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Old 01-09-2012, 10:21 AM   #155
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Wow, sorry, I wasn't judging, not my intention at all. Didn't have that level of detail before.
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:30 AM   #156
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dznf0g (did they really name you that?), thanks for posting the Thomson article. I wish we had his entire series at hand. Is that possible? Copyright?

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Old 01-09-2012, 10:32 AM   #157
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Self imposed name! I originally found it on another site, can't remember where, as a PDF. Dunno where the others are.
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:10 PM   #158
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Can someone explain the "direction of the weight transfer" to me from the pdf?

Is the weight transferred through the frame of the tow vehicle? The hitch bar connects to the frame through the hitch receiver and the hitch receiver then spreads to the outside of the tow vehicle frame.

Maybe my engineering brain is a little rusty or something but I'm not sure how you can transfer loads anywhere but THROUGH the frame.

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Old 01-09-2012, 07:39 PM   #159
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Sean, I think he means through in the context of "via". Like the weight is transferred to the front suspension through (via) the frame. What page are you looking at?
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:43 PM   #160
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He writes, "the main reason for the rearward angle is to change the direction of the weight transfer."

I don't get that.

The load, or weight transfer, is applied at the hitch receiver... isn't it?
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:52 PM   #161
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Yes, but like he says if you were in a left hand turn and the left bar didn't unload, you would be trying to turn the TV over on it's right side with the left bar. His theory is in a left turn, due to the downward tilt, you are unloading the left bar, as it is swinging in an upward arc, so there is progressively less "trying to roll the TV over. At the same time the right bar is swinging in a downward arc, increasing its force more and more down the centerline of the vehicle as the turn progresses.

He maintains that the effort of proper setup is to try and keep that weight distribution force as close to down the centerline of the vehicle as possible.

I don't know if I made it any more clear, or just muddied it up!
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:01 PM   #162
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The weight distribution loads are transferred through the frame so they are never down the center of the tow vehicle.
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:09 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Sean Woodruff
The weight distribution loads are transferred through the frame so they are never down the center of the tow vehicle.
It's an imaginary centerline, as opposed to the centerline of force being pointed...like at the right rear door area, trying to twist the vehicle over. If the force were down the centerline of the vehicle, it would mean that the force was equal on both frame rails with no twist induced in those frame rails due to loading of the inside WD bar.
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:22 PM   #164
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So the ball being tilted, even though it is a sphere, will really make THAT much of a difference?

Seems like a lot of writing for very little functional difference. Just my opinion. But, I have known him for a long time so I've seen just about everything in the name of "proper" set up.
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:28 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Sean Woodruff
So the ball being tilted, even though it is a sphere, will really make THAT much of a difference?

Seems like a lot of writing for very little functional difference. Just my opinion. But, I have known him for a long time so I've seen just about everything in the name of "proper" set up.
It's not the ball tilt that matters, it's the tilt of the bar mounts, be they trunnion pockets in the case of Reese, or the sockets in the case of Eq.
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:31 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
It's not the ball tilt that matters, it's the tilt of the bar mounts, be they trunnion pockets in the case of Reese, or the sockets in the case of Eq.

Got it... thanks.


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Old 01-09-2012, 08:39 PM   #167
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So the ball being tilted, even though it is a sphere, will really make THAT much of a difference?

Seems like a lot of writing for very little functional difference. Just my opinion. But, I have known him for a long time so I've seen just about everything in the name of "proper" set up.
Sean, I will say this. Like every thing Andrew does, it's "pushing the envelope". I agree with his analysis, but I don't adjust as radically as he does. He mentions using ALL the available tilt and most if not all of the chain links. I don't go that far. Depending on how sloppy the receiver to shank interface is I use 5 or 6 links under tension and maybe 3/4 of the available tilt, depending on bed load, tongue weight, TV model, etc.
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:54 PM   #168
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...Since the question involves ride harshness, the most obvious instrument to apply first would be an accelerometer or tri-axial shock recorder. The latter being rather expensive, but the former might be as cheap as an $2 iPAD app. Ride harshness is exhibited as shocks in the 3-axis of movement. Higher G forces mean harsher ride. When the the rig traverses chuck holes and other road impediments, the harsher ride will generate spikes with higher G-force and or longer periods. It might be quite possible to simply graph a 5 minute ride over some course using first one bar, and then the other. (At the moment I realize that the two bars are not available for the same head, but that's a practical thing to be solved for the test).

I would imagine hard mounting the instrument in the front most part of the trailer. ... I know you can get a tri-axial recorder of industrial quality for about $800, but that's a bit steep for an experiment like this.

It sure would be cool to do though, wouldn't it? I think it would really put a nice foundation on the whole issue.

EDIT: Well - it looks like there are several apps for the Android. I have a Galaxy Tab, so I will see if I can find a cheap and useful app using the built-in accelerometer. I'm concerned if there is enough dynamic range in such a device, but we'll see!
I can offer some input here...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f437...tml#post595921

I used a...well...it cost 4X more than the trailer...equipment, gathers 100hz data points...the equipment is well up to the task

I mounted it directly over the axle to see the effect of bar stiffness on the trailers suspension...stiff bars make for a stiff ride, right?

One run with NO bars (the truck tail cycles up and down like a bronco) followed by a run with 1000lb bars cranked up tight...

Within the limits of experimental deviation...no difference in the ride due to transfering weight to the trailers axles.

It's been a while, I may gather more data when I swap axles on the Overlander...

Some general thoughts...these trailers have incredibly stiff suspension. We all agree an axle drops 2" when unloaded...6000lb trailer/2 axles = 750 lbs/inch of spring rate! For a visual...get two "BIG" friends and plop them in the back seat of your car...squat city. Then march them into your stream and even try to measure how far the trailer drops...
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