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Old 10-05-2014, 05:50 PM   #1009
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31/32" perhaps a little less.
If you don't have that much, I would call Rock Tamers and talk with them. They're very nice people and may have dealt with this before.

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Old 10-05-2014, 05:57 PM   #1010
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Pharm do you have any bit of the vertical PP hitch shaft extending above the head of the receiver? If so you can still mount the RT's. And you may have enough room on the receiver shaft. On the GMC's, 2500 series, the 2 inch adapter has a flared head and it is just enough that the RT's won't fit on the receiver shaft.

Mine looks like this

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Old 10-05-2014, 06:00 PM   #1011
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Ghaynes - yep - I have that vertical bit - plenty it seems - going to measure it tomorrow - I'll def call rock tamers folks and verify all before ordering - thanks for the detailed info and pics you all!!


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Old 10-05-2014, 06:05 PM   #1012
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Matter of fact - quite sure I got more of that vertical than that


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Old 10-06-2014, 03:27 PM   #1013
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Finally had my first tow with the PP bringing the trailer home from Virginia Highland Haven for the season. Towed great, ride in the cab of the truck was fantastic. However when I went inside the trailer at home, it was clear the trailer had a much rougher ride than being towed "naked" ( no WD) on my old 1 ton DRW. What puzzles me is how the trailer could be beat up even though the ride in the new truck (2014 Ram 2500) with the PP was much softer than the old truck (2005 Ram 3500 DRW. I used 5" of lift on the jacks and everything is level and looks picture perfect.

any ideas?


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Old 10-06-2014, 07:41 PM   #1014
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Did you have full fresh water tank? If empty, the trailer could ride more stiffly... especially if you have the 1400# WD bars. Just a couple of thoughts..
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Old 10-06-2014, 07:49 PM   #1015
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I have the same truck as you, though I'm pulling a 28' Intl CCD (heavier trailer), and it has 950 lbs on the tongue. I use 5 1/2" lift on my jacks unless everything is full, then I go up to 6. I run on 16" wheels and Michelin LT's. I've found that 65 pounds of air in the tires seems ideal. If you're using GYM's you don't have much choice but to use a lot higher pressure, and that can make for a rough ride...
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:13 PM   #1016
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Full tank, 1000# bars. I talked with Sean this evening and he suggested reducing the bar tension. While I understand that too much torsion in the bars could stiffen the ride, I am confused on why my rig would require so much less tension.


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Old 10-06-2014, 08:21 PM   #1017
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I have the same truck as you, though I'm pulling a 28' Intl CCD (heavier trailer), and it has 950 lbs on the tongue. I use 5 1/2" lift on my jacks unless everything is full, then I go up to 6. I run on 16" wheels and Michelin LT's. I've found that 65 pounds of air in the tires seems ideal. If you're using GYM's you don't have much choice but to use a lot higher pressure, and that can make for a rough ride...

I also have 16" and Michelins at 70 psi. My measured tongue weight is 825 lbs.

I guess the tongue weight must be the variable.


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Old 10-06-2014, 09:23 PM   #1018
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Keith time to go to the CAT scales and weigh everything so that you can dial in the ProPride. Do a search on Ron Gratz and follow his three step plan. You can plug the data into this spreadsheet that I built based on Ron's steps and math. Also see the post at http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...ml#post1521330

1_Cat Calc Sierra 2500 7-23-14.xlsx
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Old 10-06-2014, 09:26 PM   #1019
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I also have 16" and Michelins at 70 psi. My measured tongue weight is 825 lbs.

I guess the tongue weight must be the variable.

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My 'tongue weight' is right at 10% of the trailer weight.. on our 34'.. this is a great spot to be.. but, with the PP, if you reduce the load on the WD's it can/does throw other adjustments off.

I can raise/lower the front of the AS by increasing/decreasing the WD adjustment. I run on the 'center' hole of the adjusting bars. I have run at 4.5 to 6 inches on the "BAL adjusters"... but, with a full load on TV and in the AS (minus a weeks worth of food), things run smoothly.

Was your AS off the tires during storage? If not, the tires may have 'flat spotted' and could shake the AS a LOT... What are your tires and Pressures? There are a lot of things to consider... but, all in all, the AS seems to like the PP... I put my iPhone on 'video record' and towed before/after with the EzyLift and after install of PP.. and actually sounded quieter with the PP...

We also installed Centramatics and new tires... which were carefully balanced... and things finally 'settled' down... we don't get a lot of 'movement' inside now.

We don't tow over 65.. and usually run about 60-62... did you vary your speed/takeoff/stopping process over previous TV?

Our PP has the 1400# bars... which should yield a 'harsher' ride if not working properly.. but I haven't seen that.

What I did notice.. is that setting of the Stinger on the hitch was very crucial... and my hitch location, although concrete, is sloped for water control... so I do not have the best place to measure... to resolve this, I took the truck and trailer to a better spot and unhitched. I made the measurements in this 'static' location. I returned home and repeated the process. This gave me a 'delta'/variance to factor in of about 1.5"...I used those numbers on the 'measurements' you take using Sean's procedure and the AS ran straighter and more level....

As for the 'weight transfer', I used the BAL adjusters to 'transfer' an appropriate 'squat' on the TV.. same front/rear. So, when I am about to 'hook up', I measure front and rear of TV then crank up the BAL adjuster to 5"...and the 'squat' is right on the money. The AS runs a slightly 'nose high' attitude of 1.5 degrees, or about 3/8 " higher at the front of the AS Beltline than the rear... or about 3/16 over the 34'.

Sorry if this is a ramble.. but, recheck your hookup on the new TV... just to be sure things are running as you set them to...

Let us know....
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Old 10-07-2014, 06:15 AM   #1020
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In no particular order ...

While the tires could have been flat-spotted, previous experience suggests it is not a likely cause. If I was still running GYM's, yes, but the Michelin 16" MT's (on both the trailer and my previous truck) have never done that in several years. Several of the folks up at VHH also have 16" Michelins on trailers that sit there all season and no one has mentioned having a tire problem because of it. Good suggestion, but that is personally somewhat down on the list of likely suspects.

I knew it was a matter of time before the scale ticket discussion came up, and while I completely support the importance of attention to weight distribution when using 1/2 ton vehicles (or worse) to tow medium-to-large trailers, my own experience (as well as others I have talked to) indicate that achieving exact weight restoration with 3/4 and 1 ton diesel trucks with relatively lightweight trailers (Airstreams) is far less critical. Diesel trucks have a much higher front axle load due to the weight of the engines (especially so for the Ram - the Cummins motor is heavier than the aluminum Ford PS or GM Dmax) and the tongue weight of the average Airstream just doesn't make that much of a difference to the driving dynamics of a vehicle that is rated for 6000-7000# per axle with more than 50% of the unloaded curb weight already on the front axle due to the Cummins motor (a huge cast iron assembly).

I drove a 3500 DRW Ram for years with this trailer and no WD or sway control, and never experienced any issues even in stiff crosswinds, evasive maneuvers, sudden stops & high speed semi passings in spite of the rear suspension being visibly lowered by the tongue weight of the trailer. I am NOT trying to start a safety/scale religious war in this thread (plenty of those already here), but I (and Sean, BTW) just don't believe a 200-300# difference in axle loading on a 10,000# GVWR nose-heavy vehicle has any real world significance. If you are towing a 34' AS with a 1500/150, thats a different story.

Sean's recommendation was to tune the WD bars preload based on ride, not by scale tickets given my specific trailer and tow vehicle and that is my first course of action. It is interesting that both my observation and Sean's unprompted comment was that the bar tension makes relatively little difference in the height of the nose of the trailer - this just confirms my belief that transferring the few hundred pounds into the TV doesn't make much of a difference. After all, we are talking less than a 10% difference in the front axle weight between no WD and complete weight restoration.

I bought the PP for sway control as I was not willing to take the chance that the shorter wheelbase (old truck was a longbed, new truck is a shortbed) SRW vehicle would replicate the performance I got with no WD/SC on the old rig, especially since I was going to tow the trailer home 700 miles first time.

I'll report back my findings with reduced preload but it will be a while. We had a lot of rain this fall in FL and my back yard is pretty soft where I pull the trailer through from the pole barn it is stored under. I already have a lot of ruts from parking it yesterday after towing it home, so I want the ground to dry out more before taking some test runs to fine tune the bars.

My plan is to first check the ride height/attitude with no tension on the bars to confirm in my mind that 1100# (tongue weight+hitch weight) is not a problem for the truck and then find the lightest bar tension that does not yield "porpoising", which Sean says is the result of too little bar tension.

The one thing that still confounds me is how the ride at the trailer can be so much stiffer when the ride in the TV is so much better. It would seem that the rigid coupling (compared to no WD) would transfer shock in both directions, which certainly was my experience on the old truck - the ride towing was worse than unloaded until I added an AirSafe hitch. The ride with the new Ram & PP hitch is at least as good as the old truck with the AirSafe, if not better. Puzzling, at least to me.
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Old 10-07-2014, 06:25 AM   #1021
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Oh - just to answer any outstanding questions about the setup ...

Trailer - 2005 25' Safari SE (aka Flying Cloud)
16" wheels, Michelin MT tires @ 70 psi cold
Loaded weight approx 6800# (I need to reduce the trailer tire pressure probably)
measured tongue weight via Shurline scale - 850# loaded for travel

Current tow vehicle - 2014 Ram 2500 diesel, crew cab, shortbed, 4x4, factory 20" wheels/tires. 70/75 psi font/rear.

Previous TV - 2005 Ram 3500 diesel, crew cab, longbed, 4x2, 17" wheels. 70/75 psi front/rear.

1000# bars on the ProPride, per Sean's recommendation.

Trailer rides level with just a hint of nose down, yoke is parallel to from, bars parallel to frame when tensions with a hint of curvature. Truck rear ride height is slightly above level, minimal change in front ride height (less than 1/2" difference).
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:27 AM   #1022
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.................................................. .........

Sean's recommendation was to tune the WD bars preload based on ride, not by scale tickets given my specific trailer and tow vehicle and that is my first course of action.
.............................................
I am glad to hear that, because that is the system I arrived at on my own. Over time I have arrived at a system that consistently will result in a comfortable ride in the TV and apparently also in the trailer judging from objects staying place.

My TV is similar to yours (3/4 ton short bed, quad cab, diesel Dodge). Mine is 4x4. My trailer is longer and heavier. I have 1400# bars, I use the crank that Airstream supplies for the stabilizing pads to raise and lower the WD jacks. I count the number of turns on the crank rather than measuring the amount of jack raised in inches. After experimenting I found for my particular setup, that 40 turns (each side) is the best place to start for the trailer empty, and 43 is the best for it fully loaded for camping. That is a pretty narrow range considering we carry a lot of stuff when we camp. The TV bed has a fiberglass canopy (shell, topper, cap, etc) When camping it is usually fairly well loaded, with heavy items in the front of bed.

When we first start out for the day, I look for a fairly smooth ride, porpoising, or jolting. We generally drive a few miles (as many as ten) before we make any adjustments. If I am not happy with the ride, we pull over and I crank the jack up (for porpoising) or down for jolting. 2 or 3 turns is usually sufficient to find the sweet spot. That is a pretty narrow range if you thing about the total number of turns we start with. So a lot of trial and error may go into finding the initial starting points and once found it takes very few turns to get out of it.

Of course none of this will compensate for rough poorly maintained roads (Arizona) or highways that were apparently poured without expansion joints causing a sharp ridge at each joint (Iowa)

Hope this gives you some hope

Ken
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