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Old 01-01-2013, 02:29 PM   #1177
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Originally Posted by Wazbro View Post
The chains on the Andersen pull the trailer forward against the ball the same way the trailers weight would to activate the surge brakes when stopping. So with 1000lbs per chain 2000lbs total you would need nearly 2000lbs of force pulling (that wasn't lost in moving the trailer) just to deactivate the brakes.

Kind of similar to the reason most trailers with surge brakes have a way to deactivate them when backing up.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:11 PM   #1178
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I last posted here in September. It's an interesting thread made more interesting by what I believe to be the mis-communication between posters. I think there are two arguments in play and they are not mutually exclusive positions, even though the ongoing dialog tries to make them so.

Argument 1 - The Hitch Works
Sure, you can connect it with a trailer and tow a trailer and things seem to be fine. No one has had a failure (that I know of) and people are happy with the handling.

Argument 2 - The Hitch Doesn't Transfer Weight Very Well
This is a technical argument in which it is being shown that the hitch transfers less weight than other kinds of WD hitches. And that further, to transfer the theoretically correct weight, it would require a force that would exceed the rating of the chains.

Argument 2 does NOT negate Argument 1. Both arguments can be true, and in all likelihood both ARE true. The hitch works well enough to satisfy users, and it doesn't transfer the weight as well as other WD hitch types.

In short, everyone is right. But, you'd never know it by reading the general comments.

The hitch uses an inefficient form of leverage for the WD action. It's far more efficient mechanically to use a long lever than a short one. Anyone can prove that to themselves in the backyard using a stick and a rock.

That inefficient lever doesn't mean the "hitch don't work." It's just a comment about the ED capability of the hitch. Apparently there are other features that make it a very attractive idea. So, on balance - users like it. But some potential users who may need more WD, might not find it so attractive compared to competing designs.

There's really not much controversy here. I think Ron Gratz has shown the WD problem, and I think others have shown that the "hitch works nicely." No conflict, really!
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:37 PM   #1179
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Thanks for answering my question, Ganaraska and awchief.

I'm still planning on the ProPride more for the non-sway benefit than anything. In fact, my TV manual says WD is optional for my application. Perhaps Sean has a non-WD option?

Either way, I think mstephens (I hope that was the correct username?) summed things up very well.

A salubrious 2013 to everyone! :-)
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:21 PM   #1180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wazbro View Post
Most also believe the Andersen hitch works well with a large tow vehicle and small trailer.

I also think most would agree it wont work with surge brakes.
Yes

Having adapted a Reese Hitch to surge brakes, a tandem axle Jayco pop up, against the advise of the brake, trailer, and Reese manufactures I think I have to agree with this one.

While it is the first limitation to the Andersen that has been put forth I think it is correct. Considering the way the Andersen puts pressure on the back of the ball, against the coupling, I have to assume it would be applying the brakes at all times. Bar type hitches exert no horizontal force to the coupling

Now that said and given the fact that all of the above manufactures recommend against it maybe we have to accept this limitation.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:26 PM   #1181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
Please provide us scale data that shows significantly different load on an any tow vehicle axle with the exact same height measurements.
Steve, sorry to keep you waiting.

Data such as you have requested can be found here: RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Towing: Which Choice?

For your convenience, I've plotted the 22 sets of height-load values on the following chart.

If your assertion were correct -- "If the height is the same, the weight is the same." -- there would be only one value of load for a given value of height.

In fact, these data show the assertion is not correct.
For example, for a height value of 19-3/8" (19.375), there were four values of load -- ranging from 4500# to 4760#.
I leave it to you to decide if those are significantly different loads.

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Old 01-01-2013, 08:36 PM   #1182
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Ron, I'm sorry, I see absolutely no cat scale weight tickets, so how do we know any of this is real?

And you've not answered any of my questions of you from my last post.

Do you own and use an Andersen hitch? Do you own and use ANY weight distribution hitch? Do you own and tow an Airstream?
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:49 PM   #1183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
Steve, sorry to keep you waiting.

Data such as you have requested can be found here: RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Towing: Which Choice?

For your convenience, I've plotted the 22 sets of height-load values on the following chart.

If your assertion were correct -- "If the height is the same, the weight is the same." -- there would be only one value of load for a given value of height.

In fact, these data show the assertion is not correct.
For example, for a height value of 19-3/8" (19.375), there were four values of load -- ranging from 4500# to 4760#.
I leave it to you to decide if those are significantly different loads.

Hi, I also agree that if the ride height is the same, the weight on the axles will also be the same. What I haven't read here is the fact that both of the tow vehicle's front and rear fenders must be at the same [original, unloaded] ride height for this to be true. So if the front fender is the same ride height and the rear is lower, the front would be a bit lighter.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:56 PM   #1184
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Come on Ron what does this data relate to that has axle measurements of 19 to 20 ins. and front axle weights close to 5.000 lbs.

My point of measurement on my Excursion is closer to 38 ins. and even my diesel is not close to these front axle weights.

Please name what you are working with and where these data point come from.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:14 PM   #1185
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Don't confuse me with the facts; my minds made up. Just a quote, I've tried Reese, Equlizer and Andersen. I wanted to try the Pro Pride, but $$$ kept me from it. I will also add that the weight of the various hitches was a BIG consideration.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:30 PM   #1186
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<< Mod hat on>>

Time to cool off, and remember thar simplest of rules that we have here on Airforums: Be Nice.

Insulting each other and carrying on in a generally rude manner will not be tolerated, and you all know that. And I also believe that you know the consequences if you can't treat each other civilly.

Also, lastly: I will remind you that there is nothing requiring members to actually own any particular equipment that is being discussed here to participate in the discussions.

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Old 01-01-2013, 09:32 PM   #1187
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Originally Posted by Airtandem View Post
Don't confuse me with the facts; my minds made up. Just a quote, I've tried Reese, Equlizer and Andersen. I wanted to try the Pro Pride, but $$$ kept me from it. I will also add that the weight of the various hitches was a BIG consideration.
And that is where a lighter-weight setup like the Andersen fits in for me... I have 650lb tongue weight... 4500lb trailer... I don't need to shift a lot of weight, just a bit. But, I hang a mega-hitch on there and now I've got 850lbs, plus the ball is 2 feet further back increasing the leverage of the trailer... now I NEED to move 600lbs to get back into trim.

Andersen... tucks in close, weighs 50lbs... a few cranks on the chains to pop it up and away we go.

For monster rigs with monster tongue weights... maybe not within capacity...

That doesn't mean it won't work for many people.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:48 PM   #1188
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As I see more and more Streamers adopting the Andersen I am waiting to see the first one go back to their previous system.

That, unlike feeble attempts to discount the hitch, will be the type of TEST that will have some weight on public opinion.

Repeated comments from none users and those with other vested interest make for exciting attempts at point counter point but have done little to dissuade those who are satisfied users or slow the adoption of the Andersen.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:49 PM   #1189
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Come on Ron what does this data relate to that has axle measurements of 19 to 20 ins. and front axle weights close to 5.000 lbs.
The poster's tow vehicle and trailer are described at the bottom of the post to which I provided the link.

If you read, you will see the data are for a 2010 F-350,6.4PSD.

The poster wanted to have height data which were not influenced by tire compression so, instead of measuring from the ground, he measured from a mark on the wheel hub.

Ron
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:30 PM   #1190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aage View Post

Also, lastly: I will remind you that there is nothing requiring members to actually own any particular equipment that is being discussed here to participate in the discussions.

<<Mod hat off>>
That said, the credibillity or lack thereof, on these discussions is certainly suspect!

I've put together advertising and marketing programs for automotive aftermarket performance products that were sold more sucessfully on the emotional level than the practical one. I plan on buying an Anderson based on the input of the USERS posting here. I'm also unsubscribing to this thread as everything that needs to be said has been said at least three or four times?

One last thought: wonder how many times posts coulda, woulda, shoulda, been edited if it weren't for the 30 minute rule?
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