Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-19-2009, 10:40 PM   #127
3 Rivet Member
 
SSChanger's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Louisville , United States
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 127
Blog Entries: 4
Just bought a 94' Excella 1000 31' with a 2003 Chevy 2500HD to tow it. What's the best stabilizing hitch system to buy for this, please.

Thanks!
__________________

__________________
SSChanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2009, 01:48 AM   #128
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSChanger View Post
Just bought a 94' Excella 1000 31' with a 2003 Chevy 2500HD to tow it. What's the best stabilizing hitch system to buy for this, please.

Thanks!
A Reese dual cam with 800# bars.

Andy
__________________

__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2009, 08:35 AM   #129
Rivet Master
 
centennialman's Avatar

 
2016 20' Flying Cloud
Centennial , Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,284
Andy,

For my 66 Safari, are 500# bars ok?

Thanks!
__________________
Steve "Centennial Man"
centennialman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2009, 11:51 AM   #130
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by centennialman View Post
Andy,

For my 66 Safari, are 500# bars ok?

Thanks!
Torsion bars match the trailer to the tow vehicle.

What tow vehicle do you have?

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2009, 07:32 PM   #131
Rivet Master
 
boondockdad's Avatar
 
2008 30' Classic S/O
Dearborn , Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,295
Images: 21
Andy, I’m having a hard time with your ‘torsion bar rating vs. tow vehicle suspension’ recommendations... that is, the heavier the suspension, the lighter the torsion bars. I put about 8,000 miles on my 2008 30’ S/O + 2005 Suburban 2500 using an Equal-I-zer 12,000/1,200 hitch-- which you would consider ‘over-hitched’. However, I was not able to get any appreciable weight transfer to the steer axle (best case was -200lbs from baseline). This created a *very* twitchy towing experience- ‘floating front end’ syndrome. Would not lighter torsion bars exacerbate this problem?

I eventually went to The Arrow 14,000/1,400 and have excellent weight distribution.

I think there is some merit, however, to punishing a trailer with a ‘cement truck’ suspension... I towed same trailer, for a bit, with a single rear wheel dodge CTD 3500. I think they offer a kidney belt option with this monster. The ride was bone jarring, and I noticed some unusual coincidences? Front sofa anchor bolts stripped out... fire extinguisher stripped out of wall... all drawers would be out of cabinets, scattered on floor.. sink covers on floor (none of this ever happened with ‘burb and Arrow)

IMHO, I think 85MH325 hit it on the head when he stated there are simply too many variables/combinations for a blanket “over-hitching” statement.
__________________
boondockdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2009, 11:29 PM   #132
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalcutjoe View Post
Andy, I’m having a hard time with your ‘torsion bar rating vs. tow vehicle suspension’ recommendations... that is, the heavier the suspension, the lighter the torsion bars. I put about 8,000 miles on my 2008 30’ S/O + 2005 Suburban 2500 using an Equal-I-zer 12,000/1,200 hitch-- which you would consider ‘over-hitched’. However, I was not able to get any appreciable weight transfer to the steer axle (best case was -200lbs from baseline). This created a *very* twitchy towing experience- ‘floating front end’ syndrome. Would not lighter torsion bars exacerbate this problem?

I eventually went to The Arrow 14,000/1,400 and have excellent weight distribution.

I think there is some merit, however, to punishing a trailer with a ‘cement truck’ suspension... I towed same trailer, for a bit, with a single rear wheel dodge CTD 3500. I think they offer a kidney belt option with this monster. The ride was bone jarring, and I noticed some unusual coincidences? Front sofa anchor bolts stripped out... fire extinguisher stripped out of wall... all drawers would be out of cabinets, scattered on floor.. sink covers on floor (none of this ever happened with ‘burb and Arrow)

IMHO, I think 85MH325 hit it on the head when he stated there are simply too many variables/combinations for a blanket “over-hitching” statement.
Until someone has taken the time and effort, as well as the expense, to offer a better "rule of thumb" than I have posted, then in all fairness, I must respectfully stay with my offers and suggestions.

As of this time, I am not aware of anyone offering a "better method," but several have offered "I am wrong" suggestions and statements.

It's all to easy to tell someone that what they have published is wrong, but the same people have not offered anything better.

I strive to be helpful, but if someone disagrees, so be it.

But again, I am "wide open" to a better rule of thumb, and not just an opinion.

Thanks to all that are pleased that have made the changes.

If someone chooses to submit what they have is great and why, then so be it, too.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2009, 11:32 PM   #133
moderator
Commercial Member
 
Airslide's Avatar

 
2014 23' FB International
Currently Looking...
Wilton , California
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,705
Images: 50
Send a message via Yahoo to Airslide
Just got the official weigh in ...

I was on the road this week and decided it was time to pull into the CAT scales. Now this picture is not the most recent but it shows you the general setup. I have played with all the setting since then. The truck combination rides very soft and comfortable. The only time it gets a bit bouncy is on cement roads with dividers.

Here are the final weights loaded ie. Full propane, approx 30 gallons of water, empty waste tanks and provisions for 5 people.

Steer axle 3480lb
Drive axle 4560lb
Trailer axles 8000lb

Gross weight 16040lb

I have to confess that with the high tongue weight of my trailer it was necessary to go back to the 1000lb bars to get the weights correct. I did however remove the overload springs so it wouldnt beat up the trailer.

Vinnie
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Big day out with the Airstream 002.jpg
Views:	73
Size:	339.3 KB
ID:	82656  
__________________
"Old fashioned service on your late model Airstream"

https://www.facebook.com/VinniesNort...ir?ref=tn_tnmn
Airslide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2009, 11:44 PM   #134
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlamica View Post
I was on the road this week and decided it was time to pull into the CAT scales. Now this picture is not the most recent but it shows you the general setup. I have played with all the setting since then. The truck combination rides very soft and comfortable. The only time it gets a bit bouncy is on cement roads with dividers.

Here are the final weights loaded ie. Full propane, approx 30 gallons of water, empty waste tanks and provisions for 5 people.

Steer axle 3480lb
Drive axle 4560lb
Trailer axles 8000lb

Gross weight 16040lb

I have to confess that with the high tongue weight of my trailer it was necessary to go back to the 1000lb bars to get the weights correct. I did however remove the overload springs so it wouldnt beat up the trailer.

Vinnie
Vinnie.

Your weights are close.

Total tow vehicle weight, from your numbers is 8040 pounds.

The rear axle weight should not be more than 10 percent greater of that weight greater than the front axle, or 804 pounds.

Your weights show 1080 difference.

Try moving a little more weight to the front axle.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 12:33 AM   #135
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,268
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 51
Confused or Conflict.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Vinnie.

Your weights are close.

Total tow vehicle weight, from your numbers is 8040 pounds.

The rear axle weight should not be more than 10 percent greater of that weight greater than the front axle, or 804 pounds.

Your weights show 1080 difference.

Try moving a little more weight to the front axle.

Andy
Hi, Andy. On the heavier rated trucks [3/4 & 1 ton] you say to use lighter spring bars. [600 lbs, 800 lbs Etc] Vinnie has 1000 lb bars and you say he needs to transfer more weight to the front axle of his truck. So does he need 1200 lb bars to do this? I don't see how [example] a 600 lb spring bar can transfer any weight to the front axle of a one ton truck.
__________________
Bob

2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent"
[ Small Silver Castle ]
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 01:47 AM   #136
Rivet Master
 
VIKING's Avatar
 
1955 22' Flying Cloud
Boulder Creek , California
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,177
If I understand this correctly the weight of the spring bars is not what determines how much weight is transfered from the drive axle to the steering axle, it's how many chain links you pull up on your WD bars when you cinch them up.
The bars are supposed to flex to keep the trailer from getting beat to crap by the TV going over bumps etc. A lighter weight bar will provide a more forgiving ride to the trailer in relation to the heavy-duty truck suspension.
Do I have this right?

My Safari came to me with #1000 bars, and a crack above the curbside front jalousie window, missing rivets, loose upper cabinets, a misaligned door, etc.
I now know why.

Any one want to trade some used #1000 bars for some #600's?

Rich
__________________
VIKING is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 02:34 AM   #137
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,268
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIKING View Post
If I understand this correctly the weight of the spring bars is not what determines how much weight is transfered from the drive axle to the steering axle, it's how many chain links you pull up on your WD bars when you cinch them up.
Rich

Hi, it is the leverage from the spring bars lifting from the pivot point [your hitch head] to push down on the front of the tow vehicle. You can only adjust or link up so much and if the bars are too weak or too flexible it won't be enough; Therefore you will need heavier rated spring bars to transfer the weight to the front. Then as per Andy you will be over hitched. So why have spring bars at all on 3/4 and 1 ton tow vehicles if you can't have them strong enough to transfer the weight to the front axle?
__________________
Bob

2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent"
[ Small Silver Castle ]
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 03:31 AM   #138
Rivet Master
 
VIKING's Avatar
 
1955 22' Flying Cloud
Boulder Creek , California
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,177
Okay then, If You have a tongue weight of, say #500 and your bars are rated at #600, I would guess that you could safely transfer half of the tongue weight to the front wheels (#250) which should level your vehicle.
With a heavier Or lighter TV you would still want to transfer only 1/2 of the tongue weight to the front wheels. Even on a heavy trailer you would have say #800 tongue weight, you would only transfer #400 to the front wheels. It seems that #600 bars would be sufficient for a wide range of combinations My #1000 bars would be required if I was Hauling a 28 to 34' trailer from what I gather here.
What would be the scenario where you couldn't level your TV?

Will #600 bars transfer #600 from the back wheels to the front, or half of that, or are they cut from a #600 chunk of steel, or was it 6:00 when they were painted? what does the rating really mean? They bend at #600?, they break at #600?

Curious
__________________
VIKING is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 07:23 AM   #139
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
bar ratings

Hitch torsion bars transfer weight.

The idea is two fold.

1. Transfer the weight, by proper installation and adjustment.

2. Maintain a soft ride for the trailer.

Just because the bars are lighter, doesn't mean you still can't transfer adequate weight.

As an example, lets have 700 pounds tongue weight. Now lets install 1400 pound bars.

Obviously that is "over hitching" and will beat the trailer to death. Therefore, the rating of the bar "MUST" be reduced.

Reduced to what, "IS" the question.

The rating is reduced so that you can do both number 1 and 2 above, "IS" the correct answer.

Again, proper ratings, proper installation and proper adjusments are the keys.

You may have a low rating bar, that's correct, but if the ball mount is not tilted rearward adequately, you will never be able to properly adjust the bars.

Moving weight, is often ignored, by those who really are not sure of how to tell what is correct.

Typically, when I walk around at a rally, I observe at least 50 percent of the rigs, that definitely, are "improperly" set up.

Simply looking at the ball mount lack of tilt, tells it all.

Remember the 3 propers.

1. Proper rating, means adequate but not excessive.

2. Proper installation, includes ball mount tilt.

3. Proper adjustment, which forces the bars to move weight. Make them bend. That's what they are for.

Or, use R, I and A.

R= rating.
I= installation.
A= adjustment

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 07:56 AM   #140
Rivet Master
 
richinny's Avatar
 
2011 34' Classic
Westchester Cty.NY , / Miami FL
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,122
as a newbie to weight distribution hitches it took a while for me to understand what the ball tilt has to do with anything. the answer to me was that the angle of the ball doesn't "do" anything. the ball tilt indicates the head angle which alters the angle that the bars start to transfer the weight up front. if the bars start tensioning too close to the trailer, they will run out of room to travel before being fully loaded.

i think the logic is that it is better to have a fully tensioned 600 lb. bar than a slightly tensioned 1000 lb. bar.

i think that's right. please tell me if it's not right.
__________________

__________________
Ricky
2012 F150 Super Crew 5-1/2' bed Ecoboost 4x4 3.73 elec. lock diff. Propride hitch
give life. kidney & pancreas transplant 9/9/06
Ingrid-my unofficial '"World's Oldest Streamer" 1909-2008 R.I.P.
richinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MPG difference between towing and not-towing? yiesyisyeno Tow Vehicles 11 09-01-2008 03:35 PM
No towing for me. lendoyle Member Introductions 3 08-30-2006 10:22 AM
Towing philipl411 Classic Motorhomes 1 07-14-2005 01:02 AM
Towing - 1965 65trotter 1965 - 1969 Globetrotter 9 08-10-2003 10:19 AM
Good towing/Bad towing! ViewRVs Hitches, Couplers & Balls 5 03-09-2003 08:37 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.