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Old 06-17-2011, 09:17 PM   #21
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Bob,
The axles don't carry the tongue weight. You said the tongue weight was 1,175 so the two #3,500 lb axles are more than adequate for the remaining 6,125 lbs.
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Old 06-17-2011, 09:33 PM   #22
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Since you started a thread over your concern, just start over. From scratch: Truck Empty (which is driver, full fuel and stuff that never leaves truck). Both axles separately. And give us factory GAWR's and GVWR. Plus pictures.

Then, with vehicles loaded for travel:


(per Ron Gratz over at rv.net)

Weighing #1 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA1"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA1"

Let TT Axles Load be "TT1"

Then, while in same position on scales, take
Weighing #2 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Not Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA2"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA2"

Let TT Axles Load be "TT2"

Then, drive off scales and drop TT. Return to scales and take
Weighing #3 -- TV only -- TT Not Attached

Let Front Axle Load be "FA3"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA3"

From the above values, you can calculate:

TV weight = FA3 + RA3

Gross Combined Weight = (FA1 + RA1 + TT1)
- should also be equal to (FA2 + RA2 + TT2) if scale weights are correct

TT Weight = Gross Combined Weight - TV Weight

Tongue Weight = (FA2 + RA2) - (FA3 + RA3)

Load Transferred to TT Axles
when WD System in Activated = TT1 - TT2


The generic WDH adjustment these days is 75% to TV rear axle and 25% to TT axles when WDH is "correct" (against manufacturer guidelines as the control). The TV FA should be the same in all scaled readings (or close).

With these readings tire cold pressure should be adjusted accordingly.
What are the current pressure numbers against what load numbers?

Further experimentation can be done past that point. First, set a new baseline.

.
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Old 06-17-2011, 11:38 PM   #23
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Hi,

(1.) Equal-i-zer hitches don't have chains. [Andy]

(2.) You can go to lighter bars, but will have to buy a different hitch head too.

(3.) To make it simple, you should rotate your truck tires every other or every time of oil change.

(4.) I had a broken clip and a broken wire on my rear trailer brakes; You might check to see if all of your trailer brakes are adjusted the same and working. Possible that only your rear axle brakes are working or doing most of the stopping.

(5.) Do you have pictures of all of the tires involved? Different wear patterns show different reasons for bad wear.

(6.) Rare, but possible for trucks to have un-equal braking too. [not meaning that your truck brakes should all be the same because they aren't, but in proper proportion with each other. For example, if you replaced your truck's brakes with organic on the front and ceramic on the rear instead of the factory metalic all the way around, you could have too little braking on the front and too much braking on the rear.

These are only suggestions as I haven't seen or know anything about your vehicles.
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Old 06-18-2011, 03:57 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top View Post
Bob,
The axles don't carry the tongue weight. You said the tongue weight was 1,175 so the two #3,500 lb axles are more than adequate for the remaining 6,125 lbs.
Yeah right....Str,3640 Dr axle,4680 Trlr axle,7640 Loaded for camping.

That's all I have to say...
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Old 06-18-2011, 09:34 AM   #25
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weights

Actual weight tests, using a proper rated hitch, properly installed "AND" properly adjusted, showed that one third of the tongue weight will go back to the trailer axle/axles, and two thirds goes to the tow vehicke.

Again, with everything proper, the two thirds of the tongue weight should be divided equally between the 4 tires on the tow vehicle.

Those tests we done in 1970, for Caravanner Insurance Company.

Repeated testing using different size Airstreams and tow vehicles, continued with the same basic formula, namely 1/3 of the tongue weight goes back to the trailer and two thirds of the weight goes to the tow vehicle.

Unfortuantely for some, a few dealers operate with "that's good enough" or "who really cares", when it comes to installing load equalizing hitches.
But they do try to be nice, so that if and when the trailer is rolled, the customer comes back to the same dealer and starts all over again.

Seems like being nice helps sales, and kicking proper load equalizing hitch performance to the curb, is readily acceptable, to all to many.

Andy
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Old 06-18-2011, 09:41 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flmgrip View Post
i think i was told before that the bars are to big, but the 600 bars have a different diameter so i would need to buy an entirely new hitch setup... i was pressed into the 1000# bars

btw i don't have any chain anywhere... so not sure what you are reffering too
If your hitch bars are made by Equalizer, they do not use chains.

However, tests clearly demostrated that the equalizer bars, are at the bottom of the list for flexing with a given load, therefore they transfer much more road shock to the trailer, and are harder to adjust to correct issues such as your having with the tires.

Andy
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Old 06-18-2011, 06:14 PM   #27
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ok folks, all great input here...
not sure if i want to ditch my equalizer hitch yet, my tongue is somewhere between 700-900 lbs, so the 1000# bars 'should' be the right one

let's catch up on all these issues...

tire wear truck: both rear tires are worn equially more, so i certainly won't rotate them, but let's assume they are worn more because of more wheight on the tail...?

tire wear trailer: one tire is worn slightly more on the outside so maybe i'm just overreacting, that tire might break more or i drove an extended time with slighly higher tire pressure causing this... so let's forget about this for now...

WD hitch: my truck/trailer has been always driving nice but it seemed that the front tires started getting a little 'looser" over time

i havn't seen any damage to the trailer as it has been mentioned it could cause by improper setup... i loose a rivet here and there but anyone who has been driving the 5N of los angeles knows why...

i did go to the scales today... sort of loaded more or less the way i travel except the water tanks fairly empty (propane full / gas empty 10gal of 80gal capacity)

not connected....connected without WD....connected with WD (about 15months ago)

front 4360..........4120............................4280 .....................(4240)
rear 3580...........4580............................434 0.....................(4020)
trailer 6140........5400.............................5480. ....................(5280)
total 14080........ 14100..........................14100.............. ......(13540)

now the first thing comes in mind that i quadrupled my tank capacity but didn't do any adjustments elsewhere... 84gal of diesel = almost 600lbs...

now i'm not the best at this, but it seems my tongue wheighs 1000 lbs? also it seems front/rear on truck is well distributed?

don't get me wrong my rig drives and feels great, my main concern is that i have to lift my truck quite a bit to get the bars on... pics will follow if figure out how to post them here

thanks for your continued input !
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Old 06-18-2011, 06:20 PM   #28
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first pic shows how much i have to lift the truck/trailer to get the bars on, secon pic shows everything hooked up with WD bars engaged...
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Old 06-18-2011, 08:18 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flmgrip View Post
first pic shows how much i have to lift the truck/trailer to get the bars on, secon pic shows everything hooked up with WD bars engaged...
Why don't you hook up the bars before dropping the coupler on the ball? I was taught to line up the hitch, hook up the bars, and lower the coupler on the ball. I have a Reese hitch. Maybe mine is different.

Just wondering.

Nice rig!
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Old 06-18-2011, 08:42 PM   #30
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Readings reveal that additional adjustments are needed to see a better WD.

Weighing #1 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA1" 4280

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA1" 4340

Let TT Axles Load be "TT1" 5480

Then, while in same position on scales, take
Weighing #2 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Not Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA2" 4120

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA2" 4580

Let TT Axles Load be "TT2" 5400

Then, drive off scales and drop TT. Return to scales and take
Weighing #3 -- TV only -- TT Not Attached

Let Front Axle Load be "FA3" 4360

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA3" 3580

From the above values, you can calculate:

TV weight = FA3 + RA3 7940

Gross Combined Weight = (FA1 + RA1 + TT1) 14,100
- should also be equal to (FA2 + RA2 + TT2) 14,100 if scale weights are correct

TT Weight = Gross Combined Weight - TV Weight 6,140

Tongue Weight = (FA2 + RA2) - (FA3 + RA3)
8,700 7940 760

(Trailer solo weight of 6,140 - trailer hitched, but with WDH inactivated = 5,400. Difference of 740-lbs)

TW appears to be 12%

Load Transferred to TT Axles
when WD System in Activated = TT1 - TT2
5,400 - 5,480 = 80

FA weight declines 240-lbs when trailer attached, and rises back to within 80-lbs when WDH activated.

RA weight increases by 1,000-lbs when trailer attached, and declines by 240-lbs when WDH activated.

Were the "generic formula" followed we would see the 750-lb TW distributed as follows once WDH activated:

FA weight = 4,360 (static; no change)
RA weight = 4,145 (75% of 750-lbs; or 560-lbs)
TT weight = 5,590 (25% of 750-lbs; or 190-lbs)

But what we are seeing is:

FA "under" by 80-lbs (4,280)
RA "over" by 195-lbs (4,340)
TT "under" by 110-lbs (5,480)


More work is wanted, IMO. Essentially, little WD is taking place.

I can't tell much from the pictures, (and thanks for adding them); "perhaps" the trailer is slightly nose down. 12% TW "may" be a touch light.

.
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Old 06-18-2011, 09:16 PM   #31
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If all else fails, try reading the adjustment directions from the hitch manufacturer, which does not involve scales. I use this hitch on a smaller truck and trailer and it works well to get even distribution on the truck axles, and the trailer level. Then check the scales to see what you have.

A more heavily sprung truck will resist weight distribution more than a lighter rig like my own, according to my Airstream owners manual.

doug k
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Old 06-19-2011, 05:10 AM   #32
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FG,

I found this..Sherline Trailer Tongue Weight Scales To be a useful tool in getting the Classic set up when we first got it. The "calculated" tongue weights were quite different than the actual, under by at least 200lb, even more in some cases.
In my opinion well worth the $135.00.
After loading the trailer I will weigh the tongue to determine if it has changed any from the base weights.
Example...on our cross country trip last Oct. our weights were considerably different than when loaded for camping. I knew this before starting out and could adjust WD accordingly. After a trip to the CAT's I could make the final adjustments.

Click through the various links on the site. They have a lot of useful information.

Take a full side shot of your rig and a close-up of the hitch, that will help.
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Old 06-19-2011, 08:22 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitrock View Post
Why don't you hook up the bars before dropping the coupler on the ball? I was taught to line up the hitch, hook up the bars, and lower the coupler on the ball. I have a Reese hitch. Maybe mine is different.

Just wondering.

Nice rig!
can't do... different system...
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Old 06-19-2011, 08:26 AM   #34
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thanks for the math...
to put more weight onto the front axels i would need a forklift... i know the pic doesn't shows it very well but it takes a lot of afford to lift the truck that high to get the bars on the way it's set right now...

maybe time for a different WD hitch that doesn't require lifting the truck hooked up to the trailer... ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
Readings reveal that additional adjustments are needed to see a better WD.

Weighing #1 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA1" 4280

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA1" 4340

Let TT Axles Load be "TT1" 5480

Then, while in same position on scales, take
Weighing #2 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Not Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA2" 4120

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA2" 4580

Let TT Axles Load be "TT2" 5400

Then, drive off scales and drop TT. Return to scales and take
Weighing #3 -- TV only -- TT Not Attached

Let Front Axle Load be "FA3" 4360

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA3" 3580

From the above values, you can calculate:

TV weight = FA3 + RA3 7940

Gross Combined Weight = (FA1 + RA1 + TT1) 14,100
- should also be equal to (FA2 + RA2 + TT2) 14,100 if scale weights are correct

TT Weight = Gross Combined Weight - TV Weight 6,140

Tongue Weight = (FA2 + RA2) - (FA3 + RA3)
8,700 7940 760

(Trailer solo weight of 6,140 - trailer hitched, but with WDH inactivated = 5,400. Difference of 740-lbs)

TW appears to be 12%

Load Transferred to TT Axles
when WD System in Activated = TT1 - TT2
5,400 - 5,480 = 80

FA weight declines 240-lbs when trailer attached, and rises back to within 80-lbs when WDH activated.

RA weight increases by 1,000-lbs when trailer attached, and declines by 240-lbs when WDH activated.

Were the "generic formula" followed we would see the 750-lb TW distributed as follows once WDH activated:

FA weight = 4,360 (static; no change)
RA weight = 4,145 (75% of 750-lbs; or 560-lbs)
TT weight = 5,590 (25% of 750-lbs; or 190-lbs)

But what we are seeing is:

FA "under" by 80-lbs (4,280)
RA "over" by 195-lbs (4,340)
TT "under" by 110-lbs (5,480)


More work is wanted, IMO. Essentially, little WD is taking place.

I can't tell much from the pictures, (and thanks for adding them); "perhaps" the trailer is slightly nose down. 12% TW "may" be a touch light.

.
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Old 06-19-2011, 08:39 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
Since you started a thread over your concern, just start over. From scratch: Truck Empty (which is driver, full fuel and stuff that never leaves truck). Both axles separately. And give us factory GAWR's and GVWR. Plus pictures.

Then, with vehicles loaded for travel:


(per Ron Gratz over at rv.net)

Weighing #1 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA1"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA1"

Let TT Axles Load be "TT1"

Then, while in same position on scales, take
Weighing #2 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Not Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA2"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA2"

Let TT Axles Load be "TT2"

Then, drive off scales and drop TT. Return to scales and take
Weighing #3 -- TV only -- TT Not Attached

Let Front Axle Load be "FA3"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA3"

From the above values, you can calculate:

TV weight = FA3 + RA3

Gross Combined Weight = (FA1 + RA1 + TT1)
- should also be equal to (FA2 + RA2 + TT2) if scale weights are correct

TT Weight = Gross Combined Weight - TV Weight

Tongue Weight = (FA2 + RA2) - (FA3 + RA3)

Load Transferred to TT Axles
when WD System in Activated = TT1 - TT2


The generic WDH adjustment these days is 75% to TV rear axle and 25% to TT axles when WDH is "correct" (against manufacturer guidelines as the control). The TV FA should be the same in all scaled readings (or close).

With these readings tire cold pressure should be adjusted accordingly.
What are the current pressure numbers against what load numbers?

Further experimentation can be done past that point. First, set a new baseline.

.
Beautifully elegant explanation! Thank you! This is the most precise and "useable" information on this subject that I have seen. I searched my Airstream "log" for past weights to apply your assessment strategy to my situation, but alas, I am short some of the information.

We have the ProPride hitch, and the recommendation from the manufacturer was to insure that the FA weights were the same after hitching as before hitching. With the WD we "redistributed" 400# back to the FA. The trailer is level, and tows well. However, I'll be certain to return to the scales to recheck ALL my weights. Thank you again for your detailed explanation. ZIGI
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Old 06-19-2011, 08:43 AM   #36
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You're welcome, ZIGI.

I always used the electric trailer jack to raise my hitched combination to set the bar chains (links).

More leverage is needed from the WDH. Does one just add washers and/or raise the brackets (as seen in EQ literature as "Underadjustment")? I see that there is a special "Airstream" .pdf

This is where I would start anew.

There are good discussions on the EQ here and on woodalls.net (the better gateway to rv.net for the "Towing" subforum); the form is from member "Ron Gratz" who also posts here on occasion.

I consider the following thread to be the "basic" Airforums Airstream hitch rigging thread (even though there are changes and refinements in the following years; this covers 2005 - 2010) as discussions and disagreements can be tracked from this point (and read provided links as per 2Air and others):

Visited Cat Scales . . .

A search of other owners with EQ hitches would be helpful, IMO.


.
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Old 08-20-2011, 07:12 AM   #37
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Thumbs up This is GREAT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
Since you started a thread over your concern, just start over. From scratch: Truck Empty (which is driver, full fuel and stuff that never leaves truck). Both axles separately. And give us factory GAWR's and GVWR. Plus pictures.

Then, with vehicles loaded for travel:


(per Ron Gratz over at rv.net)

Weighing #1 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA1"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA1"

Let TT Axles Load be "TT1"

Then, while in same position on scales, take
Weighing #2 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Not Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA2"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA2"

Let TT Axles Load be "TT2"

Then, drive off scales and drop TT. Return to scales and take
Weighing #3 -- TV only -- TT Not Attached

Let Front Axle Load be "FA3"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA3"

From the above values, you can calculate:

TV weight = FA3 + RA3

Gross Combined Weight = (FA1 + RA1 + TT1)
- should also be equal to (FA2 + RA2 + TT2) if scale weights are correct

TT Weight = Gross Combined Weight - TV Weight

Tongue Weight = (FA2 + RA2) - (FA3 + RA3)

Load Transferred to TT Axles
when WD System in Activated = TT1 - TT2



The generic WDH adjustment these days is 75% to TV rear axle and 25% to TT axles when WDH is "correct" (against manufacturer guidelines as the control). The TV FA should be the same in all scaled readings (or close).

With these readings tire cold pressure should be adjusted accordingly.
What are the current pressure numbers against what load numbers?

Further experimentation can be done past that point. First, set a new baseline.

.
I think this is Genius! This explaination is so good even I can understand it! Excellent!
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Old 08-20-2011, 07:15 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by palmtreegirl View Post
I think this is Genius! This explaination is so good even I can understand it! Excellent!
Liz.

Research proved that the weight transfered to the tow vehicle thru the load equalizing hitch, should be 50-50 on the front and rear axles.

Andy
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Old 08-20-2011, 07:31 AM   #39
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I would only add one more weight....TT only

... trailer axle on one pad and the tongue on another for a more accurate tongue wt.

or....... Sherline Trailer Tongue Weight Scales

Bob
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Old 08-20-2011, 08:03 AM   #40
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I'll be heading back to the Scales.....my quandry is about the bars - 1000, 750.....I'm not sure about those.
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