Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-30-2012, 02:38 PM   #1135
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,811
Images: 12
No I have not used air bags since I had a 1976 Ford Torino as my TV. As noted in a past post that was a softly sprung car and needed some help over and above what the Reese WD would provide. The max pressure on those bags was 5 lbs. if I remember right. On a 5 in. dia. bag that is close to a 200lbs lift

While I can not argue against your basic idea I would suggest you consider setting the air bags to cover about half the 800 lbs. rather than the complete load. I mention this because I thing you will see unnecessary porpoising if the Andersen bushings are not applying some damping to the system. Additionally while not towing you head lights may be in the ground.

Another consideration if there is little or no load in the chains you may see a time delay in the sway control aspects of the hitch.
__________________

__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 02:56 PM   #1136
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by TG Twinkie View Post
My thought process is to hitch the trailer to the truck without the Anderson system under tension. Then level the rig with the air bags. Once that is complete and I know how much pressure to inflate the air bags. Then go thru the setup that Andersen recommends.
My expectations are. The tension on the Andersen hitch will be lower do to the assistance of the air bags.
Since the rear axle of the TV acts as a fulcrum. The combination of the Andersen hitch and the airbags will set the TV at the correct level for the steering geometry.
I expect to set the pressure of the airbags at @25#'s, which will be what is required for an 800# load. 1 pound of pressure for 32 pounds of lift. Since the trailer will be loaded, ready for travel, the Andersen system will be required to handle any additional weight that I put in the truck, plus give me the sway control.
My previous TV was a '98 Dodge 3/4 to extended cab with an 8' box. It had air bags, I didn't use any WD. It worked well. Since I "upgraded" to a 1/2 ton truck with an 18" shorter wheel base. I thought a WD may be in order.
While I did not experience any sway with the larger truck and since the new truck has a shorter wheel base, an anti sway system may be in order.
I am looking forward to the "great experiment", I'll call it. To see if my theory pans out. After all! It works on paper.
LOL
Just my opinion, but IF I was planning to use air bags, I would reverse your planned procedure. i.e., I would first set the WD hitch to return all the weight I could to the front tow vehicle axle, and then I would inflate the air bags to return the rear of the TV if needed.

I think the outcome would be more satisfactory done this way.
__________________

__________________
Regards,
Steve
SteveH is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 03:05 PM   #1137
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,583
Images: 1
the historic claim by the bar type manufactures

The body in question is SAE, the Society of Automotive Engineers. Not aftermarket manufacturers . . except those who market a product unable to deliver on the basic premise: restoration of Front Axle Load.

That a 4-500/lb load can be done isn't impressive when most A/S TTs have TW's in excess of this. That it can barely seem to restore 50% on heavier TW's make calling it a "weight-distributing hitch" questionable. To put it mildly.


.
__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 9-cpm solo, 15-cpm towing
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 03:31 PM   #1138
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,811
Images: 12
For those who may have missed it I think this says it ALL.




Andersen 'No-Sway' Weight Distribution Hitch – 4" drop/rise, 2" ball, 5"–6" frame brackets
There is a better way –and this is it! Our silent, 'No-Sway,' 'No-Bounce' Weight Distribution Hitch doesn't just raise the bar, it sets it! Combining modern materials, technology and innovation, it’s the simplest, quietest, and most advanced weight distribution hitch on the road today. This is a first in the industry giving trailer owners the best anti-sway option AND the only true Motion-Dampening system (anti-bounce) around. Owners can't believe how smooth and quiet the ride is!

Look at these advantages:
Unparalleled Sway Control that self-adjusts
So quiet you won't even know it's there!
Patented True Motion-Dampening™ system -drastically reduces bounce
Weighs under 60lbs!!
2" ball included –no extras to buy
One pin removal from tow vehicle
Grease-free system –ball and coupler move as one
Easy install –no pry bars needed!
Optional 8" drop/rise adjustable shank available (part #3351)
Doubles as standard ball mount for towing without weight distribution
The smoothest ride around - owners are saying they can't believe it!
No problem backing up –unlike many other weight distribution hitches
10,000 lbs GTWR • 1,400 lbs tongue weight
Lifetime Warranty (limited)
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline  
Old 12-31-2012, 05:21 AM   #1139
1972 Travelux Princess 25
 
Cobourg , Ontario
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,042
After reading this whole thread I have reached 2 conclusions.

1) The Andersen hitch works well and has many advantages over conventional designs. Those who have used it, almost all speak well of it.

2) It does not transfer weight as well as spring bar hitches. It transfers weight, just not as much.

This can be an advantage. We have seen threads before, where some people had heavy duty tow vehicles with heavy duty hitches, that were too stiff and actually shook their Airstreams to pieces.

In cases like that the Andersen with its light smooth action, would be much better.

In other cases, where a light vehicle was towing a heavy trailer, the Andersen might not transfer enough weight to level the tow vehicle. In that case another brand of hitch with spring bars might work better.
__________________
Living in the trailer park of sense, looking out the window at a tornado of stupidity.
Ganaraska is offline  
Old 12-31-2012, 08:58 AM   #1140
Rivet Master
 
SteveSueMac's Avatar

 
2012 27' Flying Cloud
W , New England
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganaraska
After reading this whole thread I have reached 2 conclusions.

1) The Andersen hitch works well and has many advantages over conventional designs. Those who have used it, almost all speak well of it.

2) It does not transfer weight as well as spring bar hitches. It transfers weight, just not as much.

This can be an advantage. We have seen threads before, where some people had heavy duty tow vehicles with heavy duty hitches, that were too stiff and actually shook their Airstreams to pieces.

In cases like that the Andersen with its light smooth action, would be much better.

In other cases, where a light vehicle was towing a heavy trailer, the Andersen might not transfer enough weight to level the tow vehicle. In that case another brand of hitch with spring bars might work better.
So let's go with those conclusions for the sake of the discussion. And let's say a heavy duty TV doesn't need as much WD. How do users of the Andersen feel about the sway control capability. I've been under the impression that the HaHa and PP eliminate sway and all others react to it using different mechanisms. The Andersen does it with a brake pad of sorts in the hitch ball. Any experience with that pro or con? Also, is there a standard way to measure that? I ask because some of those heavy duty TVs also have a form of sway control (auto braking) built in so is it possible the Andersen is a better choice for HD TVs that are doing more of the work traditional hitches have been doing??
__________________
SteveSueMac is offline  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:00 AM   #1141
1972 Travelux Princess 25
 
Cobourg , Ontario
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,042
Early in the thread there were reports from users under severe weather and traffic conditions who found the Andersen equal to the Haha and PP and better than the spring bar hitches. There were one or two reports of the tow vehicle's sway control kicking in, under extreme conditions, for a spit second.
__________________
Living in the trailer park of sense, looking out the window at a tornado of stupidity.
Ganaraska is offline  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:45 AM   #1142
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,716
I'm going launch the idea that the Andersen does not apply weight distribution in the same way as spring bars. But I'm an artist not a scientist.

The Andersen transfers weight by shortening the distance from the bottom of the hitch to the frame brackets, lifting the tongue of the trailer. The pivot point is primarily the hitch ball.

The spring bars transfer weight by lifting the bottom of the hitch ball, then fastening the bars in that position, thereby lifting the tongue of the trailer. The primary pivot point is not the hitch ball, but a point somewhere between the tow vehicle axles.

If this is true, we would have to compute weight transfer differently for each. What do you scientists think?

doug k
__________________
dkottum is offline  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:55 AM   #1143
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,311
Doug, a specific question for you...when you set up your Andersen hitch, did you measure the front fender height before, and after the hookup? Or, did you go to the scales to weigh the front axle of the TV before and after?
__________________
Regards,
Steve
SteveH is offline  
Old 12-31-2012, 12:26 PM   #1144
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,716
I adjusted it exactly as the instructions described. Front and rear fender well measurements, then return it to this attitude with the hitch.

With all w.d. hitches it is not clear to me whether the front suspension geometry should be restored using fender measurements (mfg instructions), or whether the front axle weight should be restored (forum expert instructions).

doug k
__________________
dkottum is offline  
Old 12-31-2012, 12:30 PM   #1145
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,811
Images: 12
For those still with questions on how the Andersen applies force to the TV look at the picture in post 1138.

My first thought and I assume the first thought of most considering this question was that the tension on the chains applies force to the Front face of the ball, much like the trunnions do to the upper cup in a bar type hitch. That is not the case. The chains pulling back is countered by the Back face of the ball resting against the coupling. Viewed from the trailer side this is somewhat hard to envision. However if you look at it from the receiver side and mentally extent the shank as if it were attached to the front axle of the TV, through the frame of the TV, using the springs of the front axle as the force applied upward and you will see what is happening in the Andersen.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline  
Old 12-31-2012, 12:32 PM   #1146
4 Rivet Member
 
Livingston , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
The spring bars transfer weight by lifting the bottom of the hitch ball, then fastening the bars in that position, thereby lifting the tongue of the trailer. The primary pivot point is not the hitch ball, but a point somewhere between the tow vehicle axles.

If this is true, we would have to compute weight transfer differently for each. What do you scientists think?
Doug,

What do you mean by "primary pivot point"?

Ron
__________________
Ron Gratz is offline  
Old 12-31-2012, 12:41 PM   #1147
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Fender measurements, are exactly that.

They in no way can tell you how much weight has been transfered.

Using commercial scales is the only practical way to know "EXACTLY" what weight is being transfered and to where.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline  
Old 12-31-2012, 12:46 PM   #1148
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,716
Ron, I'm not sure, floating a thought trying to understand what's going on. My head is stuck in neutral right now. I'll have to sketch diagrams again.

doug k
__________________

__________________
dkottum is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.