight declines 240-lbs when trailer attached, and rises back to within 80-lbs when WDH activated.

RA weight increases by 1,000-lbs when trailer attached, and declines by 240-lbs when WDH activated.

Were the "generic formula" followed we would see the 750-lb TW distributed as follows once WDH activated:

FA weight = 4,360 (static; no change)
RA weight = 4,145 (75% of 750-lbs; or 560-lbs)
TT weight = 5,590 (25% of 750-lbs; or 190-lbs)

But what we are seeing is:

FA "under" by 80-lbs (4,280)
RA "over" by 195-lbs (4,340)
TT "under" by 110-lbs (5,480)


More work is wanted, IMO. Essentially, little WD is taking place.

I can't tell much from the pictures, (and thanks for adding them); "perhaps" the trailer is slightly nose down. 12% TW "may" be a touch light.

.
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Old 06-18-2011, 10:16 PM   #31
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If all else fails, try reading the adjustment directions from the hitch manufacturer, which does not involve scales. I use this hitch on a smaller truck and trailer and it works well to get even distribution on the truck axles, and the trailer level. Then check the scales to see what you have.

A more heavily sprung truck will resist weight distribution more than a lighter rig like my own, according to my Airstream owners manual.

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Old 06-19-2011, 06:10 AM   #32
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FG,

I found this..Sherline Trailer Tongue Weight Scales To be a useful tool in getting the Classic set up when we first got it. The "calculated" tongue weights were quite different than the actual, under by at least 200lb, even more in some cases.
In my opinion well worth the $135.00.
After loading the trailer I will weigh the tongue to determine if it has changed any from the base weights.
Example...on our cross country trip last Oct. our weights were considerably different than when loaded for camping. I knew this before starting out and could adjust WD accordingly. After a trip to the CAT's I could make the final adjustments.

Click through the various links on the site. They have a lot of useful information.

Take a full side shot of your rig and a close-up of the hitch, that will help.
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Old 06-19-2011, 09:22 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitrock View Post
Why don't you hook up the bars before dropping the coupler on the ball? I was taught to line up the hitch, hook up the bars, and lower the coupler on the ball. I have a Reese hitch. Maybe mine is different.

Just wondering.

Nice rig!
can't do... different system...
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Old 06-19-2011, 09:26 AM   #34
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thanks for the math...
to put more weight onto the front axels i would need a forklift... i know the pic doesn't shows it very well but it takes a lot of afford to lift the truck that high to get the bars on the way it's set right now...

maybe time for a different WD hitch that doesn't require lifting the truck hooked up to the trailer... ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
Readings reveal that additional adjustments are needed to see a better WD.

Weighing #1 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA1" 4280

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA1" 4340

Let TT Axles Load be "TT1" 5480

Then, while in same position on scales, take
Weighing #2 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Not Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA2" 4120

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA2" 4580

Let TT Axles Load be "TT2" 5400

Then, drive off scales and drop TT. Return to scales and take
Weighing #3 -- TV only -- TT Not Attached

Let Front Axle Load be "FA3" 4360

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA3" 3580

From the above values, you can calculate:

TV weight = FA3 + RA3 7940

Gross Combined Weight = (FA1 + RA1 + TT1) 14,100
- should also be equal to (FA2 + RA2 + TT2) 14,100 if scale weights are correct

TT Weight = Gross Combined Weight - TV Weight 6,140

Tongue Weight = (FA2 + RA2) - (FA3 + RA3)
8,700 7940 760

(Trailer solo weight of 6,140 - trailer hitched, but with WDH inactivated = 5,400. Difference of 740-lbs)

TW appears to be 12%

Load Transferred to TT Axles
when WD System in Activated = TT1 - TT2
5,400 - 5,480 = 80

FA weight declines 240-lbs when trailer attached, and rises back to within 80-lbs when WDH activated.

RA weight increases by 1,000-lbs when trailer attached, and declines by 240-lbs when WDH activated.

Were the "generic formula" followed we would see the 750-lb TW distributed as follows once WDH activated:

FA weight = 4,360 (static; no change)
RA weight = 4,145 (75% of 750-lbs; or 560-lbs)
TT weight = 5,590 (25% of 750-lbs; or 190-lbs)

But what we are seeing is:

FA "under" by 80-lbs (4,280)
RA "over" by 195-lbs (4,340)
TT "under" by 110-lbs (5,480)


More work is wanted, IMO. Essentially, little WD is taking place.

I can't tell much from the pictures, (and thanks for adding them); "perhaps" the trailer is slightly nose down. 12% TW "may" be a touch light.

.
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Old 06-19-2011, 09:39 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
Since you started a thread over your concern, just start over. From scratch: Truck Empty (which is driver, full fuel and stuff that never leaves truck). Both axles separately. And give us factory GAWR's and GVWR. Plus pictures.

Then, with vehicles loaded for travel:


(per Ron Gratz over at rv.net)

Weighing #1 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA1"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA1"

Let TT Axles Load be "TT1"

Then, while in same position on scales, take
Weighing #2 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Not Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA2"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA2"

Let TT Axles Load be "TT2"

Then, drive off scales and drop TT. Return to scales and take
Weighing #3 -- TV only -- TT Not Attached

Let Front Axle Load be "FA3"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA3"

From the above values, you can calculate:

TV weight = FA3 + RA3

Gross Combined Weight = (FA1 + RA1 + TT1)
- should also be equal to (FA2 + RA2 + TT2) if scale weights are correct

TT Weight = Gross Combined Weight - TV Weight

Tongue Weight = (FA2 + RA2) - (FA3 + RA3)

Load Transferred to TT Axles
when WD System in Activated = TT1 - TT2


The generic WDH adjustment these days is 75% to TV rear axle and 25% to TT axles when WDH is "correct" (against manufacturer guidelines as the control). The TV FA should be the same in all scaled readings (or close).

With these readings tire cold pressure should be adjusted accordingly.
What are the current pressure numbers against what load numbers?

Further experimentation can be done past that point. First, set a new baseline.

.
Beautifully elegant explanation! Thank you! This is the most precise and "useable" information on this subject that I have seen. I searched my Airstream "log" for past weights to apply your assessment strategy to my situation, but alas, I am short some of the information.

We have the ProPride hitch, and the recommendation from the manufacturer was to insure that the FA weights were the same after hitching as before hitching. With the WD we "redistributed" 400# back to the FA. The trailer is level, and tows well. However, I'll be certain to return to the scales to recheck ALL my weights. Thank you again for your detailed explanation. ZIGI
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Old 06-19-2011, 09:43 AM   #36
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You're welcome, ZIGI.

I always used the electric trailer jack to raise my hitched combination to set the bar chains (links).

More leverage is needed from the WDH. Does one just add washers and/or raise the brackets (as seen in EQ literature as "Underadjustment")? I see that there is a special "Airstream" .pdf

This is where I would start anew.

There are good discussions on the EQ here and on woodalls.net (the better gateway to rv.net for the "Towing" subforum); the form is from member "Ron Gratz" who also posts here on occasion.

I consider the following thread to be the "basic" Airforums Airstream hitch rigging thread (even though there are changes and refinements in the following years; this covers 2005 - 2010) as discussions and disagreements can be tracked from this point (and read provided links as per 2Air and others):

Visited Cat Scales . . .

A search of other owners with EQ hitches would be helpful, IMO.


.
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Old 08-20-2011, 08:12 AM   #37
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Thumbs up This is GREAT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
Since you started a thread over your concern, just start over. From scratch: Truck Empty (which is driver, full fuel and stuff that never leaves truck). Both axles separately. And give us factory GAWR's and GVWR. Plus pictures.

Then, with vehicles loaded for travel:


(per Ron Gratz over at rv.net)

Weighing #1 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA1"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA1"

Let TT Axles Load be "TT1"

Then, while in same position on scales, take
Weighing #2 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Not Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA2"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA2"

Let TT Axles Load be "TT2"

Then, drive off scales and drop TT. Return to scales and take
Weighing #3 -- TV only -- TT Not Attached

Let Front Axle Load be "FA3"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA3"

From the above values, you can calculate:

TV weight = FA3 + RA3

Gross Combined Weight = (FA1 + RA1 + TT1)
- should also be equal to (FA2 + RA2 + TT2) if scale weights are correct

TT Weight = Gross Combined Weight - TV Weight

Tongue Weight = (FA2 + RA2) - (FA3 + RA3)

Load Transferred to TT Axles
when WD System in Activated = TT1 - TT2



The generic WDH adjustment these days is 75% to TV rear axle and 25% to TT axles when WDH is "correct" (against manufacturer guidelines as the control). The TV FA should be the same in all scaled readings (or close).

With these readings tire cold pressure should be adjusted accordingly.
What are the current pressure numbers against what load numbers?

Further experimentation can be done past that point. First, set a new baseline.

.
I think this is Genius! This explaination is so good even I can understand it! Excellent!
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Old 08-20-2011, 08:15 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by palmtreegirl View Post
I think this is Genius! This explaination is so good even I can understand it! Excellent!
Liz.

Research proved that the weight transfered to the tow vehicle thru the load equalizing hitch, should be 50-50 on the front and rear axles.

Andy
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Old 08-20-2011, 08:31 AM   #39
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I would only add one more weight....TT only

... trailer axle on one pad and the tongue on another for a more accurate tongue wt.

or....... Sherline Trailer Tongue Weight Scales

Bob
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Old 08-20-2011, 09:03 AM   #40
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I'll be heading back to the Scales.....my quandry is about the bars - 1000, 750.....I'm not sure about those.
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Old 08-20-2011, 09:33 AM   #41
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Wow to much scale talk for me here. I put it level and if it drives nice it works. But then I don't worry about it to much.

But as for your tire wear problem:

You never rotated you tires?????? That should happen every 5-6 thousand miles. THat is why your truck tires are worn. It has nothing to do with your set up. Really it doesn't. As for your trailer I'm not sure. The only reason I have seen uneven ware on trailer tires was my friends trailer who had a bad axle.

Don't sweet the scale set up. If you did it once and it was fine, it's not going to change the next time you go back or the next. You you could lighten up those bars. It will put less stress on the trailer and have the axle checked out.
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Old 08-20-2011, 09:36 AM   #42
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I am sure about the bars. Go witht he 750. I pull a 25 footer with a 2500 Dodge with no problems at all. I did go from the 1000 lb bars the dealer stuck me with to 800 lb. One wild idea I have after reading all this is that tires wear from slipping. Is it possible with the stiff bars and the huge leverage you are using to hitch (I can do ours with one hand) that your rear wheels are actually lifting and wearing from spinning in some situations? That would also transmit a huge amout of load back on the rear axle of the trailer, causing the rear tires to overload.
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