The Equal-i-zer After Some Use - Report

[Gene]

The hitch head sockets are different sizes for different bars. The hitch head may also be different to fit the sockets. I've thought the same thing—buying lower weight rated bars—to reduce the bar weight rating, but I'd apparently have to buy the whole thing, or most of it. I wonder if it could done (use lower rated bars) using washers on the bolt inside the socket? I love washers, they fix so many things that don't fit.

It might be that heavier bars may provide more rotational friction even if the sockets are loose. This is a wild guess based on my two months as an engineering major.

Someone stopped here some time ago and her Reese had bent something. We tried to straighten it without a lot of success. We did break a pipe wrench trying to fix it, something I didn't think could be done. I didn't understand just how the Reese worked, but the system looked kind of screwy to me (ignorance makes for analysis such as "screwy") compared to the simplicity of the Equalizer system.

Now, does anyone know what the Equalizer 2 is and how it differs?

Gene

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

The hitch head sockets are different sizes for different bars. The hitch head may also be different to fit the sockets. I've thought the same thing—buying lower weight rated bars—to reduce the bar weight rating, but I'd apparently have to buy the whole thing, or most of it. I wonder if it could done (use lower rated bars) using washers on the bolt inside the socket? I love washers, they fix so many things that don't fit.

It might be that heavier bars may provide more rotational friction even if the sockets are loose. This is a wild guess based on my two months as an engineering major.

Someone stopped here some time ago and her Reese had bent something. We tried to straighten it without a lot of success. We did break a pipe wrench trying to fix it, something I didn't think could be done. I didn't understand just how the Reese worked, but the system looked kind of screwy to me (ignorance makes for analysis such as "screwy") compared to the simplicity of the Equalizer system.

Now, does anyone know what the Equalizer 2 is and how it differs?

Gene

I think you would need more than washers. All that "slop" between the bar and socket would give you very little sway control on center. IMHO, the tighter the fit (within reason) between the spring bar and socket, the better the on center sway control feel.

[dznf0g]

"Now, does anyone know what the Equalizer 2 is and how it differs?"

Some time ago I saw info on it somewhere on the web....I can't find nuttin' about it now. Not even on EQ website??????

[Gene]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

"Now, does anyone know what the Equalizer 2 is and how it differs?"

Some time ago I saw info on it somewhere on the web....I can't find nuttin' about it now. Not even on EQ website??????

I only saw a passing mention of it as if they had discontinued the product but hadn't cleaned up the website. They have promoted 4 point sway control for years and then the 2 was for 2 point sway control. Not very good promotion and possibly was cannibalizing their sales of the original product, or it just didn't sell because most people would pick 4 over 2. But the 2 is about $200-300 less.

I found it on the internet and it has 2 styles—round bar which is square but curves upward into the sockets, and the "trunnion style" square bars. The latter looks just like the 4 point system from the small photo I saw. The round bar is the cheapest.

If one of these actually works the same as the 4 point system it would be an alternative to spending much more money for a new one. I think someone would have to call Equalizer to find out just what this is all about. It won't be me for the time being.

Gene

[Airtandem]

I know it would be a liability issue, but could the bars be milled (ground) to reduce the weight issue? ( make the 1k bars =????weight) and start the milling about 2 inches out from the head.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by Airtandem

I know it would be a liability issue, but could the bars be milled (ground) to reduce the weight issue? ( make the 1k bars =????weight) and start the milling about 2 inches out from the head.

That has been suggested before and I think it is perfectly doable. I just can't bring myself to risk my $150, 1000# bar set for an experiment. That's why I'm looking for a cheap buy on some 600#ers (or better yet a donor set)

[Airtandem]

I asked E-quilizer, and it was suggested that I drop the L bracket one notch

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by Airtandem

I asked E-quilizer, and it was suggested that I drop the L bracket one notch

Then you're compromising proper WD and reducing the resistance to sway.

Sounds like their typical response though. Last year I had a lengthy discussion with them on this very subject. End result; a properly adjusted EQ setup (as they have it limited with no interchangeability of bar ratings) just is very inflexible.

[redwoodguy]

1000# Bars vs. 600# Bars

This is the next intriguing question I am trying to understand about this hitch. Can you over-hitch? Is there a real problem, or is this an imagined problem? I know at first glance it seems intuitive that the heavier bar would make the ride harsher on the trailer, but I am beginning to think that is an illusion, or imagined problem that doesn't actually exist. I think the ride quality from the trailer perspective is the same no matter which bar is used.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by redwoodguy

1000# Bars vs. 600# Bars

This is the next intriguing question I am trying to understand about this hitch. Can you over-hitch? Is there a real problem, or is this an imagined problem? I know at first glance it seems intuitive that the heavier bar would make the ride harsher on the trailer, but I am beginning to think that is an illusion, or imagined problem that doesn't actually exist. I think the ride quality from the trailer perspective is the same no matter which bar is used.

I have seen trailers, both AS and non-AS which have damage which can logically be attributed to "over-hitching". I have encountered no damage to mine, but I started down this road of participating in these threads when I first got my AS. It came with an EQ with 1000# bars. I became very alarmed with how the setup behaved when entering steep drives etc. It seemed very stiff, compressing the front suspension on a 1/2 ton and liftin the rear of the truck. One time I got out and looked and there was very little flex in the bars when the rear wheels wer at the low point (curb gutter, if you will). The fron looked like it was compressed at leas 2" and the back looked like I was back in the 70s and had just installed Gabriael Hijackers.

That is A LOT of stress on the a frame and potentially the shell. I took it off as soon as I got home.....even before reading the first post here about overhitching!

That's my opinion. I have no idea what the trailer can stand over the long haul, but I didn't like what I saw and am not willing to risk it.

[dznf0g]

I also can tell you that the ride is definitely smoother with my 800# reese bars than it was with the 1000# EQs. The difference is like having too much air in air shocks when running solo compared to having a nice ride. Not sure how to describe it differently....OK....with the EQ the whole rig pretty much rose and fell as a single unit. With the Reese I can see in the mirror, and feel a nice porpous effect. I hesitate to use that term as it conjers up negatives, but I hope it gets my meaning across

[redwoodguy]

Dozn---
Interesting observations for sure. I wonder if I am understanding the question correctly?

Q1: One question relates to ride harshness. e.g. the jolts and bumps felt inside the vehicle as you go over potholes or bumps or cracks in the road. I often read posts of people saying their rivets are getting jolted loose and so on from this harshness of ride.

Q2: Another question is about the frame or chassis damage - of either the TV or trailer - being damaged due to the action of the bars when driving over dips/humps which cause a lot vertical travel (compression or expansion) of the suspension in the TV or trailer.

For Q1, I don't really see how the bars can increase or decrease ride harshness in the TV. I think the ride is solely a function of the suspension of the rear TV axle and the trailer axle. The bars would affect (reduce) porpoising on wavy roads, but I don't think the bars affect jarring jolts or bumps from potholes and the like. The trailer suspension is dominant in that mode.

For Q2, it's a bit the opposite. I can easily see that there is going to be a big effect on TV suspension with very stiff bars. If you imagine bars getting so stiff they become effectively a solid link between the TV and trailer, then the TV suspension is going to have to do all the work (vertical travel) as you move this "stiffened rig" over a dip or bump. e.g. the trailer will hold the back of the TV up as you cross a dip, and the TV rear wheels will have to drop down to meet the road. Whether this is harmful to the TV, I don't know.

[Airtandem]

maybe I should qualify my statement as to the adjusting the "L" on the hitch. I had a 98 ft Excella and a HD GMC 2500

[Gene]

The question of overhitching has been discussed endlessly. The easy answer is that is must because it seems so—heavier bars means a inflexible, harsh ride. A simple statement like that reminds me of conventional wisdom, however, it may be true.

I don't worry about an occasional drive up a steep driveway because it is very short and relatively uncommon, so to me it seems the real test is normal driving and emergency situations. There doesn't seem to be any testing of that. Bumps and potholes at high speed may be the best test.

It worries me because of the front end separation with some trailers. Most of them seem to be frequently used trailers over 25'. It has happened on some 25's it appears. But those reports have been infrequent and mostly occurred a several years ago. They may indicate overhitching or badly built trailers during Airstream's big sales years prior to the Great Recession. Those were also the years when the most reports of poorly built trailers were most common, so it may have nothing to do with overhitching or 3/4 or 1 ton trucks with stiff suspensions. It may have been poor workmanship during busy years, but we don't know. It was also claimed by at least one person that Airstream cheapened the frame to body connection on Safari's, but front end separation happened on other models too. It may also have to do with crazed owners driving like maniacs.

I don't know whether it is correct that heavier bars matter. And it is possible that you are less overhitched than you think. Tongue weight is an illusion. It doesn't count the weight of full propane tanks, may not include the spare tire and certainly doesn't count the cargo in the front of the trailer or any options that may be located there. Probably most tongue weights in reality are 150 lbs. more than the stated specification. It doesn't help that when you look at various Airstream publications and find different numbers for tongue weight for a specific model. You can weigh the tongue—the Owner's Manual shows how with a simple lever and a bathroom scale. I have never done it and I expect few others have either. Our trailer has a stated tongue weight (if I remember correctly) of 730 lbs. and I think reality is around 900. Thus 800 lb. bars would be too little, 1,000 as close as possible and 1,200 a bit too much. 1,400 lbs. would be substantially too high.

Another thing is how much strain the trailer and truck can take. To level a trailer, many extend the jack up very high while hitched and this strains the tongue and maybe the body plus the truck weight distributing hitch. It also is common to extend the jack to maximum height to get the bars on and off. People jack up the front while hitched after a long day on the road and don't want to remove the hitch. Will heavier bars cause more problems in these situations?

One thing we agree on is that Equalizer is not telling us everything. The guy who invented this is probably long gone and the engineers there may not be as smart as he was, so they don't really think it through, or, as is common, the manufacturer is worried about what is said and tells them to say all is fine.

Gene

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Airtandem

I had a 98 ft Excella and a HD GMC 2500

How did you get that 98 ft. trailer around corners?

Gene

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

How did you get that 98 ft. trailer around corners?

Gene

NICE! I'd like to see that as well!

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by redwoodguy

Dozn---
Interesting observations for sure. I wonder if I am understanding the question correctly?

Q1: One question relates to ride harshness. e.g. the jolts and bumps felt inside the vehicle as you go over potholes or bumps or cracks in the road. I often read posts of people saying their rivets are getting jolted loose and so on from this harshness of ride.

Q2: Another question is about the frame or chassis damage - of either the TV or trailer - being damaged due to the action of the bars when driving over dips/humps which cause a lot vertical travel (compression or expansion) of the suspension in the TV or trailer.

For Q1, I don't really see how the bars can increase or decrease ride harshness in the TV. I think the ride is solely a function of the suspension of the rear TV axle and the trailer axle. The bars would affect (reduce) porpoising on wavy roads, but I don't think the bars affect jarring jolts or bumps from potholes and the like. The trailer suspension is dominant in that mode.

For Q2, it's a bit the opposite. I can easily see that there is going to be a big effect on TV suspension with very stiff bars. If you imagine bars getting so stiff they become effectively a solid link between the TV and trailer, then the TV suspension is going to have to do all the work (vertical travel) as you move this "stiffened rig" over a dip or bump. e.g. the trailer will hold the back of the TV up as you cross a dip, and the TV rear wheels will have to drop down to meet the road. Whether this is harmful to the TV, I don't know.

Q1- I concur. I think spring bars have no effect on "harshness" as you describe it. I say that because, regardless of hitch brand and bar rating you are putting x amount of force between the ball and coupler to distribute x amount of weight with any properly set up hitch configuration. Shocks are going to be transmitted through the solid coupling of the ball and trailer coupler regardless of spring flexibility. I think rivet popping etc. is more a function of TV suspension (over trucked) and/or AS axle condition, and/or TV and AS running gear balance.

Q2- This is where stiff bars hurt the AS IMHO. Could show up as bend a frame, cracked skins, broken rivets in the area of stress (front panels) and separation.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

I think rivet popping etc. is more a function of TV suspension (over trucked) and/or AS axle condition, and/or TV and AS running gear balance.

Q2- This is where stiff bars hurt the AS IMHO. Could show up as bend a frame, cracked skins, broken rivets in the area of stress (front panels) and separation.

Popped rivets may not indicate any of those things. In our trailer there is a line of rivets running front to back over the kitchen and door entry. They are about 2' from the curbside wall.

Most popped in the first 2 years. When I went to replace them it appeared they attached to nothing and were installed improperly at the factory. Some had to be replaced with slightly larger ones or they would fall out immediately, some didn't. Once replaced, all have stayed in place. This appears to prove poor workmanship and nothing else.

Gene

[Airtandem]

it was so long I had to trade it . it was actually a 98, 30 foot.

and it had to be a lawyer that caught it

[redwoodguy]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

The question of overhitching has been discussed endlessly. The easy answer is that is must because it seems so—heavier bars means a inflexible, harsh ride. A simple statement like that reminds me of conventional wisdom, however, it may be true.


Gene

I'd like to play Devil's Advocate here and challenge the conventional wisdom. I really don't see by what physical mechanism the ride can get harsher in the trailer.

In the Beginning - A Simple Hitch
If you start with no WD, and just a simple coupler and ball connection, the ride at the trailer is determined solely by the suspension of the TV rear axle, and the suspension of the trailer axle. The hitch is solid and contributes nothing to the ride by its own actions. The connection articulates freely. When there are waves in the road that cause the TV body to porpoise, it will transmit an opposite phase porpoise to the trailer, but that's not ride harshness, it is just body movement.

Adding WD Bars
The lifting action of WD is caused by connecting stiff bars from TV to the A-frame, and that now adds resistance to the movement of the ball/coupler connection. It no longer articulates freely, especially in the vertical axis. In order to articulate vertically, the bars must bend, and or the TV suspension must compress - usually both. From a ride harshness standpoint nothing has really changed. The TV suspension and trailer suspension will still determine what jolts are felt from the road into the body of either.

Adding WD bars hasn't changed the ride smoothness one bit. It only changes what happens with waves in the road. Now when you go over waves the TV body will not porpoise as much because it now has the added stiffness of the trailer coupled by stiff WD bars. The suspension in the TV will compress more because the rear of the TV body is being held down by the trailer. The TV body will porpoise less, and therefore the trailer will porpoise less. But that doesn't affect ride harshness.

A Thought Experiment
So, suppose we imagine two rigs. The first is a rig with just a ball and coupler. That represents the softest bar possible - no bar. The second has really, really stiff WD bars. Call them solid they are so stiff. Now, drive each rig over a straight path with say wooden strips every few feet. Sit inside the trailer as you drive over the strips. What difference would be experienced? I say none. The ride harshness/softness experienced is going to be controlled only by the suspension of the trailer axle, not the hitch.

I can see lots of ways and reasons that "harsh ride" could become connected to stiff WD bars, but many of those might not be causal, but rather coincidental.

Just a thought.