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Old 11-19-2012, 09:41 PM   #967
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Originally Posted by purman View Post
I find it interesting that people make a huge deal over 160# not being put back on the front axles while under WD.. And make out that it would be unsafe to drive. (ridiculous) But we load our TV up with people, luggage, groceries, and other things and drive around without any WD what so ever, with lots of weight on the rear taking weight from the front. I put 1000's of lbs in the back of my truck with no WD and drive around. And we don't have a problem with that???? Makes me wonder how people think sometimes????
Adding stuff to your vehicle is not likely to reduce the weight on the front axle, unless that weight is added behind the rear axle. For example, the weight of people in the passenger compartment would add weight in roughly equal proportions to the front and rear axles, because the passenger compartment is roughly centred between the axles. Even stuff in the bed of a pickup is unlikely to remove weight from the front axle unless you pile it all near the back, and then it would need to be considerably heavier than the tongue weight of your trailer to account for it being closer to the rear axle.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:19 PM   #968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
Sure I can explain how that happens. With a conventional weight distribution hitch, the bars that transfer the weight do so by loading downward on the trailer's tongue, and that's what transfers some of the tongue weight back onto the trailer's axle.
This is correct.
The downward force produced by the bars generates a moment about the ball which is the pivot point.
This moment produces a load on the trailer's axles.

Quote:
With the Andersen weight distribution hitch, the chains pull foward on the trailers tongue, and not downward, so no weight is added to the trailer's axle.
This is not correct.
The chains exert a force on the brackets at a distance below the elevation of the ball.
This force, multiplied by the vertical distance between chains and ball, generates a moment about the ball.
This moment produces a load on the trailer's axles.

If you study the axle load data reported by Bruce H. in post #563 on page 41 of this thread, you will see that
1/16" of compression caused 40# to be transferred to the TT's axles,
1/8" of compression caused 80# to be transferred to the TT's axles, and
3/16" of compression caused 100# to be transferred to the TT's axles.

Ron
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:05 PM   #969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidsonOverlander

Adding stuff to your vehicle is not likely to reduce the weight on the front axle, unless that weight is added behind the rear axle. For example, the weight of people in the passenger compartment would add weight in roughly equal proportions to the front and rear axles, because the passenger compartment is roughly centred between the axles. Even stuff in the bed of a pickup is unlikely to remove weight from the front axle unless you pile it all near the back, and then it would need to be considerably heavier than the tongue weight of your trailer to account for it being closer to the rear axle.
Third row seats and luggage compartments are behind the rear axles and when putting 3-4 thousands pounds in the back off a truck will take weight off the front axels. I'm not going to argue where the weight has to be but it can and does take weight off the front end. If someone thinks it doesn't thats an opinion and i believe is a false one.

Point is: why would you worry about 160# that is not going to effect your drivability, when we put all kinds of stuff in the rear of our TV when not towing. It's just argumentative and silly. People looking for something to argue about. From the beginning those of us that have used it, have known it works. And everyone who said it didn't has been wrong. Even can am with some crazy statements.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:46 AM   #970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Gratz View Post
If you study the axle load data reported by Bruce H. in post #563 on page 41 of this thread, you will see that
1/16" of compression caused 40# to be transferred to the TT's axles,
1/8" of compression caused 80# to be transferred to the TT's axles, and
3/16" of compression caused 100# to be transferred to the TT's axles.

Ron
I think every trailer/hitch would probably have a slightly different angle from the chains to the hitch, and therefore would load the axle differently.

Whereas a conventional bar type WD hitch is pure weight loaded on the tongue from the bars.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:21 AM   #971
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Rich, if you get your cable from the trailer parts sources you can count on it being an appropriate wire gauge but you can always bring a piece of your wire to double check. You can bet that Airstream does not make the cable but gets it from the outside market. I think you're putting too much thought into this. They are a standard industry item and should be no problem to get.

Beware they also make a 9 wire cable which is thicker and may not fit if you're passing it through any holes in frame members.

Good luck with your sourcing.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:47 AM   #972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
I think every trailer/hitch would probably have a slightly different angle from the chains to the hitch, and therefore would load the axle differently.
That might be true --
but doesn't change the fact that every WDH, including the Andersen WDH,
adds load to the TV's front axle,
removes load from the TV's rear axle, and
adds load to the trailer's axle(s).

Ron
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:53 AM   #973
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It has been an interesting topic.

There seems to be some success with the new Andersen.

There is questions on it's ability to transfer enough weight to the front axles of the TV with some combinations.

It appears to transfer only a small amount of weight to the trailer axles which may be a + or -. In our case we want weight transfer to the trailer axles.

For us our 40 year old Reese Dual Cam works very well in the 11 years we have been using it. From the info provided, in our case the Andersen would not be a suitable alternative.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:42 AM   #974
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Just by chance last week we had a good example of the difference weight transfer makes. We had some folks make an appointment to have their handling problem corrected. They were experiencing substantial sway, when following the the trailer you could see it visably swaying.

Their combination is 2001 GMC Sierra 2500, 6L gas, 4X4, Ext cab, short bed.

2012 Prime Time Lacrosse 301RLS Touring Edition, Hitch 759 lb., Dry 7,028 lb., Cargo Capacity 2,490 lb., Length 34 ft. 8 in. This is a much more challenging trailer to tow than an Airstream a tall gangly thing on leaf springs with no shocks.

When we weighed the trailer the hitch weight was actually 980 pounds so close to what many Airstreams are. The customer had an existing 1000 LB. Eaz-Lift hitch and sway controls. We strengthened the receiver on the truck so it could transfer weight and then added angle and corrected the height on the ball mount.

Be fore bringing it in the customer had the hitch done up as tight as they could without the bars contacting the frame. After we set it up they called back to say they could not beleive the difference. His wife drove it for the first time ever and they felt it was as stable as their previous fifth wheel.

These are the weights before and after our work. Sorry I do not have the weights without bars attached. This is not the change from empty to loaded but the change from a poor set up to a proper one.

Front Axle Rear Axle Trailer
Before 3180 3960 6800
After 3440 3580 6940
Change +260 - 380 + 140

So this is a full 3/4 ton truck 144" Wheelbase. I would guess that 90% of the trailers on the road if not more are towed the way he was originally set up.

Before we set it up a lane change had to be done carefully or a substantial ossolation would set up. Afterwards you could be very aggressive with a lane change and it followed quite well. The trailer wheels would be off the ground before there would be a control issue. Besides the comfort just driving along should they ever encounter an emergency situation they now have many times the depth of control. As well the ride is much more comfortable.

If they had an Anderson with the way they were originally set up I am sure they would have had less sway than they had. However still more than they have now and without the weight transfer they would not have the depth of control they now have. Of coarse an Airstream masks many of these issues but at the limits they are still factors.

I hope this helps.

Andrew T
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Morphew Axle Wts.pdf (2.44 MB, 64 views)
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:16 AM   #975
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Originally Posted by Andrew T View Post
I would guess that 90% of the trailers on the road if not more are towed the way he was originally set up.
Andy

This is one point you and I have agreed on from day one.

The principle reason being that No Dealer, with your exception as noted in the past, will take the time necessary to set up those WD hitches that have been available in the past.

That being the case the Andersen is simple enough that the average consumer can set up and maintain the Andersen. without relying on a Dealer hell bent on making money.

The comment above that one has used a Reese for 11 years, note mentioning any adjustments in that time, I have to question. I had to readjust my Reese equipment at lest twice a year because of ware, mostly in the cups.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:38 AM   #976
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Andrew T, in post 684 of this thread you show your set up with the Andersen hitch with the car 3.25" up in the front and 1/2" down at the rear. That's a lot of differential and it is clear in the photo. What is not clear on the photo is how the trailer appears to be dead level, or very close. That combination of down-in-the-rear attitude of the car and level of trailer is not possible if the hitch is set up correctly.

In an earlier post you had stated the Andersen could not transfer weight because it would just stretch the chains. That has led to great skepticism on this thread of the Andersen hitch regarding weight transfer. You have come back to present another case of weight transfer that has little to do with the Andersen hitch on the premise the Andersen cannot transfer weight.

Could we first return to your earlier post and clear that up? Would you explain the photo?

doug k
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:19 PM   #977
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Really would like to see a little more details from Andrew about how this came about: Pre-loading, use of air tools, etc.?



I run mine out to 6 threads showing for proper set up/weight transfer and get just over 1/8 inch compression. That is with it adjusted according to the Andersen supplied instructions, starting out with 2 threads showing with no load on the chains. All other reports from actual users that I have seen are about the same.

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Old 11-20-2012, 02:28 PM   #978
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If Andersen is still following this thread they might consider adopting the bumble bee as there logo. That way those who have doubts might get the message. But then again they might think the bumble bee is a Government Plot.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:22 PM   #979
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If Andersen is still following this thread they might consider adopting the bumble bee as there logo. That way those who have doubts might get the message. But then again they might think the bumble bee is a Government Plot.
Considering that a bumblebee's method of flight is inefficient, it might not be something Anderson wants to be associated with. (-:

Bumblebee flight ‘triumph of power over finesse’
‘We found that bumblebee flight is surprisingly inefficient – aerodynamically-speaking it’s as if the insect is ‘split in half’ as not only do its left and right wings flap independently but the airflow around them never joins up to help it slip through the air more easily.’
Considering that simplicity and ease of use are two of the most mentioned benefits of the Anderson, the bumblebee might not be the best mascot.

Or perhaps it's the Andersen hitch that's the government plot!
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:23 PM   #980
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Howie, I can not respond to your PM, it says you need to clean out some messages.
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