Andy, I’m having a hard time with your ‘torsion bar rating vs. tow vehicle suspension’ recommendations... that is, the heavier the suspension, the lighter the torsion bars. I put about 8,000 miles on my 2008 30’ S/O + 2005 Suburban 2500 using an Equal-I-zer 12,000/1,200 hitch-- which you would consider ‘over-hitched’. However, I was not able to get any appreciable weight transfer to the steer axle (best case was -200lbs from baseline). This created a *very* twitchy towing experience- ‘floating front end’ syndrome. Would not lighter torsion bars exacerbate this problem?
I eventually went to The Arrow 14,000/1,400 and have excellent weight distribution.
I think there is some merit, however, to punishing a trailer with a ‘cement truck’ suspension... I towed same trailer, for a bit, with a single rear wheel dodge CTD 3500. I think they offer a kidney belt option with this monster. The ride was bone jarring, and I noticed some unusual coincidences? Front sofa anchor bolts stripped out... fire extinguisher stripped out of wall... all drawers would be out of cabinets, scattered on floor.. sink covers on floor (none of this ever happened with ‘burb and Arrow)
IMHO, I think 85MH325 hit it on the head when he stated there are simply too many variables/combinations for a blanket “over-hitching” statement.
Andy, I’m having a hard time with your ‘torsion bar rating vs. tow vehicle suspension’ recommendations... that is, the heavier the suspension, the lighter the torsion bars. I put about 8,000 miles on my 2008 30’ S/O + 2005 Suburban 2500 using an Equal-I-zer 12,000/1,200 hitch-- which you would consider ‘over-hitched’. However, I was not able to get any appreciable weight transfer to the steer axle (best case was -200lbs from baseline). This created a *very* twitchy towing experience- ‘floating front end’ syndrome. Would not lighter torsion bars exacerbate this problem?
I eventually went to The Arrow 14,000/1,400 and have excellent weight distribution.
I think there is some merit, however, to punishing a trailer with a ‘cement truck’ suspension... I towed same trailer, for a bit, with a single rear wheel dodge CTD 3500. I think they offer a kidney belt option with this monster. The ride was bone jarring, and I noticed some unusual coincidences? Front sofa anchor bolts stripped out... fire extinguisher stripped out of wall... all drawers would be out of cabinets, scattered on floor.. sink covers on floor (none of this ever happened with ‘burb and Arrow)
IMHO, I think 85MH325 hit it on the head when he stated there are simply too many variables/combinations for a blanket “over-hitching” statement.
Until someone has taken the time and effort, as well as the expense, to offer a better "rule of thumb" than I have posted, then in all fairness, I must respectfully stay with my offers and suggestions.
As of this time, I am not aware of anyone offering a "better method," but several have offered "I am wrong" suggestions and statements.
It's all to easy to tell someone that what they have published is wrong, but the same people have not offered anything better.
I strive to be helpful, but if someone disagrees, so be it.
But again, I am "wide open" to a better rule of thumb, and not just an opinion.
Thanks to all that are pleased that have made the changes.
If someone chooses to submit what they have is great and why, then so be it, too.
I was on the road this week and decided it was time to pull into the CAT scales. Now this picture is not the most recent but it shows you the general setup. I have played with all the setting since then. The truck combination rides very soft and comfortable. The only time it gets a bit bouncy is on cement roads with dividers.
Here are the final weights loaded ie. Full propane, approx 30 gallons of water, empty waste tanks and provisions for 5 people.
I have to confess that with the high tongue weight of my trailer it was necessary to go back to the 1000lb bars to get the weights correct. I did however remove the overload springs so it wouldnt beat up the trailer.
I was on the road this week and decided it was time to pull into the CAT scales. Now this picture is not the most recent but it shows you the general setup. I have played with all the setting since then. The truck combination rides very soft and comfortable. The only time it gets a bit bouncy is on cement roads with dividers.
Here are the final weights loaded ie. Full propane, approx 30 gallons of water, empty waste tanks and provisions for 5 people.
I have to confess that with the high tongue weight of my trailer it was necessary to go back to the 1000lb bars to get the weights correct. I did however remove the overload springs so it wouldnt beat up the trailer.
Vinnie
Vinnie.
Your weights are close.
Total tow vehicle weight, from your numbers is 8040 pounds.
The rear axle weight should not be more than 10 percent greater of that weight greater than the front axle, or 804 pounds.
Your weights show 1080 difference.
Try moving a little more weight to the front axle.
Total tow vehicle weight, from your numbers is 8040 pounds.
The rear axle weight should not be more than 10 percent greater of that weight greater than the front axle, or 804 pounds.
Your weights show 1080 difference.
Try moving a little more weight to the front axle.
Andy
Hi, Andy. On the heavier rated trucks [3/4 & 1 ton] you say to use lighter spring bars. [600 lbs, 800 lbs Etc] Vinnie has 1000 lb bars and you say he needs to transfer more weight to the front axle of his truck. So does he need 1200 lb bars to do this? I don't see how [example] a 600 lb spring bar can transfer any weight to the front axle of a one ton truck.
If I understand this correctly the weight of the spring bars is not what determines how much weight is transfered from the drive axle to the steering axle, it's how many chain links you pull up on your WD bars when you cinch them up.
The bars are supposed to flex to keep the trailer from getting beat to crap by the TV going over bumps etc. A lighter weight bar will provide a more forgiving ride to the trailer in relation to the heavy-duty truck suspension.
Do I have this right?
My Safari came to me with #1000 bars, and a crack above the curbside front jalousie window, missing rivets, loose upper cabinets, a misaligned door, etc.
I now know why.
Any one want to trade some used #1000 bars for some #600's?
If I understand this correctly the weight of the spring bars is not what determines how much weight is transfered from the drive axle to the steering axle, it's how many chain links you pull up on your WD bars when you cinch them up.
Rich
Hi, it is the leverage from the spring bars lifting from the pivot point [your hitch head] to push down on the front of the tow vehicle. You can only adjust or link up so much and if the bars are too weak or too flexible it won't be enough; Therefore you will need heavier rated spring bars to transfer the weight to the front. Then as per Andy you will be over hitched. So why have spring bars at all on 3/4 and 1 ton tow vehicles if you can't have them strong enough to transfer the weight to the front axle?
Okay then, If You have a tongue weight of, say #500 and your bars are rated at #600, I would guess that you could safely transfer half of the tongue weight to the front wheels (#250) which should level your vehicle.
With a heavier Or lighter TV you would still want to transfer only 1/2 of the tongue weight to the front wheels. Even on a heavy trailer you would have say #800 tongue weight, you would only transfer #400 to the front wheels. It seems that #600 bars would be sufficient for a wide range of combinations My #1000 bars would be required if I was Hauling a 28 to 34' trailer from what I gather here.
What would be the scenario where you couldn't level your TV?
Will #600 bars transfer #600 from the back wheels to the front, or half of that, or are they cut from a #600 chunk of steel, or was it 6:00 when they were painted? what does the rating really mean? They bend at #600?, they break at #600?
1. Transfer the weight, by proper installation and adjustment.
2. Maintain a soft ride for the trailer.
Just because the bars are lighter, doesn't mean you still can't transfer adequate weight.
As an example, lets have 700 pounds tongue weight. Now lets install 1400 pound bars.
Obviously that is "over hitching" and will beat the trailer to death. Therefore, the rating of the bar "MUST" be reduced.
Reduced to what, "IS" the question.
The rating is reduced so that you can do both number 1 and 2 above, "IS" the correct answer.
Again, proper ratings, proper installation and proper adjusments are the keys.
You may have a low rating bar, that's correct, but if the ball mount is not tilted rearward adequately, you will never be able to properly adjust the bars.
Moving weight, is often ignored, by those who really are not sure of how to tell what is correct.
Typically, when I walk around at a rally, I observe at least 50 percent of the rigs, that definitely, are "improperly" set up.
Simply looking at the ball mount lack of tilt, tells it all.
Remember the 3 propers.
1. Proper rating, means adequate but not excessive.
2. Proper installation, includes ball mount tilt.
3. Proper adjustment, which forces the bars to move weight. Make them bend. That's what they are for.
as a newbie to weight distribution hitches it took a while for me to understand what the ball tilt has to do with anything. the answer to me was that the angle of the ball doesn't "do" anything. the ball tilt indicates the head angle which alters the angle that the bars start to transfer the weight up front. if the bars start tensioning too close to the trailer, they will run out of room to travel before being fully loaded.
i think the logic is that it is better to have a fully tensioned 600 lb. bar than a slightly tensioned 1000 lb. bar.
i think that's right. please tell me if it's not right.
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Hi, Andy. On the heavier rated trucks [3/4 & 1 ton] you say to use lighter spring bars. [600 lbs, 800 lbs Etc] Vinnie has 1000 lb bars and you say he needs to transfer more weight to the front axle of his truck. So does he need 1200 lb bars to do this? I don't see how [example] a 600 lb spring bar can transfer any weight to the front axle of a one ton truck.
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