The unofficial pp users guide...

[ghaynes755]

Alan

1. PP stinger was in the truck.
2. It is 50%. Front axle truck only, 3440. Hooked up with no WD tension, 2960. 50% of the delta is 240# so target would be 3200#. Actual with jacks at 7 inches is 3240#.

[m.hony]

So-
Cat scales indicates in 20# increments-
I reckon that's close enough for gubment work!

[SteveSueMac]

As you raise the jacks you also put some weight on the trailer axle. I don't know how much more you'd get with one more inch - maybe 60-80#? With the 1400# bars you should be able to move more if you like.

Other than wife and dog, what else are you missing to be "fully loaded" for camping? You may also have too much stuff in your trailer or truck - less is usually more.

Last, you may have some items in your trailer that you could move further away from your truck (behind the axle) to lighten the tongue a bit.

Thanks for the pic of the spreadsheet. Ron is a bit of a genius in my view - he was VERY helpful as I was working through my numbers.

[ghaynes755]

Steve

Only items in the trailer were misc tools in the front storage area, dump tools and hoses in the back compartment. Partial fill on Propane (45# vs full 60#). Truck bed empty. Just me and a full tank of gas.

I can see the transfer to the trailer going from 7 inches down to 5 inches.

The advertised tongue weight from AS is 830# and with about 200# of PP hitch the 1080 calculated tongue weight seems to be on target.

[Alphonse]

Originally Posted by ghaynes755

Alan

1. PP stinger was in the truck.
2. It is 50%. Front axle truck only, 3440. Hooked up with no WD tension, 2960. 50% of the delta is 240# so target would be 3200#. Actual with jacks at 7 inches is 3240#.

So here are my observations:
1. the tongue weight is 1080 plus the weight of the stinger. Unfortunately the stinger counts too and the way you captured the weight, it was left out. So depending on the tongue weight capacity spec. for your hitch, you may be over by a significant percentage.
2. Back to your original question - yes, you are pretty much limited out on the trucks rear axle (therefore cargo capacity) and you will need to be careful about carrying too much additional weight as cargo in the truck.

Both of these are the dilemma of the 1/2 ton truck unless you are comfortable in exceeding the specs.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by ghaynes755

My take away is that my 2014 GMC Sierra 1500 is maxed out, both with weight and axle limits. Weights were with full fuel, full fresh water, waste tanks empty, some but not all of our gear in the trailer and the truck bed empty. Wife and dog were not included.

Well, I think your take away is correct (and I realize some would say there's probably more headroom there than GM gives in published numbers). But you're already at GVWR for your truck and you're not yet fully loaded for camping.

You could try 8" on the jacks and while that might move some weight to the trailer, it doesn't appear to be enough to compensate for loading up for camping.

You're not so far over - but where do you draw the line? 1 pound? 10? 100? 1000?

This is a tough one. For me (an admitted rule-abider when it comes to towing), I'd consider a different tow vehicle. Other here will think I'm crazy (and probably not only for that opinion :-/
:-) )

I would recommend a PM to Ron G at this point. He found some stuff in my numbers I didn't see first time around (including a spot on guess at my (personal) weight based on my tickets - yikes! ).

Good luck!

[Ag&Au]

Gary,

Here is my perspective, which I expect many to to disagree with.

Although all of this number crunching and scale munching is very interesting to see the effects of various changes and adjustments, if the end result is to convince you need a new tow vehicle, that would to me be a sad thing. I see absolutely no reason that a modern 1/2 ton truck should not safely tow a 25 foot airstream with a ProPride hitch.

If I were you (and I recognize we are all different) I would call this a worthwhile experience and proceed with adjusting the hitch so that the truck and trailer both ride in a level manner. Then take it out and enjoy it. There is so much controversy these day about what all these various ratings really mean that actual experience would be of more value. I also would suggest that you start another thread and solicit others experiences with a 25 foot Airsteam and 1/2 ton truck. There are probably a lot of people who have useful opinions who don't follow this thread.

If you would like someone else to look at your set up feel free to send me a PM, I'm not that far away.

Ken

[SteveSueMac]

Actually Ken - it's hard to disagree with your view as well. I feel stooopoopid recommending a rethink on that truck. It makes no sense except that the GVWR is exceeded and not yet fully loaded for camping.

It doesn't add up. But if those are the numbers, my bias is to live within them. Everyone's mileage can vary...

[ghaynes755]

Ken the towing and handling is fine. While the hills of Pennsylvania aren't the Rockies it stayed at 60 most of the time. Found that 60mph was better speed than 65, about 15% increase in MPG. So I am surprised that I ran out of weight. Interesting that I did a CAT ticket after I bought it. Weights Fr/Rear were 3460/2520. Those numbers also line up with the PP setup taking into account adding 1200# on the rear.

[dkottum]

I agree with Ken. We tow the same Airstream as Gary using a 1500 Ram and ProPride hitch.

Some questions looking for a clue to the problem. Are you sure you have 1400# w.d. bars? What is the wheelbase of the truck? Has the truck had any suspension or wheel/tire modifications? Are the headlights aimed properly at night with the Airstream in tow? Is the trailer level and the truck near level with w.d applied? Are the w.d bars level or high or low at the back with w.d. applied? Is the truck hitch receiver flexing when you tighten the bars? Would you have a photo of them hooked up?

[Ag&Au]

I don't know anything about CAT scales, but I wonder if there is any question about accuracy when used below the range they are optimized for.

Ken

[J. Morgan]

Frankly, if it was my unit and it drives good and stable, and your tires are rated for their load I would never think about the ratings again.

[J. Morgan]

Cat scales will weigh in either ten or twenty pound increments, which means they will weigh to the closest five or ten pounds respectively .

These scales are capable of weighing that closely , and when properly calibrated they will, throughout their range from zero to capacity.

The variance for certification is very small, a twenty or thirty pound variance overall from balls on, (at about 60000lbs), is sufficient to place the scale out of service and/or mandatory servicing in most states.

The variance allowed is a percentage of the test weight on the scale, so pound for pound, there is less tolerance for error at lower weight than higher weights.

[ghaynes755]

Doug

Some questions looking for a clue to the problem. Are you sure you have 1400# w.d. bars? Yes
What is the wheelbase of the truck? 143.5"
Has the truck had any suspension or wheel/tire modifications? No
Are the headlights aimed properly at night with the Airstream in tow? Slightly high, measuring front wheel opening I am 1/4-1/2 high hooked up.
Is the trailer level and the truck near level with w.d applied? Yes
Are the w.d bars level or high or low at the back with w.d. applied? The are pulled up. See photo.
Is the truck hitch receiver flexing when you tighten the bars? No
Would you have a photo of them hooked up? Attached.

Doug would you have a weight ticket you could share for your setup?

Also I have shared the photos and weight data with Sean. His conclusion like mine is that the truck is maxed out and that the setup looks correct and normal.

[dznf0g]

Gary, Might I suggest a bit more downward tilt of the stinger to take up the slop of the receiver? I like to have the stinger tip and the swing arms between the hitch box and head parallel to the trailer frame and ground while hitched and the spring bars under flex. A vertical placement of the portion of the stinger (with the holes) is also a visual check to levelness of the setup. Based on what I see, I would try 2 more washers.

[dkottum]

Gary, your truck looks slightly low in the back to me while the trailer is level. The hitch head and w.d. bars appear tilted up compared to ours. I am also new to ProPride but when we apply the w.d the truck returns close to original attitude (slightly higher in back) with the trailer level.

Our truck is 120" wheelbase reg cab, we travel with very little gear in the truck. If we had a heavy duty truck we would still travel with very little gear in the truck, so I don't consider that a limitation. Never have seen reason to weigh it.

As for the truck "maxed out", that is up to you. I'm sure you will get agreement and a recommendation for a heavy duty truck forthcoming.

Although Sean is most surely the expert, I wonder if tilting the hitch head down would transfer more weight, and resetting the drop bar height to bring the trailer to level if it does?

[dznf0g]

Good catch, Doug. If there were more tilt it would certainly help the low truck, if the bars were cinched to their present height. Pictures are hard to see all, but I think dropping the stinger to the next hole (1 1/4") might be too much drop. He might be in a tweener situation. Only the measurin' stick will tell.

[ghaynes755]

Front/Rear wheel wells measure 36.25/36 inches when hooked up. Unloaded 36/38.25 inches.

[dkottum]

Weights and measurements indicate to me (and I'm certainly no expert) not enough weight distribution is applied or possible without some head tilt (more washers) and repositioning of the draw bar to keep the trailer level.

It will probably tow just fine as it is, but I don't like the loss of traction and steering "feel" when the front axle is lightened and I come onto damp road surfaces in misty or rainy weather.

[ghaynes755]

Doug when you say add more washers which direction do you want the stinger tip to move? Up or down towards the road? Unloaded it has a slight up tilt. Under load it is level to the ground.