Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-20-2013, 05:57 PM   #1381
Rivet Master
 
TG Twinkie's Avatar
 
1974 Argosy 26
Morrill , Nebraska
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,828
Images: 2
Blog Entries: 5
I am keeping a close eye on this thread. As I have stated. I haven't had the problem of the latch pawl moving up. But that doesn't mean that I'm not concerned about it happening on my rig. As a matter of fact. I installed a safety chain to prevent the coupler from lifting off of the ball should the pawl mechanism fail. The safety chain was installed after reading the problems others are having.
I'm not here to defend Andersen or to knock Atwood. I am here because I don't want to have a catastrophic failure on the road.
I am still trying to figure out. How the pawl climbs above the largest diameter of the ball when hitched. When hitched up and locked. I look under the coupler to make sure I can see the bottom of the pawl. And to make sure it is even with the bottom edge of the socket inside the coupler. From everything I can see, the concave portion of the pawl is matched to the convex portion of the ball. There is no room inside the coupler where the pawl can move back in order to ride up on the ball. But, just because I can't see it doesn't mean it can't or won't happen.
I have two trailers; a utility trailer with a Franklin coupler and the Argosy with a Marvel coupler. To me, they look identical. Neither has the notch in the pawl lift bar. And neither has the "fin" (as some have called it) with the tip that is to prevent the lift bar from moving up.
I don't use the Andersen on the utility trailer, only the Argosy. On both trailers I have always had to stand on the bumper of the TV to get the ball to drop out. I still have to do that on the Argosy after the Andersen installation. When the ball releases the pawl is below the bottom edge of the coupler socket maybe 1/4" to 3/8", which allows the ball to drop out of the socket. I don't have an Atwood coupler to compare. I would like to know if there is a difference internally between the Marvel and the Atwood.
__________________

__________________
Knowledge: "A gift to be shared. A treasure to receive."
TG Twinkie is offline  
Old 02-20-2013, 06:55 PM   #1382
Rivet Master
 
TG Twinkie's Avatar
 
1974 Argosy 26
Morrill , Nebraska
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,828
Images: 2
Blog Entries: 5
Here are some pics of the pawl in different positions. With the hitch latched and unlatched. You can see that in the latched position, the pawl is even with the bottom of the coupler. In the unlatched position the pawl is below the coupler. there is also a shot of the safety chain between the hitch plate, over the tongue.




http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/...itch/photo.jpg
__________________

__________________
Knowledge: "A gift to be shared. A treasure to receive."
TG Twinkie is offline  
Old 02-20-2013, 06:58 PM   #1383
Rivet Master
 
MrUKToad's Avatar
 
2011 28' International
Chatham , Ontario
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,376
Images: 17
Blog Entries: 13
Could the solution to the coupler problem be as simple as applying some grease to the pawl? There's obviously some small movement within the coupler housing whilst underway, and maybe that's causing the ball to push the pawl upwards. Add some grease and the ball shouldn't be able to get any grip on the one moveable part.

Just a thought.....
__________________
Steve; also known as Mr UK Toad

"You can't tow that with that!"

http://toadsoftowedhaul.com
MrUKToad is offline  
Old 02-20-2013, 08:04 PM   #1384
Rivet Master
 
1974 Argosy 20
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Kooskia , Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,591
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUKToad View Post
Could the solution to the coupler problem be as simple as applying some grease to the pawl? There's obviously some small movement within the coupler housing whilst underway, and maybe that's causing the ball to push the pawl upwards. Add some grease and the ball shouldn't be able to get any grip on the one moveable part.

Just a thought.....
I have the Andersen, a new Atwood coupler, and always use a small amount of white grease on the ball due to the slight pitch and yaw movement, even when hooked up properly. I have not had any issues at all with mine, probably 7000 miles on it to date. I have no idea if what you say is right, but it does fit my experience as of now.
idroba is offline  
Old 02-20-2013, 11:47 PM   #1385
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,827
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 55
Hi, I don't have an Andersen hitch, but I do have an Attwood coupler. After investigating this, coupler versus hitch dilemma, I think that I may have found a solution. I used what I call mechanic's micrometers. [wrenches and drill bits] I found that my lock has about a 9/32" shaft, the hole in the latch lever is about 11/32", and the hole in the fin is about 23/64". When closed, my 11/32" drill bit holds the latch solidly in place. With my little lock in place, I can take my pocket screwdriver and almost move the lever enough to disconnect it from the fin.

Well, see my pictures.

I think the answer is to drill the latch and fin holes out to 3/8" and find a lock with a 3/8" shaft.

(1.) Latch with lock installed and pocket screwdriver prying the arm from the fin. Almost at a release point.

(2.) Latched with a 11/32" drill bit in the latch and fin holes.

(3.) Prying on the arm, with pocket screwdriver, with 11/32" drill bit in the holes. The arm will not move like in the first picture.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	007RS.jpg
Views:	118
Size:	133.2 KB
ID:	179462   Click image for larger version

Name:	003RS.jpg
Views:	107
Size:	233.9 KB
ID:	179463  

Click image for larger version

Name:	005RS.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	128.3 KB
ID:	179464  
__________________
Bob

2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent"
[ Small Silver Castle ]
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:15 AM   #1386
Rivet Master
 
TG Twinkie's Avatar
 
1974 Argosy 26
Morrill , Nebraska
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,828
Images: 2
Blog Entries: 5
I think you are on to something. Could it really be that simple? I will look at the Marvel coupler tomorrow and compare the holes.
__________________
Knowledge: "A gift to be shared. A treasure to receive."
TG Twinkie is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:22 AM   #1387
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,827
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by TG Twinkie View Post
I think you are on to something. Could it really be that simple? I will look at the Marvel coupler tomorrow and compare the holes.
Hi, yes, I think it could be; Look at floridalarry's picture.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	coupler.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	95.8 KB
ID:	179466  
__________________
Bob

2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent"
[ Small Silver Castle ]
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 05:08 AM   #1388
Rivet Master
 
noreen&sal's Avatar
 
1981 27' Excella II
mays landing , South Jersey
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,179
Images: 9
I think that is a solution whether or not you use an Anderson. I'll be checking mine as soon as it gets light out. Sal
__________________
Sal & Nora
Let us live so that when we die even the undertaker will be sorry. Mark Twain
AIR 42483
TAC N.J. 17
WBCCI 24740
noreen&sal is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 09:16 AM   #1389
Rivet Master
 
TG Twinkie's Avatar
 
1974 Argosy 26
Morrill , Nebraska
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,828
Images: 2
Blog Entries: 5
As I said in my previous post. I'm not defending Andersen or knocking Atwood. I'm just trying to get to the root of the problem. Also to see if there is a difference between the Marvel and Atwood couplers.
I am into SAFETY as well. That's the reason for the chain over the "A" frame. Belt and suspenders, so to speak.
__________________
Knowledge: "A gift to be shared. A treasure to receive."
TG Twinkie is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 09:33 AM   #1390
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,037
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Hi, I don't have an Andersen hitch, but I do have an Attwood coupler. After investigating this, coupler versus hitch dilemma, I think that I may have found a solution. I used what I call mechanic's micrometers. [wrenches and drill bits] I found that my lock has about a 9/32" shaft, the hole in the latch lever is about 11/32", and the hole in the fin is about 23/64". When closed, my 11/32" drill bit holds the latch solidly in place. With my little lock in place, I can take my pocket screwdriver and almost move the lever enough to disconnect it from the fin.

Well, see my pictures.

I think the answer is to drill the latch and fin holes out to 3/8" and find a lock with a 3/8" shaft.

(1.) Latch with lock installed and pocket screwdriver prying the arm from the fin. Almost at a release point.

(2.) Latched with a 11/32" drill bit in the latch and fin holes.

(3.) Prying on the arm, with pocket screwdriver, with 11/32" drill bit in the holes. The arm will not move like in the first picture.
While this may postpone the problem in that it makes and stronger contact point between the latch and the shark fin it will not eliminate the eventual failure of the Shark fin. I did drill out my latch and shark fin after the initial failure attempting to get a closer contact between them. It did not work.

Those of you lucky enough to live and camp in states with smooth roads will not encounter this issue as soon or as often as those of us that travel the rougher roads. This problem is a result of impact pounding from rough roads.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 09:40 AM   #1391
Rivet Master
 
AWCHIEF's Avatar
 
2006 23' Safari SE
Biloxi , Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,278
Images: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pnr View Post
I am surprised many are making excuses for the anderson. With the kind of problems showing up, this hitch seems to be a very big safety risk.

Hensley and propride combined dont have these kind of reports. Is the possibility of a trailer coming loose really worth saving a few bucks ??
I don't think anyone is making excuses for the Andersen system. It is simply a case of many users here are not having the issues that some are experiencing. You make it sound like no one has ever had a problem with either the Hensley or the proride hitches. Not so, do some research here and other sites and you will find plenty of complaints with both those designs. Personally I don’t believe that it is a problem in the Andersen design. I believe it is a matter of poor quality of materials used in the Attwood couplers. The old Marvel couplers were built like tanks. Mine is 49 years old and appears as tight and solid as the day it was made. No cracks, worn holes or any other defects that I can see after close observation. The 2 inch Andersen ball fits so tight that I also have to jump the receiver to get it to release.
__________________
MICHAEL

Do you know what a learning experience is? A learning experience is one of those things that says "You know that thing that you just did? Don't do that."
AWCHIEF is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 09:40 AM   #1392
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,037
Images: 12
I have replaced my Atwood coupler with a Quikebite before heading home and will post on that replacement but would ask if anyone knows how to insert picture within the text rather than all of the pictures appearing at the end of the text
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 10:01 AM   #1393
Rivet Master
 
SteveH's Avatar
 
2005 39' Land Yacht 390 XL 396
Common Sense , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pnr View Post
I am surprised many are making excuses for the anderson. With the kind of problems showing up, this hitch seems to be a very big safety risk.

Hensley and propride combined dont have these kind of reports. Is the possibility of a trailer coming loose really worth saving a few bucks ??
I think you will find, in WD hitches like everything else, nothing is perfect. I have a ProPride, and while it really is an excellent hitch, it is not perfect either.

The down side of the ProPride and Hensley, in addition to cost, is the weight. My ProPride is in excess of 200 pounds. (In some instances this is the break point in towing with a 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton truck) Also, in some instances of angled drives into a camping spot, I have had a devil of a time getting rehitched, and I hear the Hensley is even worse.

I also have an Andersen on a smaller 17' Casita, and it's great. Personally, I believe the problems that Airstream/Andersen users are having is a result of the type of latching mechanism that is used in the Atwood hitches, not the Andersen.
__________________
Regards,
Steve
SteveH is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 10:52 AM   #1394
4 Rivet Member
 
Rich of SCal's Avatar
 
2012 16' Sport
San Bernardino , California
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 443
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUKToad View Post
Could the solution to the coupler problem be as simple as applying some grease to the pawl? There's obviously some small movement within the coupler housing whilst underway, and maybe that's causing the ball to push the pawl upwards. Add some grease and the ball shouldn't be able to get any grip on the one moveable part.

Just a thought.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich of SCal View Post
All things considered I wonder if it might be a good idea to put a light coat of grease on the back of the ball to minimize any friction caused by vibration between the ball and the latch. Just a thought.
That was my thought as well.
Rich of SCal is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:32 PM   #1395
2 Rivet Member
 
2013 25' Flying Cloud
san mateo , California
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 72
A Message To Andersen

It seems only fitting that Andersen would make their own coupler for their hitch. They make money on both while giving us the benefits of their neat hitch. That make sense to me because of the unique way of WD that their hitch does it. The couplers available today especially the Atwood with that latch shoe being on the rear is vulnerable to movement as it’s where most of the WD of the Andersen is placed. Andersen being in the business could fabricated a coupler that will take the WD forces more efficiently and locking in the ball and coupler as a one-unit-system without grease. The world of couplers wasn’t such an issue for me till the Andersen . So a message to Andersen, "mate your trailer hitch with your own coupler and it’s a win, win situation. Make money on both and guarantying the growth of a revolutionary neat hitch". At least endorse
couplers that may work from the testing that they‘ve done. Otherwise we continue to be the guinea pigs.

Perhaps we’ll get a discount if such a coupler was made by Andersen, but not holding my breath.
dmand001 is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 01:52 PM   #1396
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,037
Images: 12
OK I have been off line for a while while traveling and here is an update.

As noted my Atwood coupler failed by shearing off the stop on the shark fin at top the coupler allowing the pawl to ride up the incline and released the latch causing the only thing holding the trailer to the TV was the tongue weight. Yes I am aware that Andersen is looking into a possible mode to the Atwood coupler I could not risk traveling north to the bumpy roads of New Jersey lest the trailer might come off while traveling. I decided to install a Quickbite coupler before heading north.

Unless a solution to this problem is forthcoming ALL Atwood coupler will eventually fail in this manor. It is only a matter of road conditions and mileage traveled.

The first picture is the mark out as to where to cut off the Atwood coupling. Note I do not suggest removing All of the Atwood for reasons to be noted later.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Quickbite 001.jpg
Views:	182
Size:	314.0 KB
ID:	179498

Once the front of the Atwood has been removed clean up any rough edges. Note the upper and lower jack stand holes are left in place and will be used.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Quickbite 003.jpg
Views:	169
Size:	339.9 KB
ID:	179499

Place the Quickbite on in such a way as to aline the jack stand holes. Put the jack in place to be sure every thing will fit. Temporally bolt the jack in place.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Quickbite 015.jpg
Views:	129
Size:	274.2 KB
ID:	179503

Your will now note that the Quickbite done not fit tight to the A frame of the trailer while in this position. If you were to move the Quickbite back against the A frame the jack stand holes would not line up and if installed in that position there will be conflicts with the bottle cover.

You can now see there is a gap along the lower edge of the coupler to the A frame. Cut and tack weld angle irons to the A frame along the lower edge of the angle iron.

Note the angles held in place with vice gripes for tack welding.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Quickbite 008.jpg
Views:	171
Size:	268.3 KB
ID:	179501

Remove the jack and finish welding the angle irons is place being sure to weld the top edge to the frame.

Temporally reinstall the jack to be sure things still fit and tack the coupler in place. Remove the jack and finish welding the coupler in place making sure to weld the front vertical and horizontal edge of the frame is welded to the coupler. Some filler material may be used to fill the gap along the back edge od the coupler.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Quickbite 016.jpg
Views:	133
Size:	370.4 KB
ID:	179504

As it turns out the offset in the 2 different couplers with respect to the jack holes is such that adding a chain coupling and no changes in the brackets


Made it home.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Quickbite 005.jpg
Views:	90
Size:	290.8 KB
ID:	179500   Click image for larger version

Name:	Quickbite 013.jpg
Views:	105
Size:	257.5 KB
ID:	179502  

__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 01:57 PM   #1397
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,827
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
While this may postpone the problem in that it makes and stronger contact point between the latch and the shark fin it will not eliminate the eventual failure of the Shark fin. I did drill out my latch and shark fin after the initial failure attempting to get a closer contact between them. It did not work.

Those of you lucky enough to live and camp in states with smooth roads will not encounter this issue as soon or as often as those of us that travel the rougher roads. This problem is a result of impact pounding from rough roads.

Hi, did it not work because the parts involved were already damaged?
__________________
Bob

2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent"
[ Small Silver Castle ]
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 02:10 PM   #1398
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,037
Images: 12
Picture of added chain link.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Quickbite 001.jpg
Views:	95
Size:	351.7 KB
ID:	179506  
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 02:12 PM   #1399
Rivet Master
 
HowieE's Avatar
 
1991 34' Excella
Princeton , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,037
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Hi, did it not work because the parts involved were already damaged?
Yes.

I had hoped to get a second chance grip on the fin but it was too far gone.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles

HowieE is offline  
Old 02-21-2013, 02:13 PM   #1400
4 Rivet Member
 
1987 25' Sovereign
Oregon , Ohio
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
OK I have been off line for a while while traveling and here is an update.

As noted my Atwood coupler failed by shearing off the stop on the shark fin at top the coupler allowing the pawl to ride up the incline and released the latch causing the only thing holding the trailer to the TV was the tongue weight. Yes I am aware that Andersen is looking into a possible mode to the Atwood coupler I could not risk traveling north to the bumpy roads of New Jersey lest the trailer might come off while traveling. I decided to install a Quickbite coupler before heading north.

Unless a solution to this problem is forthcoming ALL Atwood coupler will eventually fail in this manor. It is only a matter of road conditions and mileage traveled.

The first picture is the mark out as to where to cut off the Atwood coupling. Note I do not suggest removing All of the Atwood for reasons to be noted later.
Attachment 179498

Once the front of the Atwood has been removed clean up any rough edges. Note the upper and lower jack stand holes are left in place and will be used.
Attachment 179499

Place the Quickbite on in such a way as to aline the jack stand holes. Put the jack in place to be sure every thing will fit. Temporally bolt the jack in place.
Attachment 179503

Your will now note that the Quickbite done not fit tight to the A frame of the trailer while in this position. If you were to move the Quickbite back against the A frame the jack stand holes would not line up and if installed in that position there will be conflicts with the bottle cover.

You can now see there is a gap along the lower edge of the coupler to the A frame. Cut and tack weld angle irons to the A frame along the lower edge of the angle iron.

Note the angles held in place with vice gripes for tack welding.
Attachment 179501

Remove the jack and finish welding the angle irons is place being sure to weld the top edge to the frame.

Temporally reinstall the jack to be sure things still fit and tack the coupler in place. Remove the jack and finish welding the coupler in place making sure to weld the front vertical and horizontal edge of the frame is welded to the coupler. Some filler material may be used to fill the gap along the back edge od the coupler.
Attachment 179504

As it turns out the offset in the 2 different couplers with respect to the jack holes is such that adding a chain coupling and no changes in the brackets


Made it home.
OK now that you made it back to New Jersey, How do you like the Quickbite and the Quickbite Andersen combo?
__________________

msmcv51 is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.