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Old 11-21-2012, 01:31 PM   #1009
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I think I'm the only one Test the Andersen hitch and propride using the same truck and the same Trailer . I can tell you they are big different on everything . Propride is the one no sway at all at any condition . When I back up my trailer Andersen hitch is turning too sharp . Propride is much easier to back up . The price is big different but it is worth for everything
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:56 PM   #1010
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Originally Posted by AirHeadsRus View Post
Steve,
Are these weights good or bad. My tongue weight is about 1100 pounds according to my scales. Looks like adjusted the weight going back to axles is less than 10%.
FYI, the unhooked weight was on a different day with the bed of the truck completely empty. The hooked up weight was fully loaded for camping.
Joe
Those weights look pretty close, maybe even as close as you can get, but the hitched weight on the front axle needs to be a little heavier, and most vehicle manufacturers today, at least of trucks, spec the front axle weight to be the same as without the trailer. So, to be perfect, you need to add 60 pounds to the front axle.

We've already determined that the repeatablity of these scales is only 20 pounds.
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:22 PM   #1011
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Thanks Steve,
Those were the weights I did in January when I was hitched with the Hensley. As I recall, it was cranked up fairly high but probably could have gotten another 60 pounds if I had to. It towed fine so I saw no need to adjust further and had read here somewhere you just need to get the drive and steer axles about 10% difference.
I am attaching the CAT results from the scale trip I took in June with the Anderson. The results with the WD need to be adjusted up by 100 pounds on steer axle and 100 pounds on the drive. I was out of the truck when they took that reading but in the truck with the other one. I weigh 200 pounds give or take a few. So the numbers should be 3000# steer and 3560# drive I guess?
From me looking at it, it appears I'm moving 180 pounds to the steering axle and 80 to the trailer axles. Is that enough, I do have room to tighten up more but it pulls great now.
I like playing on the scales and I may go get another look in a couple of weeks. What this does show me is the trailer axles are over by 200 lbs so I really do not want more weight on them. I have paired down a lot and think I would be back under but would like to see. Needs to be 3200 per axle.
Joe
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:30 PM   #1012
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I'm not too sure I understand which one of those was with and which one without you in the truck, but assuming you are still with the same pickup truck, I'd say you have too much weight on the steer axle with the last set of numbers.

There have been arguments....er, discussions on here in the past about the amount of weight on the axles, but most modern truck manufactuers say to just return the weight to the front axle, not to increase the load.

Now if it were a sedan, that's a different story.

Edit: OK, now I understand....you have posted five different tickets, the third being the truck without the trailer, and the fourth and fifth, with and without WD using the Andersen. Yes, it look like you need a little more weight on the steering axle, but it's certainly close. Probably closer than a lot of the rigs running on the road today, nomatter the hitch brand.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:53 AM   #1013
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However, I have always heard it stated by many hitch "guru's", and this going back some 36+ years I have been using them, that a properly adjusted WD hitch will add 1/3 (or 33%) of the tongue weight back onto the trailer's axles.---
Steve, a few "gurus" claim that a properly-adjusted WDH will cause 1/3 of the TW to end up on the TV's front axle, 1/3 on the rear axle, and 1/3 on the trailer's axles. However, as I explained in this post -- //http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464/is-this-true-wdh-does-change-the-loads-carried-by-all-three-axles-95602-2.html#post1194405 --
As for a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 distribution – it is possible, but quite unlikely. First, you would have to transfer a load equal to 1/3 of the TW to the trailer axles. This requires an unusually high loading of the WD bars. A range of 15-25% is more typical. Second, the distance from the ball coupler to the midpoint between the trailer’s axles would have to be exactly equal to the TV’s wheelbase plus two times the ball overhang. Obviously, this cannot apply to all TV/TT combinations.

Quote:
The MOST weight that Bruce's chart shows added to the trailer's axles is 80 pounds, or 20% of the trailer's 400 pound tongue weight.
Bruce's chart show that, for the TT attached and chains loose, the TT axle load was 3020#. With 3/16" compression, the TT axle load was 3120#. This indicates the Andersen WDH caused a load of 100# (about 25% of TW) to be added to the TT's axles.

Quote:
So, it is my conclusion from Bruce's data that the Andersen WD hitch transfers less of the tongue weight back onto the trailer's axle than a conventional bar type WD hitch.
If your objective is to return the TV's front axle to the unhitched load, for a wide range of TV/TT dimensions, the WDH needs to transfer a load equal to about 25% of TW to the TT's axles. For Bruce's rig, the unhitched front axle load was 2520# and the front axle load, when hitched with 3/16" compression, was 2500#.

I think we can agree that Bruce's WDH was able to transfer a load equal to about 25% of his 400# TW to the TT's axles.
With a conventional bar-type WDH, if you want to transfer more load, you can purchase bars with a greater rating.
With the Andersen WDH, you would have to increase the compression of the urethane spring.
Does anyone know how much compression the urethane can withstand?

Ron
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:02 AM   #1014
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The amount of weight transfered to the trailer wheels is a function of the tow vehicle wheel base, rear overhang and the distance from the ball to the trailer's wheels. If you think of it in the extreme sometimes it is easier to see.

If you had trailer 5' long with 1000 pounds of hitch weight and equalized it on a long pick up almost all of the hitch weight would be on the trailer wheels. If the trialer was 50' long very little would be.

So if you have a 23' Airstream and a 34' Airstream with the same hitch weight and you transfer the same amount to the front axle of the tow vehicle you will transfer about 100 pounds more to the 23's suspension than you would the 34's.

If that makes sense to anyone.

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Old 11-22-2012, 08:30 AM   #1015
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The amount of weight transfered to the trailer wheels is a function of the tow vehicle wheel base, rear overhang and the distance from the ball to the trailer's wheels. If you think of it in the extreme sometimes it is easier to see.

If you had trailer 5' long with 1000 pounds of hitch weight and equalized it on a long pick up almost all of the hitch weight would be on the trailer wheels. If the trialer was 50' long very little would be.

So if you have a 23' Airstream and a 34' Airstream with the same hitch weight and you transfer the same amount to the front axle of the tow vehicle you will transfer about 100 pounds more to the 23's suspension than you would the 34's.

If that makes sense to anyone.

Andrew T
Yes, Andrew, that does make sense. It's like the trailer is the lever, and a longer lever will perform a given amount of work easier. The shorter lever takes more force to do the same amount of work, or in this case, lift a given amount of weight.
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Old 11-22-2012, 09:06 AM   #1016
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
However, I have always heard it stated by many hitch "guru's", and this going back some 36+ years I have been using them, that a properly adjusted WD hitch will add 1/3 (or 33%) of the tongue weight back onto the trailer's axles. The MOST weight that Bruce's chart shows added to the trailer's axles is 80 pounds, or 20% of the trailer's 400 pound tongue weight.
This can best be summed up as urban legend or a wives tail. Consider the facts that there are different trailer lengths, different TV wheelbases, and different spring ratios on the rigs you can quickly see from you old see-saw days that a single ration could not be possible. Shorter trailers will receive a higher portion of the transferred weight as longer trailers will receive a lesser portion. The same holds true for the TV.

What the WD hitch, independent of sway control, is designed to provide is a configuration that produces a safe driving condition as close to the original vehicle setup as possible. Sway control is a second function often, but not always, designed into a WD hitch. When these functions are combined and the rig configuration is factored in you are working with a unique set of variables relating to that TV trailer combination. Singularly defined standards can't be applied but rather are GUIDE LINE at best.
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:16 AM   #1017
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Howie, move the ball mount in your drop bar down a notch to quiet these folks.

doug k
That might be considered Cheating. That might cause me to be running tongue light and thus make it easier to transfer weight to the front axle of the TV.

As I mentioned my recent scale trip was after Field Adjustments because I had had other issues that I had been working on since the last set up of the hitch. Thus an eyeball setting.

I plan to do a (from scratch fender measurement set up) soon and then go directly to the scales to have a direct comparison.

In the mean time let them chow on Joe's scale records. We don't want to overwhelm them for too many fact at once. Opinions are had to change even for great minds.
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:33 AM   #1018
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See post 1031 and 1034 on previous page.

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Hi Joe

Can you post the post number for your scale reports. The Nay Sayers will not take the time to look them up because they have an Opinion Already.
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Old 11-22-2012, 11:19 AM   #1019
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We have taken this to a higher level than just engineering. We are now speaking in metaphors. Those posting from now on will have to include their curriculum vitae in order to imply credibility. Oh well that leaves me out as I only have a degree from the School of Hard Knocks at the University of Uncoming Coming Up The Hard Way having finished at the top of the class.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:07 PM   #1020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirHeadsRus View Post
Sean,
Please take a look at my scale posts for the Hensley and the Andersen and tell me what you think the numbers should be. I have adjustments left in the Andersen and had more adjustment left in the Hensley. Using these numbers, what would the perfect numbers be if I installed a PP ? Is that a fair question?
Regards,
Joe

Well, you aren't really comparing apples to apples. (metaphor intended) (Is that a metaphor?) (BSCE, MBA)

There is 780 more pounds on the truck with the Arrow than with the Anderson and yet you still returned the steer axle to a weight closer to it's unloaded weight.

I think your Anderson numbers need more weight on the front axle.

Can't begin to guess for the ProPride but it would be closer to your Arrow numbers. With the load equal to your Anderson load it would easily return the front axle to its unloaded weight.


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Old 11-22-2012, 12:23 PM   #1021
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Howie, you're going to readjust your Andersen, this is how I understand the Andersen procedure in a nutshell, do you agree? :

1) Be on level ground pavement.

2) Measure inside top of trailer ball coupler to ground.

3) Install the ball mount in the drop bar so the top of the ball is 1 1/2" higher than that measurement.

4) Drop the trailer coupling onto the ball, but NOT to add weight just touching. Lock the coupling latch.

5) Tension the chains evenly until the urethane bushings are each compressed 3/8" to 5/8". (Estimate more or less
depending on tongue weight.)
6) Raise the hitch jack to drop all tongue weight on the ball.

7) Is the trailer level? If low in front, lower the jack to relieve tongue weight and apply more tension. If high in front,
lower the jack to relieve tongue weight and take off tension.

8) With the trailer level and tongue weight on the ball, is there equal drop at front and rear wheel wells of the truck?
If the front is high, go back to step (3) and lower the ball mount. If the front is low, raise the ball mount.
9) When trailer level and truck at original attitude, you're done. Make note of the number of threads left on the chain
adjustment or measure the thickness of the urethane bushing so you can repeat that adjustment each time.

Here's my own observations, everyone will have their own:

The adjustment of the ball mount is in 1 1/2" increments so perfection is unlikely. The important point is to level the trailer, and that the truck does not have a higher attitude in back (lighten rear axle) than front compared to unloaded attitude.

Go to the weight scales if that's what you want to do (not in instructions). If you have satisfactory weights, you're good. If not the hitch will not work for you.

If during the adjustment you break the chains, blow the urethane bushing out, or the bushing is about to blow out, the hitch will not work for you.

If you are convinced there is too much tension on the components and they make break , the hitch will not work for you. This is true of any hitch, but this hitch is new and we have limited experience with it. I have used in in some rough road conditions over my 3700 miles and I see no problems. I like it but I'll keep an eye on it. I'm keeping the urethane bushings away from direct sunlight and the hitch out of weather when stored.

doug k
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Old 11-22-2012, 01:39 PM   #1022
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Well, you aren't really comparing apples to apples. (metaphor intended) (Is that a metaphor?) (BSCE, MBA)



I think your Anderson numbers need more weight on the front axle.




-
How much more on the steer axle would be correct Sean?
The difference in the apples is with the Hensley;
Another passenger was in the truck, bed was fully loaded for camping and the 200 pound extra Hensley weight.
I guess with the Andersen set up, if I added the six hundred pounds back in the TV at least 200 pounds of that would show up on the steer axle and be perfect?
But in any case, even with the PP you would like the steer axle to be 3360 pounds like the empty truck?
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