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Old 10-28-2012, 08:56 PM   #533
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Thanks, but that is not my problem. Post #219 addresses the jacks, but I am talking about the U-bolts for the frame bracket that are directly under the propane tanks. I'll take a photo when I next get to the storage yard.

My proposed fix for my problem would raise the tanks 1/2" and directly address the post #219 problem as a side effect.

BTW: I lived in Boulder, Longmont, and Carter Lake for some years before moving to Austin with IBM in 1981.
I can't believe I posted that. I composed it but had second thoughts. I reread your post and realized it was different problem. I guess I fumble fingered the button pushing. If you miss this area, I'll trade houses with you until March.

Ken
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:12 PM   #534
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I understand the confusion after looking at post #40 photos. You see, my trailer does not have a propane bottle rack like that shown in post #40. In my trailer, there are simply two loops of steel strip formed into circles and welded to the frame to locate the bottoms of the bottles. The bottles sit directly on the frame and on two steel tabs welded to the front of the storage box behind the bottles. Except for the frame and these tabs, there is nothing under the bottles.

Since my bottles sit directly on the frame, I'll go with my original plan which is putting 1/2" plywood under the bottles.

It is odd that Airstream should use two totally dissimilar designs for the bottle rack. Obviously the rack on my trailer is simpler and has no removable parts, nuts, screws, etc. It was painted right along with the A-frame.

I'll take some photos tomorrow.

I do miss Colorado, but my wife will NOT go where it snows.
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:19 PM   #535
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Everything went together easily this morning and a couple of test hookups using my backup camera went perfectly. I haven't towed yet since I ran out of time before meeting a friend for lunch. I did find that I will need to raise the stinger one more hole than the calculated setting to make the trailer ride level.

The only problem I have is that the U-bolts for the frame bracket are under the propane tanks and I will need a spacer of some sort to prevent wearing slots in the aluminum tanks. The tanks set right on the frame. My first thought is to cut two circles out of some scrap 1/2" marine plywood I have in the shop, mark the U-bolt location from underneath, and cut a slot with the sabre saw so that the circles will lie flat. The tanks will then be sitting on wood and not touch the U-bolts. How did others address this problem? If anyone has a magic solution I would be glad to hear it.

Hi, I am not sure how much clearance you need, but I have always used 1/2" automotive heater hose, split lengthwise....not so much for a clearance issue, but rather a protection from rubbing, chipping, and rusting of the frame. Worth a try.. maybe a thicker walled hosing?
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:35 PM   #536
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Originally Posted by Pahaska View Post
I understand the confusion after looking at post #40 photos. You see, my trailer does not have a propane bottle rack like that shown in post #40. In my trailer, there are simply two loops of steel strip formed into circles and welded to the frame to locate the bottoms of the bottles. The bottles sit directly on the frame and on two steel tabs welded to the front of the storage box behind the bottles. Except for the frame and these tabs, there is nothing under the bottles.

Since my bottles sit directly on the frame, I'll go with my original plan which is putting 1/2" plywood under the bottles.

It is odd that Airstream should use two totally dissimilar designs for the bottle rack. Obviously the rack on my trailer is simpler and has no removable parts, nuts, screws, etc. It was painted right along with the A-frame.

I'll take some photos tomorrow.

I do miss Colorado, but my wife will NOT go where it snows.
Unfortunately I can't use that for an excuse for being confused. My bottles are mounted exactly like yours. The only thing I can guess is mine are slightly closer to, or futher from the tongue. I am going by memory also because our trailer is in storage. I will go check in thenext day or two.

I agree with your wife. Snow is like a grizzly bear. It has its place in nature, but should not be commingled with humans.

Ken
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:30 AM   #537
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Here is my bottle mounting. I will cut out two 8" diameter disks of scrap 1/2" exterior plywood to fit in the loops and then cut a 1/4" pie slice out of each disk to clear the U-bolt. That should raise the bottles above the U-bolt very nicely.

Our first trip with the new hitch will be about 90 miles to a rally in about 10 days.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:04 AM   #538
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hmmm bottom of lp bottles?

My PP layout looks exactly like the photo in the above post (go figger) the bottom of my lp bottles have a flange and clear the u-bolts completely. Have you actually put the bottles on there? I know they come close, but the bottle sits directly on the frame and is held there with a threaded rod/wing nut (big momma wing nut). So I figured even if the flange touched the ubolt there would be no movement to cause any trouble. After my last trip, I noticed the ubolts have allowed the centering "frame bracket" to move to the road side. This is confusing me and I will investigate. I asked Sean if this "frame bracket" could be welded to the frame-his answer was yes, but welding it would take away some side-to-side movement of this bracket when backing. Like I said, I am still thinking about this. I will try to understand the forces and why bolting is preferable to welding.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:30 AM   #539
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Here is my bottle mounting. I will cut out two 8" diameter disks of scrap 1/2" exterior plywood to fit in the loops and then cut a 1/4" pie slice out of each disk to clear the U-bolt. That should raise the bottles above the U-bolt very nicely.

Our first trip with the new hitch will be about 90 miles to a rally in about 10 days.
My U-bolt installation looks just like yours, I did not install any kind of spacers, and my bottles do not hit the U-bolts.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:50 AM   #540
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Originally Posted by wmarsha View Post
My PP layout looks exactly like the photo in the above post (go figger) the bottom of my lp bottles have a flange and clear the u-bolts completely. Have you actually put the bottles on there? I know they come close, but the bottle sits directly on the frame and is held there with a threaded rod/wing nut (big momma wing nut). So I figured even if the flange touched the ubolt there would be no movement to cause any trouble. After my last trip, I noticed the ubolts have allowed the centering "frame bracket" to move to the road side. This is confusing me and I will investigate. I asked Sean if this "frame bracket" could be welded to the frame-his answer was yes, but welding it would take away some side-to-side movement of this bracket when backing. Like I said, I am still thinking about this. I will try to understand the forces and why bolting is preferable to welding.
First of all, my bottles sit as you describe with no interference.

Secondly, regarding the yoke movement here is a quote from post 232 in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by w7ts View Post

.................................................. ..................

I had the yoke move a couple of times when I first got the hitch. The only thing holding it in position left and right is the friction of the nuts and rectangular plate on the bottom side of the channel cross bar and the friction of the bar and the A frame.

This is what I did to hold the yoke in place:
I placed 1/2 in bolts up through the space remaining on the outside of the slot on both sides and placed a washer and nut on top. In my installation, the head of the bolt was just the correct width to rest against the edge of the plate on the bottom, and keep the bar from sliding either left or right.

This is not factory sanctioned, but works great for me.

Regards,

Ken
Ken
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:54 AM   #541
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My U-bolt installation looks just like yours, I did not install any kind of spacers, and my bottles do not hit the U-bolts.
Mine do hit the U-bolts just enough to concern me so I'll add my plywood spacer as insurance. That will also add a little clearance of the tank cover from riding on the wiring and on the jack bases.

I can't see where the frame bracket should move or should need to move when backing and still serve its function when towing.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:45 PM   #542
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Secondly, regarding the yoke movement here is a quote from post 232 in this thread.
Ken
I like the method described for keeping the yoke properly centered. Next time past Home Depot I'll pick up some appropriate hardware and do the same.
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:34 PM   #543
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Considering

I currently have a Valley WD hitch with 1000# bars (trunnion bars). I have read every post in this thread and am seriously considering the PP. I have a few questions that I would like to get answered first.
1. Since the PP hangs down below the coupler and the weight bars on the PP insert from the bottom unlike my trunnion bars it appears that I will lose a lot of ground clearance. I did not see any comments regarding clearance in this thread but has anyone experienced high centering problems?
2. Where I store my TT is on a flat, level surface. However my TV is at an angle (about 10-15 degrees) downhill from the TT when I am hitching. Will this present a problem hooking up with the PP?
Great info on this forum.
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:41 PM   #544
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1. Since the PP hangs down below the coupler and the weight bars on the PP insert from the bottom unlike my trunnion bars it appears that I will lose a lot of ground clearance. I did not see any comments regarding clearance in this thread but has anyone experienced high centering problems?
2. Where I store my TT is on a flat, level surface. However my TV is at an angle (about 10-15 degrees) downhill from the TT when I am hitching. Will this present a problem hooking up with the PP?
Great info on this forum.
I have had the bottom of the bars scrape while entering/exiting driveways that have a steep angle, but it has not been a real problem. I do not take the 31 footer "off road".

An angle while either unhitching, or hitching can be a problem. The worst case I have expereinced was when the front of the tow vehicle was up, causing me to unhook the "U" bolts from the bars to raise the front of the hitch to get the draw bar to go in. Doesn't happen often, but when it does, it's a hastle.
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:35 PM   #545
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Frame Bracket

Ken, after I read your fix for the sliding yoke frame bracket, I planned to do the same fix. I have not had any problems with the frame bracket moving, but it still sounded like a good preventive move. I did not see any comment by Sean on this modification, so, I sent an email to Sean to see what his thoughts are on the modification before I do it. I thought it would be good to share his response.

From Sean: "That works but make sure you do not bump up against the stop in a tight reverse situation. The stop is the 1/4" plate on top of the main unit. When the hitch head rotates to 85 degrees the links will hit that stop. If you continue to push something has to give. Usually, the frame bracket will shift to the side and it is easy to reposition it. If you put the bolts in and push you will bend the yoke arm. It isn't common but just be aware of that if you are going to use bolts in the frame bracket."

Quote:
Originally Posted by w7ts View Post

I had the yoke move a couple of times when I first got the hitch. The only thing holding it in position left and right is the friction of the nuts and rectangular plate on the bottom side of the channel cross bar and the friction of the bar and the A frame.

This is what I did to hold the yoke in place:
I placed 1/2 in bolts up through the space remaining on the outside of the slot on both sides and placed a washer and nut on top. In my installation, the head of the bolt was just the correct width to rest against the edge of the plate on the bottom, and keep the bar from sliding either left or right.

This is not factory sanctioned, but works great for me.

Regards,

Ken
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:13 PM   #546
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hi guys/gals/users/friends/watchers/trolls and all the other brilLLliant screen pixels...

goofy home brewed tweaks offered for free from some cat with a mouse are not fixes.

they come from folks who want you to screw up your hitch like they have

based on the idea that lemmings in mass offer protection from the cliff drop...

IF the hitch needs a fix let the designer/builder/manufacturer create it.

force has got to go somewhere and the bracket/yoke/Ubolts as designed allow for that, when the USER takes the angles to the limit.

this is akin to the shear bolts used on the older faded orange design with struts.

haha users got the 'wise idea' that replacing shear bolts with higher grade hardware was a fix...

when all that did/does/dooo is result in the struts bending/breaking...

or in this design the yoke/bracket being damaged by extreme angle turns/backing.

leave the friggin bracket/U bolts/yoke-finger alone or at the most follow the design and set up.
_________

while raising the tanks via a wood shim (on classics) or raising the tank brackets with bolts/washers (safari/flying cloud) is ok...

and perhaps necessary on some trailer A frames or years/models...

those are trailer mods not a hitch mods...be very careful about using free advice to FIX the hitch...

it's not broken as designed.

there are pictures at the front end of this thread that show bracket/Ubolt placement on the classic A frame...

+/- .5 to 1 inch of placement on either side of the specified 25 inches from the cup will clear the tank bottoms on the classics.

still raising the tanks a bit does SOLVE the airstream design failure that allows the jack wiring to wear through and catch fire...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f353...fe-39545.html?

but that's not a PP problem it's an airstream issue

(current models finally come with the keyhole cut suggested HERE in that older thread linked above)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan guy View Post
...I have read every post in this thread and am seriously considering the PP. I have a few questions that I would like to get answered first.

1. Since the PP hangs down below the coupler and the weight bars on the PP insert from the bottom unlike my trunnion bars it appears that I will lose a lot of ground clearance. I did not see any comments regarding clearance in this thread but has anyone experienced high centering problems?
how'dee morgan guy, KUDOS for reading it all...you will like this contraption.

ask sean for the pp' discount ne1 who reads the entire thread and passes a simple 10 question test may get a discount*

while any low fruit may occasionally drag, clearance is not really an issue. the spare tire bracket hangs just as low at the w/d bars...

yes there are rare conditions which may get the w/d bars near the ground


(like a continuously sloping campsite with sufficient angle relative to trailer length)

for visual confirmation of clearance look at some of the early pix in this thread OR in the sticky at the top of this sub forum...

((some topics were intentionally NOT covered in this newer thread because they had been throughly addressed in the haha thread))

spend a bit of time there and you'll begin to see the commonality vs the unique or improved features on the ppz...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan guy View Post
...
2. Where I store my TT is on a flat, level surface. However my TV is at an angle (about 10-15 degrees) downhill from the TT when I am hitching. Will this present a problem hooking up with the PP?...
in situations where the TV and trailer r on different angles RIGHT AT the hitch junction hooking up is still simple...

one simply loosens/tightens/adjusts the the jacks which alters the hitch head angle to match the TV/stinger angle ...

doing this during DISconnect/UNhooking allows the TV/stinger to pop free from the trailer/hitch head angle...

now just LEAVE the hitch head at that smooth disconnect angle.

then on REconnects/HITCH up the proper angle will already be there...

again this is covered in multiple places in the sticky thread on the old orange contraption.

the process is basically the same on the PP but the improved design of the hitch box means hook up at angles is much much much easier now.
_______

for the girl scout who posted in frustration earlier...

towing, maintaining, inspecting for safety

and generally fiddling with trailers and vehicles and hitches is a learned skill set.

wanna travel by trailer? acquire, learn and use the skill set...it's all within reach for almost every1.

there is not much point in hashing over your weight readings from a vehicle that has been SOLD...

when you get a new rig post some data and folks will help.

i would also caution you (and others) about so called HELP provided via PMz,

it is 87.4% of the time provided by some1 with too little spine to put there words in the OPEN FORUM for scrutiny ...

sorta like a stock tip.

telling you that posting your TV model would have resulted in ridicule is total HORSEapples...

it's also not really all that hard to sort out using the w/d-spring bars to balance the axle/tire loads on the TV or trailer...

folks providing FORMULA and links to other forums and PHD sounding crap are looking for self importance via complications...

after all isn't the secret to buying/selling stocks (not trading options) simply to buy low and sell high?

so start by weighing the TV axles and make note of the FRONT (steering axle) reading...

the goal of adjusting the w/d/spring/jack bars (after adding the trailer) is to RESTORE the steering axle loads to that original scale value.

no formula required, just note the 'buy price' and try to sell at the same price and no less.

the tv does NOT need to be perfectly level, again horses are dropping those apples.

getting the trailer level is another issue and starts with properly setting up the stinger for height/drop...

again when you actually OWN a tow vehicle and workout hitching post some pix and help will come...

or find a smart smurf to cOpILot.

cheers
2air'

*not really a discount morgan guy, just playing with ya...
____________
\/ \/ \/ \/

((yeah guys i check in and read here from time2time but for the most part air forums has become an enormous waste of cyber space and time))

i do think some threads continue to be useful in spite of the vision and direction provided by the social nonsense network...

trick or treat!

((_((please don't send me any welcome back notes, i am not back))_))


post your trick or tread messages here please...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f161...th-18538.html?

now i am headed back to the candy bowl...

vaya con ayrestreema en hiya hoe slivaOsilver
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