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Old 06-07-2012, 09:56 AM   #57
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There have been several comment that the Andersen put a REARWARD force on the coupling. If that were the case there would be no way the hitch could accomplish WD. The chains exert a rearward force on the bottom of the shaft. In order for that force to result in WD the ball has to be forced forward in the coupling resulting in a contact point within the coupling slightly forward of that from all other WD hitches. WD is the result of forces applied to rotate the receiver clockwise when viewed from the passengers side.
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:05 AM   #58
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By forcing more weight onto the front axle. Aren't you in effect jacking the back of the TV up and preventing any downward movement with the WD hitch?
The WD prevents any downward movement of either the TV rear end or the trailer front end. Within the limits of the spring bars of course. But what prevents the rear end and trailer tongue from rising? Other than tongue weight.
When the rig goes over a convex bump instead of a concave bump, this puts a force in the upward direction on the ball relieving the tension. In this case the WD is ineffective until the TV and trailer are straddle of the convex bump.
Is this a correct assumption?
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:08 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
The video, while nice, is a sales product built by Andersen to sell their hitch.

If you understand the Andersen puts force on the "A" frame toward the front, and a bar type WD hitch puts force on the "A" frame downward, there should be no more argument or discussion of the force applied to the coupler.
The video shows exactly what happens with a WD hitch. it doesn't matter if it is used for sales or not. The forces are the same.

But the bar type don't put the force downward if it did that it would just put more weight on the top of the ball and thus push the front of the TV up not down.

When you pull up on the bar putting downward pressure on your frame you are pulling laterally on the bar at the bottom of the hitch, the same way as the chains of the Andersen do, but without the downward pressure on the frame. I know it is hard concept to grasp because it would seem it is putting pressure in different spots but it's not. it took my awhile to understand. look up some videos on how WD work. it might become more clear.
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:09 AM   #60
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Hmm..... lots to think about. I'll follow this thread closely.
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:31 AM   #61
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The coupler discussion is around a static condition of the hitch assembly. When the tow vehicle starts towing, it seems much of the pressure is then on the forward side of the coupler.

TG Twinkie also comments on the rig moving, but how going over uneven roadways (where do you find them?) changes the amount of weight distribution applied. This would be true of all of them, but the Andersen would not amplify it because the movement is absorbed by compression bushings, rather than spring bars?

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Old 06-07-2012, 11:33 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purman;1157807
When you pull up on the bar putting downward pressure on your frame you are pulling laterally on the bar at the bottom of the hitch, the same way as the chains of the Andersen do, but without the downward pressure on the frame. I know it is hard concept to grasp because it would seem it is putting pressure in different spots [B
but it's not[/B]. it took my awhile to understand. look up some videos on how WD work. it might become more clear.
Yes, the resulting action on the hitch head with a bar system is a twisting force that moves the trailer tongue weight foward on the tow vehicle, and a small amount rearward back onto the trailer. However, the main force of the bars is in a downward angle onto the trailer "A" frame, and must result in an additional downward force on the ball at the coupler.

Again, the Andersen does not put a force downward onto the "A" frame, but pulls the frame foward onto the ball, which the coupler sees as a force against the latching mechanism.

Yes, the result of the force at the hitch head is the same twisting force with is applied to move the tongue weight foward. BUT, the force at the coupler is trying to pull the coupler foward, witch must be sustained by the coupler locking mechanism.

While the result of the weight being tranferred forward on the tow vehicle, the load at the coupler is different. It is being pulled forward, while with a bar system it is being pulled down. Sorry, no if's ands, or but's.
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Old 06-07-2012, 12:05 PM   #63
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The thread was to be about actual user experience, and I soon will be one who can contribute to that information. I just ordered an Andersen from Hitch Source.com for $425 with free shipping. BTW, all the discussion on the theory that has been posted was very helpful for me to make the decision to purchase. Thanks to everyone who has put their thoughts down. Still, the proof will be in the use experience over time.

Since I needed a new shank with a longer drop for my existing Reese/Drawtight hitches, and since I have not purchased a new hitch since 1978 (My Reese has been a lot of miles) I thought I would go for this lighter weight unit. The new Reese shank would cost me close to $150 alone, so my investment will be an additional $275.

Reminds me of the song "A little less talk, and a lot more action" Grin.

My setup should be interesting, as I have a 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the full Air Suspension system, and some of you may have seen my posts on making that rig work right with my conventional Reese/Drawtight systems. I do not tow a long trailer, but my 20' Argosy does have a very heavy hitch weight of over 700#.

They say it should be here by mid week and the weather may be finally turning out good by then, time for a nice test run to Glacier National Park and Western Montana.

More to follow.
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Old 06-07-2012, 12:40 PM   #64
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Thanks Idroba...

I for one am looking forward to your input here. When I buy something like this and bring it home.. install it.. then stare at it for about 3 hours thinking about its function I often have more insight and im sure thats what your experience is going to be. The coupler discussion is also interesting. Im sure the manufacture must have thought about this and it would be awesome if they had some data to share.
Real world testing will be the proof. I purchased the airsafe hitch a few years ago and can still brag about its operation and concept. Its a good product with a proven track record. It would be great if this product proves to be the same.

Thanks for the good discussion on this guys.

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Old 06-07-2012, 12:53 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
Yes, the resulting action on the hitch head with a bar system is a twisting force that moves the trailer tongue weight foward on the tow vehicle, and a small amount rearward back onto the trailer. However, the main force of the bars is in a downward angle onto the trailer "A" frame, and must result in an additional downward force on the ball at the coupler.

Again, the Andersen does not put a force downward onto the "A" frame, but pulls the frame foward onto the ball, which the coupler sees as a force against the latching mechanism.

Yes, the result of the force at the hitch head is the same twisting force with is applied to move the tongue weight foward. BUT, the force at the coupler is trying to pull the coupler foward, witch must be sustained by the coupler locking mechanism.

While the result of the weight being tranferred forward on the tow vehicle, the load at the coupler is different. It is being pulled forward, while with a bar system it is being pulled down. Sorry, no if's ands, or but's.
Sorry I totally disagree and I dont' think you really uderstand how either work but thats my opinion based on how a WD works, and you have yours which is a different view of how they work IF a bar system pulls down and weights the ball it wouldn't work. Sorry, no if's ands, or but's.

I'm happy to disagree.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:00 PM   #66
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Ok, I put a call into Andersen, SO when they call me back we can put the coupler issue to rest as to whether it will put more pressure on the lock or not. I'll let you know when I here form them.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:00 PM   #67
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Quote:
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Sorry I totally disagree and I dont' think you really uderstand how either work but thats my opinion based on how a WD works, and you have yours which is a different view of how they work IF a bar system pulls down and weights the ball it wouldn't work. Sorry, no if's ands, or but's.

I'm happy to disagree.
Purman,

Please read again all of my previous post....I said, "Yes, the result of the force at the hitch head is the same twisting force witch is applied to move the tongue weight foward."

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, if you put a downward force on the "A" frame, it will show up as more weight at the coupler. If you put a "pulling foward" force at the "A" frame, it will show up as a foward force at the coupler.

I'm sorry you don't see that, but it's the simple facts of the matter.

And, I've been RV trailering since '71, got my first WD hitch in '76, have had many different hitches in the interum (but no Andersen), have successfully setup all of them, so I do know how a WD hitch works and the different forces that are in play.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:10 PM   #68
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Idroba, I'm glad you are taking the plunge. I've made some drawings and understand the directional forces now. I think the mitigating factof for the ball is there will be no wear.I would not use a lever latch and go with a knob screw down. If these work and are safe they will indeed change things. Has anybody done a measurement as far as opening hatch doors. I like the Hensley because the increased length of the set up allows me to open the hatch on my Tahoe. Maybe this is a question for Andersen.

Dan
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:11 PM   #69
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Lets see what Anderson come's back with.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:17 PM   #70
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Dan, The rear hatch on my Nissan Xterra opens and closes with plenty of clearance when hooked up. I usually have my hatch open when backing into position to hook up.
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