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Old 11-19-2012, 10:15 AM   #939
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Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
OK here are the scale results for my 34 ft trailer and my Ford Excursion. The tests were do with just field adjustments to the Andersen, in that I had removed my original setting achieved by fender measurements and just set the hitch by eye.
The Excursion is a heavily sprung truck and thus transfer of weight to the front axle will be harder than many lighter sprung trucks. None the less these weights clearly indicate that weight has been transferred.

Truck alone

Front axle 4220
Rear axle 4200

Combination
without
Andersen

Front axle 3920
Rear axle 5120


With Andersen

Front axle 4040
Rear axle 5000

In this case the Andersen placed 120 lbs on the front axle. While 180 less the the dry front axle weight it has clearly placed weight forward. Additional weight could be move forward if additional tension was placed on the chains but this produces good driving characteristics for the Excursion.

At the same time the Andersen reduced the rear axle weight by 120 lbs.

I did not weigh the trailer tongue by itself because that would have required a third bass across the scale and disconnecting while on the scale and traffic on the scale was heavy with commercial rigs that day. None the less the weights show transfer to the TV countering those that claim it could not be
Howie.

The numbers say that your hitch is not doing it's intended job.

A proper hitch, properly installed, and properly adjusted should never ever take weight off the front axle.

Using the weights you posted, the front axle with the trailer and the hitch hooked up, should weigh 4530 and the rear axle should weigh 4510.

You have 620 pounds your dealing with yet you place all of it on the rear axle plus an additional 180 pounds you removed from the front axle.

That says the hitch is doing very little.

Not faulting the hitch, but perhaps the adjustment needs further attention.

Andy
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:17 AM   #940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
Truck alone

Front axle 4220
Rear axle 4200

Combination
without
Andersen

Front axle 3920
Rear axle 5120


With Andersen

Front axle 4040
Rear axle 5000
Two things jump out at me looking at these numbers.
  1. The weight of your TV only increased by 620 lbs when the trailer was attached with no wd. I would have expected that number to be higher with a 34 footer.
  2. The total weight of the TV did not change when the wd was applied. The hitch did transfer some weight from the rear to the front axle, but none was transferred back to the trailer.
It would be interesting to see if weight would be transferred to the trailer if the wd was adjusted with more tension on the chains.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:43 AM   #941
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This would not work because the chain MOVES within the tube when you have changes in elevations adding or lessening the tension on the bushings. While this movement is slight it would cause a hard stop to the chains if the bolt touched the limit of the chain loop in either direction.
Which is actually why I thought it WOULD work. If the bolt is skinny enough it would still allow some movement, just as the square tube does. The bolt would go through the center of the link hole. Anyway, it's academic. The only reason I suggested it was to save him from redoing his custom bracket, but he seems willing to redo it. Probably the better choice.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:41 AM   #942
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Originally Posted by azflycaster View Post
Two things jump out at me looking at these numbers.
  1. The weight of your TV only increased by 620 lbs when the trailer was attached with no wd. I would have expected that number to be higher with a 34 footer.
  2. The total weight of the TV did not change when the wd was applied. The hitch did transfer some weight from the rear to the front axle, but none was transferred back to the trailer.
It would be interesting to see if weight would be transferred to the trailer if the wd was adjusted with more tension on the chains.
I think because of the difference in the way the Andersen hitch works, and DOES NOT apply a downward force on the tongue of the trailer, like a conventional bar type WD system, a transfer of weight back onto the trailer will not happen.

And, I see this as a good thing because it does not put additional loading on the tongue of the trailer.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:55 AM   #943
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We need more scale numbers from Andersen users to evaluate. thnxs
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:16 PM   #944
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If Howie's trailer is level and there is not enough weight transferred to the truck front axles, you can't just keep cranking on the chain tensioners because that would cause the rear of the truck and the front of the trailer to both raise (if you don't blow out the urethane bushing using this improper method).

You must disconnect it, lower the ball position on the stinger, hook it up without dropping ANY weight of the ball, apply tension to the chains, then raise the hitch jack to put the weight on the ball. You do this until you have the desired weight transfer to the truck front axle (this may not be entirely possible with some heavy suspension or loaded trucks regardless of the hitch brand) and the trailer is level.

That's all there is to it. That's the sweet spot and is simply repeated by counting the threads on the chain tensioner or measuring the compressed length of the urethane bushings (my preference). The tension is always applied with no weight on the ball; that is, with the hitch jack down.

doug k
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:18 PM   #945
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Hi Rich, yesterday you asked about purchasing new cable to re-do yours after damaging it during installation. Check your area for a supplier for trailer parts ( big truck trailers) and just ask them to cut you a length of 7 wire cable. It's a standard item and should be readily available. On my older trailer I also got a junction box and mounted the cable outside of the frame and that worked nicely. On this current trailer I was forwarned about the cable in the frame and with caution was able to drill it without damaging it.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:26 PM   #946
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Originally Posted by Rich of SCal View Post
Which is actually why I thought it WOULD work. If the bolt is skinny enough it would still allow some movement, just as the square tube does. The bolt would go through the center of the link hole. Anyway, it's academic. The only reason I suggested it was to save him from redoing his custom bracket, but he seems willing to redo it. Probably the better choice.
The likelihood you could repeatedly place a bolt of any size in the Center of a chain like is near zero. Consider the dia. a bolt and the open space of a chain link thre just is not enough room there.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:34 PM   #947
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Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Howie.
Using the weights you posted, the front axle with the trailer and the hitch hooked up, should weigh 4530 and the rear axle should weigh 4510.

You have 620 pounds your dealing with yet you place all of it on the rear axle plus an additional 180 pounds you removed from the front axle.

Andy
You will note I stated that these weights were take with field adjustments and not the result of fender measurements as I frequently suggest. That said No hitch would ever SPLIT the trailer weight equally between the 2 TV axles. That would destroy the steering geometry of the TV.

Yes I could do additional adjustments to increase the weight on the front axle but 180 lbs over the accuracy of the scales is well within reasonable limits and the TV handles fine, No Sway, No Porpoising, No Noise, and 1 Minuit hook ups and disconnects.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:57 PM   #948
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
I think because of the difference in the way the Andersen hitch works, and DOES NOT apply a downward force on the tongue of the trailer, like a conventional bar type WD system, a transfer of weight back onto the trailer will not happen.

And, I see this as a good thing because it does not put additional loading on the tongue of the trailer.
I believe that this is correct, the Andersen does not put weight back on the trailer axle as a conventional WD hitch does. But I have no data to show that.

I wish I had been able to get my Argosy with it's 700# hitch weight to the scales after I got my Andersen hitch, but I did not, and now it is put away for the winter. My main problem is that it is a 220 mile round trip to the scales, and I generally don't take the trailer in that direction.

Another reason to wish for spring.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:13 PM   #949
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
I think because of the difference in the way the Andersen hitch works, and DOES NOT apply a downward force on the tongue of the trailer, like a conventional bar type WD system, a transfer of weight back onto the trailer will not happen.

And, I see this as a good thing because it does not put additional loading on the tongue of the trailer.
Actually the Andersen has the same effect on the trailer that other WD hitches have. In this case the weight transferred to trailer was 2o lbs.
17,220 vs. 17,200 lbs.

The only reason I can suggest for the light tongue weight, 640 lbs., is the fact that I had a weekend of black and gray water on, both behind the center axle, no freshwater on and one empty gas bottle and 1/4 in the other.

It all comes down to this. Considering the 40 plus years I towed with WD hitches, one of which I modified the trailer to accept a WD after the manufacture of the trailer, tongue surge brakes system manufacture, and Reese told me it could not be done, the Andersen tops them all. I accept that some will not accept this but please stop trying to convince me it does not work. Concentrate your efforts on the bumble bee because you might get through to him.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:05 PM   #950
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You know I was just thinking.

If my tongue weight was only 640 lbs. on the way home this weekend and I was towing with one of those other hitches that want 10 to 12% of the trailer weight on the tongue I might not have made it home. I might have gone into uncontrollable swaying and lost it.

Just think another unexpected factor for the hitch.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:19 PM   #951
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Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
Actually the Andersen has the same effect on the trailer that other WD hitches have. In this case the weight transferred to trailer was 2o lbs.
17,220 vs. 17,200 lbs.
20 pounds is probably the repeat accuracy of a commercial cat scale.
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:25 PM   #952
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20 pounds is probably the repeat accuracy of a commercial cat scale.
Yes Steve you hit the nail on the head.

I called Cat's home office earlier today and asked what the accuracy of the scale was in this weight range. They said they hold +/- 20lbs throughout the range of the scale.

Now given that if my weight with the hitch was 20 lbs low and my weight without the hitch was 20 lbs heavy you could also say the transfer to the trailer was 60lbs.

It doesn't matter. The question all along has been could the Andersen transfer "ANY" weight to the front axle of the TV. The weight on the front axle are clearly beyond the accuracy of the scale. How much is now is in the adjustments and vehicles spring ratings.

And the bee still flies.
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