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Old 02-02-2014, 04:31 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by gmw photos View Post
His setting up of this car to pull this trailer has been covered in depth in other threads, and it is safe to say he has done a lot of homework, and a lot of work on this. If you read his other threads, you'll see all the effort that has gone into it.
If you would be so kind as to post a link to that tread I will read it.

I have sent him a PM regarding the brake away cable, the safety chains, umbilical wiring, and the routing of the umbilical cable. Issues that prompted my comment.
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Old 02-02-2014, 04:51 PM   #30
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I mostly travel alone, I am female and not as strong as a guy, so my rv guy welded my pipe to a longer one ( total length about 3' 5" ) which makes lifting a breeze for me. I drive a 2013 2500 suburban and have a bambi, my car however is loaded when I travel( work related cargo). The long bar saves me.
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Old 02-02-2014, 04:59 PM   #31
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I jack up the truck and trailer with the tongue jack.
Weight bars go on real easy with just hand effort.
I have jacked the truck and trailer till the jack reached the end of its travel.
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Old 02-02-2014, 05:00 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by gmw photos View Post
Mark,
What I am suggesting about restoring front axle weight is that I would have guessed ( key word here fro me is "guess" ) would be that restoring the front axle to 100% would be a good starting point. If you are trying to go to a siginificant higher load on the front, then I could see that could make snapping the bars up more difficult. You are essentially having to "preload" the front suspension of the car with all that weight, connect the bars, then lower the trailer "onto" the bars.
Is it considered normal to restore more than 100% front axle load on these car setups that CanAm does ?
OK, all. I have made a mistake in my weighing. I DID NOT DO A WEIGHT W/O THE WD ATTACHED. So, when I am not saying that I am only getting 200# of WD, that's probably wrong. I only weight the car with no TT, then I weighed the car with TT and WD. Since my car only front weighed 2300, and now with WD weighs 2500, I assumed the effect of WD was 200#.

GMW has pointed out my error. I needed to get a weight with no WD, which would probably show my front as LESS than 2300#, and therefore my REAL WD is probably much higher than 200#.

ME<----BIG DUMMY HERE!

Thanks GMW.
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Old 02-02-2014, 05:00 PM   #33
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Two ideas

I wonder if you have reached the limit of what to expect with 1000 pound bars.

I now use an EAZ-Lift Elite and get my front axle to about 200 pounds more than what the tow vehicle has when not hooked up (but I don't have a full set of tickets with the current hitch). I'm using 1400 pound bars.

Previously I used a different brand hitch with 1000 pound bars. I could easily get my front axle to 100% of it's unhitched weight. That sometimes felt squirrely, so I tried to get one chain link tighter. I couldn't do it until I put the jack down on a big stack of blocks. Then I lifted the back of the car a *lot*, and got one more chain link. I didn't have to lift the tow vehicle back end off the ground, but it was scary how high I was going. So think about 1400 pound bars.

Also, how much rotational flex on the hitch head are you getting when you drop the trailer on the ball, and when you are all hitched up with the jack retracted? My vehicle had a real problem in this area until I had Andy T. weld on some reinforcement. With too much flex, you won't get the weight distribution that you would normally get.

Good luck.
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Old 02-02-2014, 05:04 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
If you would be so kind as to post a link to that tread I will read it.

I have sent him a PM regarding the brake away cable, the safety chains, umbilical wiring, and the routing of the umbilical cable. Issues that prompted my comment.
I didn't get that PM Howie.
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Old 02-02-2014, 05:09 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by SSquared View Post
I wonder if you have reached the limit of what to expect with 1000 pound bars.

I now use an EAZ-Lift Elite and get my front axle to about 200 pounds more than what the tow vehicle has when not hooked up (but I don't have a full set of tickets with the current hitch). I'm using 1400 pound bars.

Previously I used a different brand hitch with 1000 pound bars. I could easily get my front axle to 100% of it's unhitched weight. That sometimes felt squirrely, so I tried to get one chain link tighter. I couldn't do it until I put the jack down on a big stack of blocks. Then I lifted the back of the car a *lot*, and got one more chain link. I didn't have to lift the tow vehicle back end off the ground, but it was scary how high I was going. So think about 1400 pound bars.

Also, how much rotational flex on the hitch head are you getting when you drop the trailer on the ball, and when you are all hitched up with the jack retracted? My vehicle had a real problem in this area until I had Andy T. weld on some reinforcement. With too much flex, you won't get the weight distribution that you would normally get.

Good luck.
My front axle with no trailer was 2300#. With the most WD I can apply - what I called the scary high lift - I got my front axle to 2500#. That's what I thought was "200# of WD." But I was wrong, because I didn't weight the rig with no WD first to see how LOW the front axle weight would become. Apparently, less than 2300#.

So, maybe I have all the WD I can expect to have, or even SHOULD have.

We have the hitch head tilted back about 12 degrees or so.

My alarm here in this thread was that I though this "200#" I had was too little. I thought I need another 100# or even more, and I couldn't figure out how on earth I would get the car high enough to do that. Well, I probably have all the WD I need. But, I will now go back and get a weight with no WD applied.

Big panic over my own stupidity!
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Old 02-02-2014, 05:20 PM   #36
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Hello mstephens:

I'm sure I don't know what I'm talking about with this problem you've got. I've only pulled my airstream using similar Reese bars for over 40 years.

Looking at the photo you supplied, it appears your hitch receiver is low to the ground and you have raised the ball height quite a bit to get it level. Your bars remain low to the ground therefor your chains don't reach.

My guess is you might need to lengthen your chains. You can only tension the arc distance the latch will travel, unless you raise the rear of the vehicle. I believe you are attempting that fix.

You seem to believe you need more tension than your getting and I suggest you give Eaz-Lift a phone call for their advice.

Good luck -- Don
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Old 02-02-2014, 05:22 PM   #37
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Big panic over my own stupidity!
Well, we've all been there!
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Old 02-02-2014, 05:26 PM   #38
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My front axle with no trailer was 2300#. With the most WD I can apply - what I called the scary high lift - I got my front axle to 2500#. That's what I thought was "200# of WD." But I was wrong, because I didn't weight the rig with no WD first to see how LOW the front axle weight would become. Apparently, less than 2300#.

So, maybe I have all the WD I can expect to have, or even SHOULD have.

We have the hitch head tilted back about 12 degrees or so.

My alarm here in this thread was that I though this "200#" I had was too little. I thought I need another 100# or even more, and I couldn't figure out how on earth I would get the car high enough to do that. Well, I probably have all the WD I need. But, I will now go back and get a weight with no WD applied.

Big panic over my own stupidity!
And what I am saying is that if the unloaded car has a steer axle weight of 2300, that would be my goal in setting WD....to get the front back to 2300.

The two concerns I would have about running more than 2300 on the front is, one, the car is designed to have an "understeer gradient" when pushed hard ( past it's limits ) into a corner. In other words, it should "push", or slide the front tires slightly. By running the car front heavy ( more than 2300 pounds on the steer axle in this case ) you may induce the handling to being one of oversteer ( rear tires break loose before the front tires do....or so called "loose" ). An oversteer situation with a trailer in tow is likely going to get ugly real quick.
The other issue I see as bad is it's going to be hard on the front suspension of the car to be running heavier than it is designed for.

Now....having said all that, I welcome some of the resident engineers to jump in here and correct my mistakes or otherwise throw water on my ideas.
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Old 02-02-2014, 06:17 PM   #39
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I see two competing ideas. One idea, get the car's f/r weight ratio back to the original 51%. The other is to restore the front weight back to 2300.

The car alone was 2300F/2180R = 51% front.

With my current level of WD I have: 2500F/2740R = 48% front.

I mistakenly was after making the front 51% again, or 2672F/2567R.
Now, that would take another 172# on the front! I think I would have to jack the car up about 9 feet to get that figure! Not going to happen.

If all I have to get is the original weight, that's a piece of cake.
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Old 02-02-2014, 06:32 PM   #40
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There is no single formula or ration when setting up a WD hitch. There are too many variables to consider to allow that.

What you want is to return the front axle to at least it's original steering geometry or slightly lower. Overloading the front axle just to meet a ration may result in completely misalignment of the front end and excess tire wear.

Now that said the other limiting factor is can this be accomplished and still have the rear axle within manufactures limits and the TV riding at a relative good position. If one has not exceeded the load limits on the rear axle helper spring, air bags or air shocks may be considered to accomplish this.
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Old 02-02-2014, 06:38 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by mstephens View Post
The picture is of the first attempt which only yielded 140# of WD to the front. It felt light in the steering. I then tilted the head back farther this morning, and get the weight again. This time it was 200# on the front.

ticket 1 car only: 2300F, 2180R

Ticket 2 with TT: 2440F, 2860R, 5420TT

Ticket 3 (more tilt): 2500F, 2740R, 5480TT
Looks like you see this now: if the front axle starts at 2300 (car only, assumes you have no trailer), then you are actually restoring more weight to the front axle than you started with.

How much weight can your rear axle handle? If you only load the front to 2300, will you be adding about 800# to the rear (for close to 3000#) and if so, can the axle handle that?

Good luck!
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Old 02-02-2014, 07:04 PM   #42
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A perfect set up would be maintaining the same axel weight ratios. However, if that is not achievable, one try's to get as close as he can, and I think you are there. Having the delta at the rear 1/2 inch lower is no big deal. I bet the handling actually feels really good now and your biggest concern is the amount of work the jack is doing and I agree with the others who have experience with using the jack who have confirmed that this is normal with lower vehicles. Andy T will most likely have some comforting input since he has lots of experience with the same set up. Jim
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